MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by shadowraiths, Apr 20, 2015.

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  1. corundogs

    corundogs Active Member

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    BBM. No, homicide does not mean murder. However, it wasn't ruled accidental or suicide. Which means someone (or something?) is responsible for his death other than himself.

    Right?
     


  2. DebinGA

    DebinGA New Member

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  3. krimekat

    krimekat Amazed and Baffled

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    Post 901

    Very telling IMHO that "formers" are speaking out against the Mayor & SA -- but this has become really sad
     
  4. katydid23

    katydid23 Well-Known Member

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    "So in a medical examiner’s report “homicide” just means one person intentionally did something that led to the death of someone else. It doesn’t mean the death was intentional and it doesn’t mean it was a crime."

    http://time.com/3618279/eric-garner-chokehold-crime-staten-island-daniel-pantaleo/
     
  5. DebinGA

    DebinGA New Member

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    Goodson was the only one charged with second degree murder, which includes an "intentional" aspect iirc.

    Several other officers, including I think the other black officers, were charged with manslaughter, which I believe means the killing was accidental and without an intent to harm, much less kill.

    It will be interesting to see what Goodson does now. I believe I read he was the only one of the six who didn't give a statement to LE.
     
  6. corundogs

    corundogs Active Member

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    OK wait. So if you do something intentionally that leads to the death of someone, it isn't a crime?
     
  7. DebinGA

    DebinGA New Member

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    Iirc Mosby did a clean sweep of the old guard in that office, when she became SA. She had worked in that office previously, left to work for a big insurance company until she ran for SA. The ones fired were likely closely associated with the person she defeated in the recent election ... or she wanted to reward her friends and put in people she trusted to support her on her "justice by any and all means necessary" journey.
     
  8. SStarr33

    SStarr33 Inactive

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    Homicide just means a person killed another person justified or unjustified.
     
  9. katydid23

    katydid23 Well-Known Member

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    But not if your intention was not to harm anyone. If I intentionally left someone 'unbuckled' because I was afraid for my own safety, and that person died, my 'not buckling' may have led to their death, but their death was unintentional. It may mean a charge of involuntary manslaughter, but not a charge of homicide.
     
  10. corundogs

    corundogs Active Member

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    OK. That makes sense. Self defense would still be a homicide.

    I am not sure I can make a leap in this case, that FG did something that would make his death justified. But we will see!
     
  11. corundogs

    corundogs Active Member

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    And that makes sense. However, him just being unbuckled in the back of that van did not cause his death, IMO. But this is a road that has been traveled many times already...and we all know how it ends.
     
  12. katydid23

    katydid23 Well-Known Member

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    I am just so curious about why this particular 'ride' led to a death. I think they left many arrestees unbuckled in the van. Why did FG die when hundreds of others did not?
     
  13. SStarr33

    SStarr33 Inactive

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    Good questions, but make that thousands or maybe even tens of thousands.
     
  14. sonjay

    sonjay Well-Known Member

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    Self-defense is a classic example of doing something intentionally that leads to the death of someone, but it's not a crime.

    Surgeons cut people open, and sometimes it leads to the patient's death. Sometimes it's malpractice (i.e., civil liability), and sometimes it's just a tragedy that's no one's fault. But it's not a crime.

    A baseball player goes to bat and hits the ball hard. He does so intentionally. It impacts another player in the chest, who has a previously undiagnosed heart problem and who dies as a result. It's a tragedy, but not a crime. (Yes, this has happened.)

    There are lots and lots of things that people do intentionally that lead to someone's death. Not all of them are crimes.

    Of course, no one is claiming that this case was self-defense, or medical malpractice or baseball. My examples above are merely examples of intentional acts leading to death that are not crimes.

    I'm very very interested to learn what evidence Ms. Mosby has that led her to charge Ofc. Goodson with those specific charges. If there were acts that were intended to lead to death or injury to Mr. Gray, I hope that the officer(s) who committed such acts are convicted. That's never acceptable — not if it's an inner city criminal with a long rap sheet any more than if it's a rich corporate executive living in a multimillion-dollar estate.
     
  15. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    Millions of people have used treadmill (myself included) and lived to tell about it. But a husband of facebook COO recently fell off one, hit his head and died. Sometimes all it takes is a freak accident.
     
  16. sonjay

    sonjay Well-Known Member

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    Is it possible that Freddie Gray's death was just such a freak accident?

    Does the prosecution have to prove that it was not such a freak accident? Or is it enough to prove that he went into the van alive and died within days after coming out of the van? Is that enough to convict law enforcement officers of the murder and manslaughter charges?
     
  17. bettybaby00

    bettybaby00 Active Member

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    I
    My understanding of all the legal expert talking heads is that for a murder charge the state is going to have to put forth a "theory" of what happened. And, again based on talking head comments, the info Mosby outlines in her press conference is not even close for a conviction.

    It seems she has set herself up for a very difficult task. She not only has to offer a plausible explanation of what happened, but she also has to show there was intent.

    Time will tell.
     
  18. branwynbreeze

    branwynbreeze Well-Known Member

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    While maybe not a freak accident, I'm wondering if circumstances lined up causing his death. If he did need his inhaler or passed out from hitting head, injuring his spine, as we've seen there's not a lot of room for people to access injury easily. Could fatal injury occurred trying to remove FG from van for medical assistance not realizing spinal injury. I know that doesn't account for everything, but speculation fodder.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3982371/
     
  19. Wysteria

    Wysteria Member

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    I fail to understand this logic.
    I can imagine so many negative "incidents" if the mayor was successful regarding the RBBM portion.
    I won't get into the details of "incidents" because I think that it sort of OT, or maybe not. I don't know.
    I'm all for LE wearing camera's, but with conditions attached? I think not. For reasons that are obvious to me ;).
    Thanks for the link and information.
     
  20. ShadyLady

    ShadyLady Well-Known Member

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    Something that caught my attention was an interview with an anonymous cop that said Gray was well known and had been used as an informant. IF, and big IF is that someone maybe connected to the heroin trafficking wanted him taken out. [The undisclosed stop].

    I am a big fan of The Wire, so maybe I have just been watching too many crime dramas....but the news on the Baltimore Patriots coming out today really makes Baltimore look bad, too.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0306414/
     
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