MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #3 *INDICTMENT*

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by shadowraiths, Apr 20, 2015.

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  1. katydid23

    katydid23 Well-Known Member

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    I bet there are a few things in the training manual that will hurt Mosby's case. For one, there will be discussion about handcuffing before an arrest and before frisking, if it is needed for officers safety. And two, there might be a discussion about what to do if putting a suspect in the truck and he is combative. If it suggests there is no need to buckle them in, the state will be in trouble here.
     


  2. BirdycatNY

    BirdycatNY New Member

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    Baltimore prosecutors refer to lack of seat belt, probable cause in outline of Freddie Gray charges

    By Kevin Rector The Baltimore Sun
    June 11, 2015
    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bs-md-ci-mosby-filing-20150611-story.html

    "In the most detailed explanation of the charges against six police officers in the arrest and death of Freddie Gray yet filed in court, prosecutors say the officers failed to belt the 25-year-old Baltimore man into the back of a police van, and lacked probable cause to arrest him in the first place.

    But they provide no new information on the most serious charges against the officers — including second-degree depraved-heart murder and manslaughter — in the bills of particulars filed this week in Circuit Court..."
     
  3. BirdycatNY

    BirdycatNY New Member

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    It's possible none of the LEOs knew exactly what happened to Mr. Gray (i.e. there could be serious defect in van). Also my guess, is the LEO Officers likely each had specific/independent duties and protocol based on their positions, so it could be timing. For example, what if each one of the officers independently followed protocol but do not overlap with other officer's duties, and based on the timing of Freddie's condition(s) were not aware of emergency. Hypothetically, if Mr. Gray had ingested drug or even had been drinking, then he could have been kicking early on in van, trying to get out of van. His condition may have worsened over time and if he hit his head/neck from falling off seat and no blood, an officer might not recognize symptoms, etc. Hindsight is 20-20 but I think the timing, autopsy, forensics and individual duties/protocol will likely be important in this case to figure what happened to Mr. Gray.

    Won't the police training manuals and protocol/procedures manuals be relevant in a case like this? Police p&p and following protocol. Am I missing something about what police training materials are...any WSrs know more about LE training materials?

    But jmo and hypos/
     
  4. Solitaryone

    Solitaryone Active Member

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    Thank You! Excellent post! :goodpost:

    Can't a prosecuter be criminally charged if they knowingly prosecute or attempt to prosecute someone(s) for crimes they didn't committ?
     
  5. Solitaryone

    Solitaryone Active Member

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    I don't think they know what happened. I hope the charges will be dismissed. Anyone think that will happen?
     
  6. Solitaryone

    Solitaryone Active Member

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    Seems to me there's quite a few who profit one way or the other from manufactured "oppression"!
     
  7. katydid23

    katydid23 Well-Known Member

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    I think they will be dismissed for the ones that initially arrested him. But I don't think it will be as easy to dismiss the others. They will probably go to trial. But I don't think they will be found guilty. JMO

    A lot of it will depend upon the autopsy results, imo.
     
  8. DebinGA

    DebinGA New Member

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    I can't imagine Mosby dropping charges on the 3 white bike cops but not the 3 black cops. The bike cops' interaction with FG was witnessed, and his capture and entry into the police van was filmed. Mosby had all that info + the medical examiner's report prior to charging the bike cops. She revised the charges after presenting evidence "for two weeks" to a grand jury, but the bike cops still face "intentional assault" and "illegal arrest" among other charges.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/05/21/baltimore-freddie-gray-indictments/27732775/
     
  9. katydid23

    katydid23 Well-Known Member

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    Yep. But the illegal arrest charges are not going to stick, in my opinion. Nor will the intentional assault. They have the emails showing that Mosby herself requested that the cops clean up that dangerous drug crime area. And the cops gave chase to a known drug addict/dealer, and took him down because he refused orders to stop running. His autopsy will probably have a tox screen showing positive for heroin. So I am not thinking she will be able to make those charges stick.

    I agree that she will not drop the charges. But I think the defense attorneys might be able to get them dropped before the trial. I hope so anyway.
     
  10. K_Z

    K_Z Verified Anesthetist

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  11. K_Z

    K_Z Verified Anesthetist

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    Excellent analysis today by Andrew Branca at Legal Insurrection.

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2015/0...ecutors-withhold-evidence-as-discovery-looms/
     
  12. K_Z

    K_Z Verified Anesthetist

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    Oh-- another comment. I had forgotten that FG was in the hospital ICU for a week or so before he died. Therefore, the most relevant blood toxicology results will be from his hospitalization admission. Certainly they would have run tox panels on admission for this patient, so they knew what was going on medically.

    But whether the AR will mention the results from hospital admission tox is up in the air. That depends on whether the ME decided to include the results in the commentary about the events leading up to hospitalization.The hospital tox results exist, of course, but will be in his medical records, not necessarily in his AR. They may have to be subpoenaed separately.

    However, if the autopsy tox included vitreous eye fluids (which is 100% standard that the autopsy would include this), and hair analysis (not necessarily included in autopsy), long term heroin use can be detected. But this would not reflect actue intoxication with heroin and/ or other substances on the day of admission.

    **If there are any "positives" for heroin on the autopsy tox, they will not be a false positive from morphine or opiate derivatives he may have received in ICU.

    http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1966150-overview#aw2aab6b4

    I am quite interested to read the autopsy report when it's released.
     
  13. BirdycatNY

    BirdycatNY New Member

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    West Baltimore’s Police Presence Drops, and Murders Soar
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/13/u...ice-presence-drops-and-murders-soar.html?_r=0
    By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr.
    JUNE 12, 2015

    I don't think more police presence in the Sandtown-Winchester neighborhood will help the community in the long run; and the proactive measures taken after March 2015 just kept criminals at bay imo, so I wonder what the crime in the neighborhood looked like before the emails for more police presence. Idk the answer to build better communities but it's not LE reform that is the main problem imo (although LE should get rid of abusive LEOs), when kids are committing crimes. The neighborhood sounds corroded with drug trafficking, amongst other crimes, it's hit rock bottom. All the government money in the world or stricter policing laws will not put a dent in the neighborhood crime, this is will really come down to the personal/individual choice of its residents to be better and work towards better for themselves and neighbors. Jmo/
     
  14. BirdycatNY

    BirdycatNY New Member

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    Most police vans in Baltimore region lack seat belts
    By Alison Knezevich and Pamela Wood The Baltimore Sun
    May 10, 2015
    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...tbelts-police-vans-20150508-story.html#page=1

    "Two Baltimore-area police departments say they're reviewing their practices for the transport of prisoners in the wake of Freddie Gray's death from an injury that prosecutors say he suffered in the back of a police van.

    The reviews by the Howard and Baltimore County police departments come as a survey by The Baltimore Sun found that prisoner transport vans used by county law enforcement agencies generally are not equipped with seat belts...The vans have aluminum benches on each side of the rear compartment, with straps for prisoners to hold behind their backs. The side-facing seats do not have seat belts..."
     
  15. dandy

    dandy Member

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    just wondering = but for the fact that fg died, would these officers have been charged if it had resulted in a normal transport? imo = no.
     
  16. dandy

    dandy Member

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    iirc baltimore invited doj to their city/police in october '2014 . . . and i'm guessing/speculating that that's the reason for the officers on bikes. sounds like community policing practices to me.

    and i'd like to add to your narrative = obey l/e commands - which should be the golden rule - just like obey your teachers, parents, etc. that should be put on west end neighborhood billboards. :thinking: wonder if we'll ever see that?
     
  17. dandy

    dandy Member

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    nope! mm has her heels/pride/reputation dug deep into this case . . . and i fear it will turn to quicksand if she doesn't voluntarily recuse herself.

    i still don't understand how the grand jury indicted all of them - i would assume she's obligated to give them the correct laws for high crime areas.
     
  18. kimmera

    kimmera Member

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    RSBM

    I am waiting for this as well. When the anonymous undercover cop was interviewed early on he said that the tox screen was done immediately upon FG's admission to the hospital. It would be interesting to see if they also analyzed stomach contents...and *if* heroin was ingested, would it show up in the stomach contents I wonder? If it can be proven that FG had recently ingested heroin, all bets are off, IMO. That would open up too much reasonable doubt that his injuries could have (at least in part) be caused by his own actions. Quite frankly, this is what I believe happened.

    I also believe that the AR is going to show that there was some pre-existing condition in his neck that predisposed him to injuring his spinal cord more easily than the average person. MSM has said that the story about FG having a recent spinal surgery was debunked by the Baltimore Sun, however if you go to the Md. Judiciary Search page and look at the cases FG was involved in, you can clearly see that FG was suing a TAXI COMPANY, and the most recent civil case activity (related to a settlement through Peachtree) had FG as the plaintiff against Taxi Management Inc. What in the world would a taxi company have to do with a lead paint case? So that issue has not been sufficiently debunked for me...

    I believe that there was a combination of factors that led to FG's injury, and I further believe that the SA's office knows that now and that is why they are holding evidence until the last possible moment, in hopes of either coming up with SOMETHING to support the charges or perhaps catching the defense off guard. Not gonna happen...and I'm pretty sure that both of those things would constitute prosecutorial misconduct at the worst, but very bad faith at the least...

    All just MOO, as always...
     
  19. abstr

    abstr On Time Out

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  20. abstr

    abstr On Time Out

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    The community requested less policing. It just bugs me....I want officers present but I do agree that there is some overpolicing.
     
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