ME ME - Hancock Co, 3 sets of remains (& PMs), pulled up by a scallop dragger, Dec'91

[YaYa_521]

I'd appreciate your thoughts on this somewhat confusing matter. Sorry I type so much but I want to make certain I'm clear on my thinking. I came across the following 3 profiles for UIDs washed ashore in Maine in Dec 1991 and the profiles for 3 fishermen whose boat sank in ETA Feb (not Jan) 1991. Does anyone who's familiar with that incident or NamUs know if there's a reason they haven't been compared? It seems to me that LE would have remembered the January incident once these remains washed up in Dec '91. Should I submit these as potential matches? ETA - oops, tia if you bother reading all of this.

For the actual matches -
If the ME's estimate is correct on the estimated age of UP60641 it seems those remains (Pelvis, sacrum and L5) would match with Lawrence. He's the only one of the three who fits that estimated age range. The clothing description for the two profiles are different (gray jeans vs. gray sweatpants). My guess is Lawrence likely had the sweatpants under his jeans and those were pulled off of him by the water or the pants were described differently by either the reporting party or the ME's office. The skull and femur profiles would then most likely match Benjamin and Norman as both of them are within the estimated age range of both UID profiles.

I put Lawrence's profile directly beneath the profile I think he'd match. The other 2 UID profiles follow then the two profiles for Norman and Benjamin.


The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
Unidentified Person / NamUs #UP60641
Male, Uncertain
Date Body Found December 16, 1991
Location Found Frenchboro, Maine
Estimated Age Range 37-65 Years
Height Cannot Estimate
Weight Cannot Estimate
Clothing - gray sweatpants with elastic waist and legs and two (2) white stripes on each leg. - On the Body
Circumstances of Recovery - Pelvis, sacrum and L5 pulled up by a scallop dragger.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
NamUs #MP60650
Lawrence Wayne Robbins
Male, White / Caucasian
Date of Last Contact February 24, 1991
Missing From Bernard, Maine
Missing Age 36 Years
Height 6' 1" (73 Inches)
Weight 175 lbs

Clothing - Black leather jacket, grey jeans, white t-shirt
Footwear - Black hip boots
Circumstances of Disappearance - Captain of fishing vessel "Risky Business" that sank off Frenchboro.

#


The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
Unidentified Person / NamUs #UP60610
Male, White / Caucasian
Date Body Found December 18, 1991
Location Found Stonington, Maine
Estimated Age Range 18-44 Years
Estimated Age Group Adult - Pre 40
Height Cannot Estimate
Weight Cannot Estimate
Circumstances of Recovery - Skull pulled up by a scallop dragger off Long Island, Maine.


The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
Unidentified Person / NamUs #UP60633
Male, Uncertain
Date Body Found December 23, 1991
Location Found Stonington, Maine
Estimated Age Range 18-40 Years
Estimated Age Group Adult - Pre 40
Estimated Age Range (Years)18-40
Height 5' 6"-6' 1"(66-73 inches) , Estimated
Weight Cannot Estimate
Circumstances of Recovery - Femur pulled up by a scallop dragger.

#

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
NamUs #MP60700
Benjamin Eugene Day
Male, White / Caucasian
Date of Last Contact February 24, 1991
Missing From Bass Harbor, Maine
Missing Age 21 Years
Height 5' 9" (69 Inches)
Weight 175 lbs
Other distinctive physical characteristic - Upper right side of jaw, adult tooth overlapped baby tooth.
Accessories - Blue baseball hat
Clothing - Grey jeans, black t-shirt
Footwear - Black hip boots
Circumstances of Disappearance - Crew member on "Risky Business" that sank off of Frenchboro.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
NamUs #MP60647
Norman Closson, III
Male, White / Caucasian
Date of Last Contact February 24, 1991
Missing From Bass Harbor, Maine
Missing Age 19 Years
Height 5' 6" (66 Inches)
Weight 135 lbs
Scar/mark - Scar on bridge of nose.
Accessories - White baseball hat
Clothing - Black jeans, black t-shirt, black leather jacket
Footwear - Black hip boots
Circumstances of Disappearance - Crew member of the fishing boat, "Risky Business" that sank off

 

[YaYa_521]

After thinking about this a little more it looks like these would be the matches for Benjamin and Norman.

NamUs #UP60633 - Femur may match with Benjamin: Given the estimated height range for UP (5' 6"-6' 1"), Ben would fall right in the middle at 5' 9". Whereas Norman would be at the lower end (5'6").

NamUs #UP60610 - Skull would then likely match with Norman.

 

[UnlicensedPI]

Are we certain the Stonington femur and skull don't belong to the same person?

 

[YaYa_521]

Are we certain the Stonington femur and skull don't belong to the same person?

I wondered about that too. I assume (danger zone, i know ) they are believed to be from two separate victims which is why they have different NamUs profiles. But then again maybe none of these remains have actually been compared against one another. There's no way for us to know now that the system doesn't show DNA availability on the general public's view of the profiles. NamUs is great in so many ways yet it still leaves so much to be desired, imo. I'm tempted to contact either Hancock County investigators or the NamUs rep but I'm not very confident in my ability to communicate as succinctly as necessary in this case.

 

[devertere]

Have you ever contacted LE?

 

[YaYa_521]

Have you ever contacted LE?

No, I haven't. I was hoping to get more feedback before submitting but I suppose I should submit this information.

 

[PayrollNerd]

How far offshore did the boat sink? Any idea what caused the boat to sink? Did a storm blow thru, did the boat have a mechanical or structural breakdown or maybe they hit sea debris?

Depending on how far offshore and the tides, the bones could be others lost at sea but never reported.

What type of testing could they have done back in 1991 to determine these bones belong to 3 different people?

 

[devertere]

No, I haven't. I was hoping to get more feedback before submitting but I suppose I should submit this information.

go for it

 

[YaYa_521]

How far offshore did the boat sink? Any idea what caused the boat to sink? Did a storm blow thru, did the boat have a mechanical or structural breakdown or maybe they hit sea debris?

Depending on how far offshore and the tides, the bones could be others lost at sea but never reported.

What type of testing could they have done back in 1991 to determine these bones belong to 3 different people?

I found these news articles but I don't have a subscription in order to view the information at the links. I'd like to think the stories will have detailed information about where the boat sank and/or was found.
Newspapers.com search
ETA - It doesn't look like the link will show the results correctly. I searched for these terms 'risky business' '1991' 'Maine'.

 

[CCJD]

Looks like the probability of the remains being the three missing fishermen is very much on the radar of authorities. It may be that the info has been entered into NamUs for the purpose of getting the DNA ball rolling.
3 Jan 1992, 5 - The Bangor Daily News at Newspapers.com
(subscription required)

 

[PayrollNerd]

Looks like the probability of the remains being the three missing fishermen is very much on the radar of authorities. It may be that the info has been entered into NamUs for the purpose of getting the DNA ball rolling.
3 Jan 1992, 5 - The Bangor Daily News at Newspapers.com
(subscription required)

Ok so that confirms a much stronger connection since they found them on the vessel. So what they need to determine, if they haven’t already is, are the remains from the vessel and the remains dredged up, the same 3 people.

Interesting that they chose not to raise the sunken vessel. Had they raised it, perhaps they could have found more info on how it sunk. It would have been cold, probably choppy seas, windy, any squalls blowing in, etc. Maybe additional remains or personal items could have been found. At this point I wonder if there are deep divers who seek out this location.

 

[CCJD]

Interesting that they chose not to raise the sunken vessel. Had they raised it, perhaps they could have found more info on how it sunk. It would have been cold, probably choppy seas, windy, any squalls blowing in, etc. Maybe additional remains or personal items could have been found. At this point I wonder if there are deep divers who seek out this location.

RSBM

The boat had flooded-sunk five times before. Pertinent part of article attached.
16 Nov 1991, 9 - The Bangor Daily News at Newspapers.com

 

[PayrollNerd]

RSBM

The boat had flooded-sunk five times before. Pertinent part of article attached.
16 Nov 1991, 9 - The Bangor Daily News at Newspapers.com

So that explains it. Poor maintenance and fishermen taking too many risks are huge contributing factors. No human and no boat are invincible. Too bad they learned the hard way. I wonder if they left families behind. Were they destitute and took the risks to try to support themselves maybe?

 

[YaYa_521]

Looks like the probability of the remains being the three missing fishermen is very much on the radar of authorities. It may be that the info has been entered into NamUs for the purpose of getting the DNA ball rolling.
3 Jan 1992, 5 - The Bangor Daily News at Newspapers.com
(subscription required)

Tyvm for accessing and sharing the article, @CCJD! I think you're correct about entering their info into NamUs in preparation for comparison. I hadn't noticed before but the profile creation dates for all three men and each unidentified remains case are Oct 3 & 4, 2019. I'll still send the email to satisfy my own mind in case of the slight chance LE isn't aware of the possible connection with these cases.

 

[MadMcGoo]

I found these news articles but I don't have a subscription in order to view the information at the links. I'd like to think the stories will have detailed information about where the boat sank and/or was found.
Newspapers.com search
ETA - It doesn't look like the link will show the results correctly. I searched for these terms 'risky business' '1991' 'Maine'.

A little late to the game here, but here is the full article you linked...


Great find by the way!

 

[DS2021]

Did you ever hear back from anyone?
@YaYa_521