Identified! ME - Jonesport, Wht/OtherMale 60-65, UP15307, in ocean, clothes, watch, Jul'00 - Philip Kahn

[Susikatze]

Actress Madeline Kahn (Blazing Saddles, Young Frankenstein)

Its a German Jewish name

 

[wary]

Since Philip was identified using fingerprints and dental records, his body was relatively intact, although the sea causes rapid deterioration of bodies. I agree that he must have been spending time on the coast - probably the coast of Maine considering the condition of his body. He probably was not sailing alone.

I wonder if there were any small boats lost at sea at that time. Could he have been an invited guest on one that capsized—with the owner found, but with no one knowing there’d been someone else on board?

Just a speculation

 

[Warwick1991]

I have potentially found more about him. I have found a Philip Kahn born October 6th 1915. (Same birthdate listed on the family search record I posted upthread) born in Manhattan New York. He registered for the draft on Oct 16th, 1940 in Miami Beach, Florida. He listed himself as a white male, roughly 6 foot 4, 170 pounds, with brown eyes, brown hair and a light brown complexion. According to this record he was employed by the Miami Herald. He lists a friend with the initials of SK as next of kin, both men appeared to live together in miami beach

Edit to fix spelling

I found a My Heritage 1940 Census listing for Philip Kahn probably born in 1915 or 1916 in NY. He had 2 siblings, a brother and a sister. I don’t have Ancestry access. Is that the same person you found?

 

[DS2021]

I found a My Heritage 1940 Census listing for Philip Kahn probably born in 1915 or 1916 in NY. He had 2 siblings, a brother and a sister. I don’t have Ancestry access. Is that the same person you found?

I think I found the record you are referring to. It lists parents as SK and AK? There was another Philip Kahn also born in October that lived in NY. The Philip Kahn that I found would have been in Miami Beach in 1940. This PK fits the john doe description quite well and APPEARS to have lived in Nevada at one point.

 

[Warwick1991]

I think the PMI estimate is probably off. If there were usable fingerprints, Philip was in the water for much less than a month, IMO. He was found on July 24, 2000 and was estimated to have entered the water in June. I think he may have been in the water for a couple of weeks - at most. The sea and marine life are very harsh on bodies, and PMI can be difficult to estimate.

Charter boat? Cruise? Ferry? Perhaps no one wanted to report the loss of a passenger, or was aware of his loss, depending on the size of the vessel. If he was aboard a small craft with other passengers, someone would notice if he went overboard or went missing. Most small craft that carry tourists have some kind of head/bathroom, so he wouldn't be urinating overboard unless it was a really small day boat. That kind of boat is unlikely to carry tourists.

Foul play is possible, too, with someone disposing of his body offshore. The missing pants could have resulted from his body coming loose from weighted objects that retained his pants.

We need to know more about Philip and his life.

 

[Warwick1991]

I think I found the record you are referring to. It lists parents as SK and AK? There was another Philip Kahn also born in October that lived in NY. The Philip Kahn that I found would have been in Miami Beach in 1940. This PK fits the john doe description quite well and APPEARS to have lived in Nevada at one point.

Yes, the one I found had parents listed as SK and AK. I didn't find a second Philip, but Ancestry might be better with US records. Is there a middle initial?

 

[DS2021]

I'm assuming this is him.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJWP-B766

The only thing I'm unsure of is some of the dates listed. I'm seeing a 2004 and 2007. He wouldve been dead at that point. Im assuming this is his last known address, so is it possible that it automatically filled in that he was still living there?

 

[DS2021]

I think the PMI estimate is probably off

He flew into New York sometime in july. The PMI is definitely off

 

[Friday Fan]

The only thing I'm unsure of is some of the dates listed. I'm seeing a 2004 and 2007. He wouldve been dead at that point. Im assuming this is his last known address, so is it possible that it automatically filled in that he was still living there?

Happens all the time! Random public records often flag deceased people for whatever reason.

 

[Warwick1991]

The only thing I'm unsure of is some of the dates listed. I'm seeing a 2004 and 2007. He wouldve been dead at that point. Im assuming this is his last known address, so is it possible that it automatically filled in that he was still living there?

This sounds like it should be him. If there's no date of death I suppose he could still be on some databases.

 

[Alleykins]

I still believe there's a chance he was on the CAT, or a similar day or weekend type gambling cruise to Nova Scotia, and fell overboard. Depending on where along the route he fell off, and what currents he got caught up in, it's a real possibility. Especially after reading he traveled from Las Vegas to the east, leaving me thinking he may have liked to gamble. The CAT has slot machines and black jack. If he arrived alone, and boarded alone, no one would have noticed he was missing. And unless someone saw him fall over board, no one would have known he was in the water. I don't believe they take a head count to make sure everyone who boarded gets off the boat, at least, they didn't when I took it to NS. I don't even recall a passenger manifest, only a reservation list. Like ours was under my then bf's name for two people. Had it sunk, none of the crew would have known who I was.
It would also explain why he was bundled up, it's freezing out there, even in the summer.

 

[Warwick1991]

I think the CAT is a credible scenario, too. No manifest, lots of people, and nobody is aboard long enough to get to know other passengers.

 

[Warwick1991]

I think I found the record you are referring to. It lists parents as SK and AK? There was another Philip Kahn also born in October that lived in NY. The Philip Kahn that I found would have been in Miami Beach in 1940. This PK fits the john doe description quite well and APPEARS to have lived in Nevada at one point.

Is there any biographical detail on the Philip in Miami Beach? Siblings or parents? What kind of record was it? I am beginning to think the Miami Beach Philip and the New York Philip are the same man. Perhaps family members told the census taker about Philip, even though he wasn't there.

 

[DS2021]

Is there any biographical detail on the Philip in Miami Beach? Siblings or parents? What kind of record was it? I am beginning to think the Miami Beach Philip and the New York Philip are the same man. Perhaps family members told the census taker about Philip, even though he wasn't there

It was a draft card for WWII
Edit no info on bio family. Next of kin was a friend that he lived with.

 

[Canadianmom2three]

I have not followed this case at all, and I'm just seeing it now. But I'm so glad Philip Kahn was identified. I see that he flew from Las Vegas to NYC where he went missing, and that possibly he was born in NYC? If that is the case, it comes to my mind that it could be someone going back to their place of birth to end their life or because they knew their time was coming? Just a thought and MOO of course.

 

[ifindedout]

I still believe there's a chance he was on the CAT, or a similar day or weekend type gambling cruise to Nova Scotia, and fell overboard. Depending on where along the route he fell off, and what currents he got caught up in, it's a real possibility. Especially after reading he traveled from Las Vegas to the east, leaving me thinking he may have liked to gamble. The CAT has slot machines and black jack. If he arrived alone, and boarded alone, no one would have noticed he was missing. And unless someone saw him fall over board, no one would have known he was in the water. I don't believe they take a head count to make sure everyone who boarded gets off the boat, at least, they didn't when I took it to NS. I don't even recall a passenger manifest, only a reservation list. Like ours was under my then bf's name for two people. Had it sunk, none of the crew would have known who I was.
It would also explain why he was bundled up, it's freezing out there, even in the summer.

There were also two CAT routes to Yarmouth, Nova Scotia back then, one from Bar Harbor, the other from Portland. The former still operates today, May-Oct (daily in summer), the latter has been on-again, off-again (currently off) siince 2004.
ETA: Wikipedia's Yarmouth, NS entry in the subsection Steamships and ferries is out of date.

 

[Friday Fan]

I wonder what his story is?
Did the person who reported him missing know he was in NYC? Was he visiting someone?

 

[Warwick1991]

It was a draft card for WWII
Edit no info on bio family. Next of kin was a friend that he lived with.

I found the draft card, and the reverse side was stamped in Miami, but there was a previous draft board in Brooklyn, NY, indicating that Philip had moved and reported to a new draft board.

Interesting that there's no family members listed on the draft card - maybe there was some estrangement. Draft cards for my relatives had their parents' names and address. So far, I've found no record of actual WWII service. I had relatives drafted at the maximum age, over 20 years older than Philip. With a male friend listed as NOK instead of family, perhaps he was LGBT, and rejected or quickly discharged. He may have had a medical issue, or an occupational exemption.

 

[Friday Fan]

I see two potential marriages in Las Vegas: 1964 and 1983

The potential 1983 wife did not list him in her obituary. (She died in 2007 and this could be the 2007 source in the public record). Maybe she thought he left her or maybe they were divorced?

 

[ifindedout]

Broad map of currents in the Gulf of Maine:

Gulf of Maine | Maine: An Encyclopedia

The Gulf of Maine extends from Cape Cod in Massachusetts, to the coasts of New Hampshire, Maine, and the Canadian provinces of New Brunswick, and to Cape Sable, Nova Scotia. An important part of the Gulf is Casco Bay, which supports substantial varieties of marine life, but is in the midst of...

maineanencyclopedia.com

Jonesport, ME marine area (Moose Peak Light) for perspective:

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