Deceased/Not Found MD - Heather Grogg, 33, & Danielle Tyler, 18, Carroll Co, 6 Apr 2020 *arrest*

[jaydog_23]

As the days go on a lot of questions and missing pieces have been answered and found. But some questions I’m still pondering about is where did they put the bodies of HG and DT. Also where is AustinB, I find it just really odd how he disappears same time frame as the girls and if he was an informant or not. Also Jeff shared posted about HG being missing know he was the one who killed her for over a month.(Most likely did it to turn and draw attention from himself being a suspect and pretend as if he was just as worried as everyone else) He also shared post about AustinB going missing and I’m wondering if he know what happened to him or if he did something harmful to him as well. Or did he really go missing Jeff was trying to find him because AustinB knew about the things that went down. But him and AustinB are or were extremely close so I can’t see him harming him but after this situation idk anymore. Still some holes in this story that seem to lead to a dead end

 

[AlmostHeaven304]

Just a pondering thought. To me the drugs and the Pagans make the most sense. What if though, JR was prospecting for the club and didn’t do something that MM(if he is in the club)told him to do and JR said no or didn’t comply that’s considered disrespect a big no no. Then they end up getting into an argument/fight and therefore leads to the stabbing, murder and cover up. Now mind you someone said earlier there are some who are not so good people and also some who you would never imagine being in a biker gang and I agree. Just because his wife said he was a family man etc doesn’t mean he didn’t socialize with a mc club or possibly want to be in one. Another possible thought could be an initiation into the club that went way to far! Again, these are just pondering thoughts and “what if’s”. We will probably never really know the whole story just what is chosen to be shared. So very sad for any reason as to why! How many innocent children now have no father, no mother or both! My heart goes out to their families and loved ones.

I also had a question and it may have nothing to do with this case as soon as I find the link I will post it. When I was reading an article on this story, I think Carroll County News, I saw pics of people in a slideshow who are fugitives from justice and the first one his last name was same as ERD. Wondering if that has any relation to this case? Did anyone else see this?

 

[Buck187]

Just a pondering thought. To me the drugs and the Pagans make the most sense. What if though, JR was prospecting for the club and didn’t do something that MM(if he is in the club)told him to do and JR said no or didn’t comply that’s considered disrespect a big no no. Then they end up getting into an argument/fight and therefore leads to the stabbing, murder and cover up. Now mind you someone said earlier there are some who are not so good people and also some who you would never imagine being in a biker gang and I agree. Just because his wife said he was a family man etc doesn’t mean he didn’t socialize with a mc club or possibly want to be in one. Another possible thought could be an initiation into the club that went way to far! Again, these are just pondering thoughts and “what if’s”. We will probably never really know the whole story just what is chosen to be shared. So very sad for any reason as to why! How many innocent children now have no father, no mother or both! My heart goes out to their families and loved ones.

I also had a question and it may have nothing to do with this case as soon as I find the link I will post it. When I was reading an article on this story, I think Carroll County News, I saw pics of people in a slideshow who are fugitives from justice and the first one his last name was same as ERD. Wondering if that has any relation to this case? Did anyone else see this?

I saw the same thing. Brent Day is his name.

 

[FollowingMD]

JR wasn't a Kiddie Toucher. The man may have been a weirdo, or socially awkward, but not a pedo. This was about drugs. JR used drugs & never paid. It sounds dumb (because it is), but that's what's being said by those more involved. It's being said MM got upset with JR for showing up to use their drugs, and never brought money. MM had apparently gotten in a physical altercation with JR. At one point JR allegedly had the upper hand, and had MM down on the ground. At that point DS took it upon himself to stab JR.

They then bound JR, drove him in his own vehicle to WV, and proceeded to finish it off.

I have been on this since b4 websleuths, and would like to prevent spinning false narratives. Rumors can get people killed. Especially in a case like this involving gang ties. I know everyone wants to help, and truly cares, but we aught be careful about spreading what we read here outside of here.

That’s why I didn’t want to say it. And drugs make sense. I just find it odd that there isn’t a mention of drugs in any media articles or charges or even Facebook posts.

Just a pondering thought. To me the drugs and the Pagans make the most sense. What if though, JR was prospecting for the club and didn’t do something that MM(if he is in the club)told him to do and JR said no or didn’t comply that’s considered disrespect a big no no. Then they end up getting into an argument/fight and therefore leads to the stabbing, murder and cover up. Now mind you someone said earlier there are some who are not so good people and also some who you would never imagine being in a biker gang and I agree. Just because his wife said he was a family man etc doesn’t mean he didn’t socialize with a mc club or possibly want to be in one. Another possible thought could be an initiation into the club that went way to far! Again, these are just pondering thoughts and “what if’s”. We will probably never really know the whole story just what is chosen to be shared. So very sad for any reason as to why! How many innocent children now have no father, no mother or both! My heart goes out to their families and loved ones.

I also had a question and it may have nothing to do with this case as soon as I find the link I will post it. When I was reading an article on this story, I think Carroll County News, I saw pics of people in a slideshow who are fugitives from justice and the first one his last name was same as ERD. Wondering if that has any relation to this case? Did anyone else see this?

I saw it too but couldn’t figure out if they were siblings. However, I saw that JS is friends with him.

 

[Mayjunejuly]

Like someone said earlier, the only way six adults(including multiple females) would conspire to kill a guy on a whim or ever for that matter would be if he diddled a kid. I hate suggesting a possibility that would implicate a deceased and potentially tarnish their name. The officials wouldn't release it as to keep sympathy with the public and jury.

Food for thought. MM is dating DT the 18 year old troubled youth. Perhaps JR molested her during her troubled youth? DT pours her heart out to MM and his friends while they're all drunk. Some biker at the party overhears it and gets into an uproar about all of JRs slights. They then drunkenly decide to take JR out. Then after its done MM panics because someone told and they assume it was the girls.

Anyways, I had this all typed out a couple days ago but didn't want to be the first to suggest the sexual predation of the children angle.

This is one guy who posts he will kill a pedophile, and his wife had his back(was arrested too). Everyone involved had jobs, lives, and children
JR being a pedophile or a predator is the only reason I can grasp on why so many people risked their and their children's lives to take him out. God forgive me if I am wrong and insinuating this about a dead man.

Heres my opinion on the possibility JR was killed due to being a child molester.,..

It very well could be true, but I'm curious then why would DS, ERD, MM & JB not be screaming from the rooftops, "we killed him because he sexually abused our girls", if in fact that was what lead to the attack in the apartment, that would be almost an ok defense, it would make sense they walked in & saw JR with the girls and lost it, I mean idk my thoughts as a mother would be to kill the person who touched my child regardless...but it many circumstances its not 1st degree planned murder charges. Im just saying if that was the reason. I feel we would have heard somthing...and I doubt they would be facing murder, it would be like manslaughter charges or at worst 2nd degree murder...
For That reason I'm thinking it was due to,drugs and no payment, they may not mention drugs explicitly in MSM, but you can clearly see they were involved if you look at the mug shot for JS who is obviously on meth in that photo,his pupils and lock jaw give that away and that's def. Meth use no doubt about that. Plus ive heard rumors MM allegedly started dealing drugs again... It makes more sense to me!!

 

[Mayjunejuly]

I also want to mention, I dont think 6 ppl killed JR, I believe 3 participated in the actual attack & the others were just "by standers" sure they up by not getting JR help but they didnt plan on being a part of a murder plot... I'm speaking of HG and DT because why kill them to cover it up? They obviously were not in on the plan nor were they prob even aware they planned to kill JR.. They sound like 2 girls at a location who saw somthing ..its obvious MM and DS anf ERD didnt trust HG and DT to keep quiet..i wonder why esp. When MSM is saying 2 minors are involved... I would be more worried about minors spilling the beans and getting a slap on the wrist from LE due to age..., but who knows.

 

[Steph8angels]

There is no excuse ever to gang up the cowards way and kill a man, stab him in one location bind him and drive to another state stab him and set him on fire.
I am sure defence attorneys will use anything now that the two major non violent witnesses were lured to their murder.

If they were killing a man they thought was justified in their evil violent criminal dark minds they would not of horrifically murdered DT and HG who could of verified the nature of killing JR.

MM is broken, all the players are broken and need to be kept away from other potiental innocent victims.
Rant over
I am sure more arrest to come ALL MOO MOO MOO

 

[MimosaMornings]

Beyond a “rough crowd” in my opinion.
MOO

 

[Mayjunejuly]

There is no excuse ever to gang up the cowards way and kill a man, stab him in one location bind him and drive to another state stab him and set him on fire.
I am sure defence attorneys will use anything now that the two major non violent witnesses were lured to their murder.

If they were killing a man they thought was justified in their evil violent criminal dark minds they would not of horrifically murdered DT and HG who could of verified the nature of killing JR.

MM is broken, all the players are broken and need to be kept away from other potiental innocent victims.
Rant over
I am sure more arrest to come ALL MOO MOO MOO

Im sorry I might have worded my thoughts wrong to Imply they had a reason for the murder of JR and then subsequent events that followed... I was in no way saying that it is ever okay, murder is not ok.

I was only saying that I didnt believe that the motive to be that JR was abusing DS/ERDs kids.. I was saying if that was the case, why havent they proclaimed that? Walking in on such a situation would surely invoke a passionate and violent response from these individuals esp. DS & MM with violent pasts. So I didnt think that was the motive in this situation. But thats my opinion! I do agree if that was the reason i dont think it would have turned into such a shitshow that it has, and why would they kill DT & HG? Especially, because in my opinion if you killed someone who you witnessed abuse your kids, you wouldn't take the time to stop mid attack, and take them to a new loacation to finish killing them and then getting rid of evidence, I would imagine a scenario like that would lead to a crime of passion as they say, being so enraged they couldn't help themselves from killing the person... But thats clearly not what happened here in the case of JR, they not only had the foresight to stop mid attack, use forensic countermeasures and crossing statelines..all which help with mudding up the investigation... So I do believe this was premeditated, at least at some point they realized they were going to kill JR so ERD gave gloves, they got gas, they took him across state lines, torched eveidence and then lured 2 of the witnesses/ possibly involved ( at least in some sense, esp, having gone to the biker party, back at the home and then to WV for disposal. I'm not victim blaming or shaming at all, just stating that at some point HG & DT realized JR was being taken to his death... I can't imagine what was going through their minds on the drive to and from WV.... ) I dont believe the girls planned or really participated in the actual attack on JR, but they didnt get help, didn't raise any alarms to anyone during or in the days after the JR murder, but before they were killed. I'm still at a loss as to why kill HG & DT ? I mean obviously to cover up and silence them, but what did they know that the police didnt already know from the original informant?

Does anyone know when MSM first mentioned that LE had an imformant in the JR murder? Was it before 4/6? According to the MSM missing flyers, HG, DT and AusB were all last seen April 6.... We know MM ordered HG & DT to be killed & they were on April 6... Anyways i mentioned earlier possibly AusB let LE know the girls were headed to their deaths? Hence the critically missing status... But oddly, they werent located or at least,no MSM about the whearabouts of DT and HG until this past week... Who told LE the girls were dead? I'm wondering if they located the bodies yet..

I saw an MSM stating FBI told sherry tyler about the death of DT this past Monday before they published in MSM, if in fact the fbi is just now finding out the girls are dead, who told them? If AusB is the informant, wouldnt he have already told police info that HG and DT also had, as being witnesses?

Sounds like meth and & other drugs have led to bad decision making that led to even more half-assed plans....there seems to be missing information and flawed logic in these killers thinking... Smh!

 

[Mayjunejuly]

Also, question to everyone:

What do these peace orders against JR mean? Im not originally from MD and havent heard of that term, is that like a restraining order? Or a domestic abuse charge? I'm unable to locate JR in the maryland page, I think im on the wrong thing to look up cases, im going back to find @Knox post with the correct link! But any info on why or how someone would get those is helpful, thank you!

 

[mompalm]

What do these peace orders against JR mean? Im not originally from MD and havent heard of that term, is that like a restraining order? Or a domestic abuse charge? I'm unable to locate JR in the maryland page, I think im on the wrong thing to look up cases, im going back to find @Knox post with the correct link! But any info on why or how someone would get those is helpful, thank you!

I went to the Maryland Judiciary Case Search and couldn't find any Peace Orders or DV (Domestic Violence) offenses against JR. Maybe there is another JR with those charges.

To answer your question, a Peace Order generally means the same as Restraining Order in Maryland. They are not easy to get, the judge has to be convinced the applicant is really in some kind of danger or being credibly threatened.

All just my own opinion.

 

[FollowingMD]

Also, question to everyone:

What do these peace orders against JR mean? Im not originally from MD and havent heard of that term, is that like a restraining order? Or a domestic abuse charge? I'm unable to locate JR in the maryland page, I think im on the wrong thing to look up cases, im going back to find @Knox post with the correct link! But any info on why or how someone would get those is helpful, thank you!

I went to the Maryland Judiciary Case Search and couldn't find any Peace Orders or DV (Domestic Violence) offenses against JR. Maybe there is another JR with those charges.

To answer your question, a Peace Order generally means the same as Restraining Order in Maryland. They are not easy to get, the judge has to be convinced the applicant is really in some kind of danger or being credibly threatened.

All just my own opinion.

The peace orders are there. You have to search Jon Riddle. Same birthday as well. And that is how he spells “Jon”. There are three under that name.

also, search John Riddle and you’ll find the 4th one. It is not confirmed with his birthdate as the others tho.

Peace Orders | The Maryland People's Law Library

The below info is not exactly correct. The link above explains it.

A peace order is like a protection from abuse. There has to be physical proof to get one.

 

[Steph8angels]

@Mayjunejuly
No No don't get me wrong.
I was just laying it out there in case the Defence team is reading.
Which sometimes happens.

I respect your opinions and speculations.

This is a case of twist and turns for sure.

 

[mompalm]

The peace orders are there. You have to search Jon Riddle. Same birthday as well. And that is how he spells “Jon”. There are three under that name.

also, search John Riddle and you’ll find the 4th one. It is not confirmed with his birthdate as the others tho.

@FollowingMD You are right, my apologies - I did not search under the other names, although they are the same person.

The 3 from 2016 were dismissed because the parties worked out their differences, according to the court record. The one from 2011 was denied because there was no statutory basis, if we are talking about the same one. No birthdate, and this was in Balto County.

 

[FollowingMD]

@FollowingMD You are right, my apologies - I did not search under the other names, although they are the same person.

The 3 from 2016 were dismissed because the parties worked out their differences, according to the court record. The one from 2011 was denied because there was no statutory basis, if we are talking about the same one. No birthdate, and this was in Balto County.

no need to apologize. And I’m not sold on the 4th one Either. But it’s a possibility. The three in 2016 fit with his wife and 2 kids since they list school for 2.

At this point I don’t think it leads to anything he did before. I think he went to the party With them and it happened after. I do not think the group came home to him there and killed him. He didn’t deserve it either way but it makes a difference (To me) to if he was randomly murdered or if he was involved with the group.

 

[jaydog_23]

Heres my opinion on the possibility JR was killed due to being a child molester.,..

It very well could be true, but I'm curious then why would DS, ERD, MM & JB not be screaming from the rooftops, "we killed him because he sexually abused our girls", if in fact that was what lead to the attack in the apartment, that would be almost an ok defense, it would make sense they walked in & saw JR with the girls and lost it, I mean idk my thoughts as a mother would be to kill the person who touched my child regardless...but it many circumstances its not 1st degree planned murder charges. Im just saying if that was the reason. I feel we would have heard somthing...and I doubt they would be facing murder, it would be like manslaughter charges or at worst 2nd degree murder...
For That reason I'm thinking it was due to,drugs and no payment, they may not mention drugs explicitly in MSM, but you can clearly see they were involved if you look at the mug shot for JS who is obviously on meth in that photo,his pupils and lock jaw give that away and that's def. Meth use no doubt about that. Plus ive heard rumors MM allegedly started dealing drugs again... It makes more sense to me!!

see my things is why kill the girls if they killed him for molesting them. I don’t think it was any type of sexual activity and I’m more to believe it was drugs or something. Doesn’t make sense to kill the molester then the kill the girls for knowing they killed the molester. That theory just doesn’t add up to me

 

[FollowingMD]

see my things is why kill the girls if they killed him for molesting them. I don’t think it was any type of sexual activity and I’m more to believe it was drugs or something. Doesn’t make sense to kill the molester then the kill the girls for knowing they killed the molester. That theory just doesn’t add up to me

I meant DS and ERDs kid if HG was home babysitting them

but it doesn’t fit regardless. I agree

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

The peace orders are there. You have to search Jon Riddle. Same birthday as well. And that is how he spells “Jon”. There are three under that name.

also, search John Riddle and you’ll find the 4th one. It is not confirmed with his birthdate as the others tho.

Peace Orders | The Maryland People's Law Library

The below info is not exactly correct. The link above explains it.

A peace order is like a protection from abuse. There has to be physical proof to get one.

Not defending anyone, but I see 3 Peace Orders. 1 is denied due to "no basis". All are filed on the same day and the follow up hearing is on the same day at the same time. I don't claim to know what happened but whatever it was it sounds like it was 1 event and not a recurring behavior. MOO

 

[Mayjunejuly]

no need to apologize. And I’m not sold on the 4th one Either. But it’s a possibility. The three in 2016 fit with his wife and 2 kids since they list school for 2.

At this point I don’t think it leads to anything he did before. I think he went to the party With them and it happened after. I do not think the group came home to him there and killed him. He didn’t deserve it either way but it makes a difference (To me) to if he was randomly murdered or if he was involved with the group.

So do we have anything solid stating HG & JR were both present @ the biker party? Than they all went back to DS/ERDs apt??

Ive seen conflicting MSM articles, one state HG was @ the biker party with DT & the rest, but never saw JR specifically mentioned as being @ the biker party b4 his murder...ive see MSM saying JR went to the apt to meet HG, and then later the rest come home to the apt (DS MM ERD DT AusB 2 minors) & that's when the attacked occurred...

BUT I just remembered, does anyone remb the really early MSM reporting on the murder? I believe JRs wife said he was at 'a party' or going to a party..
Idk ..

Im leaning toward HG was at thr apt bbaysitting the 2 children and JR came to that apt, maybe used drugs and that wheb the others arrived back... It would make sense because ERD was at the biker party but not the dump site...

 

[Maybe idk]

This case is very confusing and the presses conflicting stories makes it even worse. Searching the name Tyler a...girl named Nicole comes up as a crack? dealer? Not sure ..(sorry) is this person somehow related to the young girl? I think the article said she was about the same age as some of the older people involved....just mention this since I see ALOT of posts about drugs being connected...how big is Westminster? Could they all know each other?