Measles: To Disneyland and Beyond

[iamnotagolem]

My daughter is a doctor in Vancouver. One of the children in the hospital there who contacted measles through the Disneyland exposure has died. The child was under a year old and was unvaccinated. Of course the medical people are infuriated. The death was most likely avoidable.

Link please.

 

[LinasK]

Yes. And perhaps older moms with "degraded eggs" are creating children more susceptible to autism via triggers like repeated vaccines.


Autism seems to affect children of highly intelligent and more educated parents more often.
We can scoff at anti-vaxxers as yuppies or ignorant but interestingly, they actually tend to be more educated people who've done a ton of research: http://www.chicagomag.com/city-life...ne-Refusal-More-Prevalent-Among-the-Affluent/


It seems the very population who are affected most by autism are the same ones who distrust the vaccine.

They tend to be very selective in their research. They find the study(ies) that fit their theory. One doctor who practices alot of this quackery is Dr. Mercola, but I'm not sure if he's the one touting the DTAp/autism theory or not.
I don't find them ignorant, just misguided. If you read my post, I have 3 friends and a niece who are anti-vaxxers. I don't tell them when we get our flu vaccines yearly.

 

[Hiandmighty]

Give it a day or two for a link... The disneyland cases are currently unfolding and it may take a couple of days for the news to report it,

 

[LinasK]

ITA with you and so does this mother. The idea that parents are opting out of vaccines for religious reasons is ridiculous. If they are opting out of vaccines, the likelihood they are sending their children to public school is slim to none.

The fear of measles is “a hot topic right now in all our families,” said Children’s oncology nurse Anisa Hoie.

“They’re all up in arms,” said Hoie, who wears 10 rubber bracelets, each stamped with a cancer child’s name. Sammy’s is navy blue. “Parents have to be very careful.”

Erin Nahorny was diplomatic about parents who opt out of vaccines for their children for non-medical reasons.

“I think everyone is trying to do their best,” she said. But she said she wished they would vaccinate.

“We count on everyone else,” she said, “to keep our kids safe.”

http://www.livewellnebraska.com/hea...cle_05a9836f-9f07-5780-bfe9-cffdaea98278.html

3 of the 4 I know have their kids in public school, niece is currently homeschooling 3 of her 4, but plans to send oldest to public high school next year.

 

[LinasK]

There have been one or two pediatric groups in the Bay Area, specifically Marin in the news in the last couple of days who are refusing to treat their patients if the parents are refusing vaccines. It's particularly of note because Marin has the highest number of personal belief exemptions-7%!
Good for these doctors!

 

[CoolJ]

Snipped for focus.

No one ever died from "not" taking Vioxx, HRT, oxycontin, or Avandia. And no "bystanders" around the people who DIDN'T take Vioxx, HRT, oxycontin, and Avandia ever got sick or died.

Vaccines simply cannot be compared to Vioxx, oxycontin, HRT, or Avandia. I wouldn't even call them an airbag, as someone did upthread, because that implies that they are an antidote. Vaccines, especially MMR, absolutely prevent disease. It's not a theory or a conspiracy, or a get rich quick scheme.

Communicable diseases aren't just some scary bedtime story from the olden days, that doesn't affect modern, educated, "Starbucks carrying", God-fearing activists in rich nations." Diseases don't care if you drink Starbucks in a rich nation, or pray on your knees in the squalor of a third world nation. If the person is susceptible, the disease infects and sickens, and spreads itself.

I personally believe that anyone in a rich nation like the U.S. who does not immunize themselves or their children is profoundly irresponsible and negligent, and I won't apologize for that. Epidemiologists won't, either. They are frustrated and alarmed at what is going on with "anti-vaxers", who are single handedly reversing more than 50 years of progress in the area of measles eradication-- in only 10-15 years. THAT's what is important to every person on earth.

And again, if we confine the conversation only to the MMR vaccine, with over 50 YEARS of safety and 99%+ effectiveness, there is simply no valid medical reason for healthy people to refuse vaccination for themselves or their children. And the rest is simply ignorant paranoia, or magical thinking and supersition, IMO. It is no different than my earlier comparison about virgin cleansing.

No one here has responded to my earlier question. What do people think about practicing medical professionals refusing to vaccinate themselves or their children? Is that their "right"? How about police and firefighters? The military? Politicians?

Should we insist that these public servants immunize themselves and their families, so as not to spread disease to sick people and immunologically vulnerable people? While upholding the "rights" of others to spread disease and put themselves and others at risk?

Should we stop requiring sick people with communicable diseases and exposures to be quarantined, because we are infringing on their "rights" to move freely in society?

Should we stop tracking down sex partners of people diagnosed with STDs, because the infected carrier has "rights" to privacy and "rights" to have sex with and infect whomever they wish?

Why is it "okay" to pretend to tolerate the irresponsible and negligent decisions of "anti-vaxers", when we don't tolerate the above situations? Just imagine for a minute a handful of unvaccinated health care workers and a measles outbreak. Is there ANYONE who thinks that is perfectly okay, or that that health care worker has a "right" to refuse vaccination and spread disease to their patients? We're not talking about something like refusing vioxx, HRT, or birth control medications. We're talking about intentionally encouraging widespread communicable disease, and pretending that it's some kind of politically correct conversation. It's foolish and ignorant.

I have personally seen widespread outbreaks of communicable diseases in third world countries. I have seen people in developing nations walk days, and dozens of miles, to line up outside clinics to get immunizations for themselves and their kids. If these people knew that there are people in "rich nations" INTENTIONALLY refusing vaccines and spreading previously eradicated diseases because of some ridiculous and misguided ideas about religion and "rights", they'd be horrified to the core of their souls, and on their knees in the dirt praying to God that these people would change their minds and stop the spread of disease on earth. As we all should be, IMO.

All this "political correctness" is going to continue to sicken and even kill some people, and create lifelong complications for others, like mental disability, deafness, etc.

IMO, a person's "rights" stop being "rights" when the exercise of those rights harm, or have the potential to kill, vulnerable other people. That's when that "right" becomes profoundly socially irresponsible, IMO.

I'm going to post this again, in case any missed it above.

http://www.academia.edu/2344148/Fre...vaccinators_be_penalized_for_the_harm_they_do

I am not going to convince someone who is a part of the medical establishment that a lot of their education is hogwash.
The information you are referencing is coming straight from Big Pharm research. They decide the education of the medical establishment.
As far as the medical professionals being vaccinated. I think it should be their choice. You really think it is ok for these criminal organizations to decide what is injected into the bodies of citizens?
I am Canadian and I have a constitutional right to refuse any medical procedure and that includes vaccinations. If some Doctor comes at me with a needle saying I have no choice but to be injected, I might just have to make a short trip over the border and get myself a Glock because that is not going to happen.

You asked what those prescription meds have in common with vaccines? Simple. They are manufactured and marketed by the same criminal organizations. It has been proven time and time gain that they lie, cheat, steal and manipulate to get their drugs into the hands of citizens. I don't believe they are going to be honest and trustworthy only when it comes to vaccines. Nope, they lost that trust a long time ago.
There are many many ways to enhance your immune system without drugs, without side effects, without paying hand over fist for it. The problem is, it takes some leg work and time commitment to figure it out.
But it's your health, it is worth it! Your own health should be the number one priority in your life. But it takes work!

 

[Margo/Mom]

They tend to be very selective in their research. They find the study(ies) that fit their theory. One doctor who practices alot of this quackery is Dr. Mercola, but I'm not sure if he's the one touting the DTAp/autism theory or not.
I don't find them ignorant, just misguided. If you read my post, I have 3 friends and a niece who are anti-vaxxers. I don't tell them when we get our flu vaccines yearly.

In poking around the web to learn about MMS (another thread--removal of Stanley children from their family), I became aware that the parents of children with autism have been targeted by that particular hoax as well. A couple of folks are making money off of selling that particular "cure." Having personally known a few people and families of people on the autistic spectrum I full understand how incredibly frustrating it can be to raise such children. Depending on the severity such families can become incredibly isolated from others--simply because their lives are locked into the narrow environmental requirements of their children--typically with very few respite opportunities. Perhaps it is the combination of frustration and isolation that makes them such fertile ground for a variety of snake-oil peddlers.

 

[gitana1]

I have no clue why the states would allow religious or personal beliefs exceptions.
We don't allow religious or personal beliefs exceptions when it comes to treatment for children.
Why allow for vaccinations?
These exceptions provide a loophole allowing infectious diseases to spread.

Mmost medical treatment of children is not forced. Only if it is unequivocally life saving and the child will certainly die without it. The fact that there are exemptions for vaccines tells us something. Billions of people have foregone vaccines and did not die as a result. (Like my mom who had whooping couch, measles, mumps, etc., as a child). But forego chemo when you have Hodgkins Lymphoma? Refuse to have surgery when there is a clear bowel obstruction? Refuse antibiotics when you're failing from infection? You WILL die.

So parents are free to refuse blood transfusions for their kids under certain circumstances and are free to choose certain treatments over others. But when death is certain if they fail to act, that is when their constitutional rights as parents may be overridden by the government. But only then.

 

[i.b.nora]

http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_27437392/why-religions-dont-oppose-vaccines

Why religions don't oppose vaccines
San Jose Mercury News
By Lisa M. Kriegerlkrieger@mercurynews.com
POSTED: 01/31/2015 09:38:24 PM PST | UPDATED: 2 DAYS AGO

All states except Mississippi and West Virginia allow parents to opt out of their children's otherwise-mandatory vaccinations for religious reasons.

In California, those with a religious exemption don't even need to seek a health practitioner's signature, unlike others. That's because of a vaccine policy change implemented by Gov. Jerry Brown.

But a review of religious policy reveals that few, if any, religions actually oppose vaccination, according to research by the California Immunization Coalition, a nonprofit, public-private partnership dedicated to full immunization protection for all Californians.

These are the policies of various religions on vaccination, according to research by the coalition and others:​

Read the article ...

 

[Yoda]

Mmost medical treatment of children is not forced. Only if it is unequivocally life saving and the child will certainly die without it. The fact that there are exemptions for vaccines tells us something. Billions of people have foregone vaccines and did not die as a result. (Like my mom who had whooping couch, measles, mumps, etc., as a child). But forego chemo when you have Hodgkins Lymphoma? Refuse to have surgery when there is a clear bowel obstruction? Refuse antibiotics when you're failing from infection? You WILL die.

So parents are free to refuse blood transfusions for their kids under certain circumstances and are free to choose certain treatments over others. But when death is certain if they fail to act, that is when their constitutional rights as parents may be overridden by the government. But only then.

Thank you. You answered a question I had. I wondered how the decisions were made, but never really looked into it.

 

[oh_gal]

Yes. And perhaps older moms with "degraded eggs" are creating children more susceptible to autism via triggers like repeated vaccines.


Autism seems to affect children of highly intelligent and more educated parents more often.
We can scoff at anti-vaxxers as yuppies or ignorant but interestingly, they actually tend to be more educated people who've done a ton of research: http://www.chicagomag.com/city-life...ne-Refusal-More-Prevalent-Among-the-Affluent/


It seems the very population who are affected most by autism are the same ones who distrust the vaccine.

What age mom constitutes "degraded eggs?" I had my first child at 22. My second at 39, and my last at 41. None of my children have any type of disability, or cognitive impairment.

Just wanted to throw that out there, to allay the fears of any women who might feel they have "degraded eggs".

 

[gitana1]

Thank you for this story/comment gitana1. I enjoyed reading it. The truth is most of my bias against vaccines is not against the vaccines themselves but against Big Pharma. I used to read a lot of the research, but as evidenced by recent scandals by Merck, Pfizer, Glaxo etc.. The research doesn't mean a thing because it is manipulated if not outright fabricated by these companies. They have all been sued(and lost or settled) or been brought up on criminal charges because of those very reasons.
Do the vaccines work? I am guessing many of them probably do "work".
But at what cost? What are we letting these criminal organizations inject into our bodies. They have the FDA in their pockets, so we know The FDA isn't protecting us. They have the doctors in their pockets, so you have to look far and wide to find a doctor who knows the truth. They have more lobbyists in their pockets than any other industry on the planet, so we know the government isn't going to protect us.
I mean, because of a couple of heroic whistleblowers, we know the NSA has been spying on us for years illegally. Do we really think the pharmaceutical industry is only thinking about the health of the population?

Have you heard of Vioxx? If not, look it up.
Have you heard of the Hormone Replacement Therapy farce? If not, look it up
How about not too long ago when it was guaranteed OxyContin was not addictive. Yes this is what was being told to the doctors prescribing it.
How about Avandia? Have you heard about what happened there? If not, look it up.

I could go on and on and on. But I know most of you are not ready to hear it. But these are just a handful of the examples telling us that Big Pharma is as corrupt an industry as there is. I am not speaking of mistakes or oversights here. These are outright lies and manipulations that these companies purposefully executed for the sole purpose of making more money(actually there may be other purposes, but not getting into that here). Western Medicine and health care are a farce. Excellent for many acute conditions and traumatic injuries, but completely lost when it comes to health, wellness and life long vitality.

Please, start researching it yourselves. This is important stuff.

However, vaccines are used in every country that is not in bed with big pharma. I mean, if you could show a link between big pharma and all the nations using the vaccine, I'd be more apt to think that perhaps there's something there. But every nation with socialized medicine, getting pharmaceuticals for very little compared to here, use vaccines and have similar schedules to ours (although they do vary by country). It's not just the US. And aid organizations like UNICEF, as well as WHO, etc., routinely go to third world nations, that beg for access to vaccines, and vaccinate for free, having negotiating low cost purchases of vaccines, which aid orgs and wealthier nations pay for.

Logically, then, these organizations do it because it works. Not because they are part of a vast, money-making conspiracy. http://www.news-medical.net/news/20...ndelaer-Chief-of-Immunization-for-UNICEF.aspx

Snipped for focus.

No one ever died from "not" taking Vioxx, HRT, oxycontin, or Avandia. And no "bystanders" around the people who DIDN'T take Vioxx, HRT, oxycontin, and Avandia ever got sick or died.

Vaccines simply cannot be compared to Vioxx, oxycontin, HRT, or Avandia. I wouldn't even call them an airbag, as someone did upthread, because that implies that they are an antidote. Vaccines, especially MMR, absolutely prevent disease. It's not a theory or a conspiracy, or a get rich quick scheme.

Communicable diseases aren't just some scary bedtime story from the olden days, that doesn't affect modern, educated, "Starbucks carrying", God-fearing activists in rich nations." Diseases don't care if you drink Starbucks in a rich nation, or pray on your knees in the squalor of a third world nation. If the person is susceptible, the disease infects and sickens, and spreads itself.

I personally believe that anyone in a rich nation like the U.S. who does not immunize themselves or their children is profoundly irresponsible and negligent, and I won't apologize for that. Epidemiologists won't, either. They are frustrated and alarmed at what is going on with "anti-vaxers", who are single handedly reversing more than 50 years of progress in the area of measles eradication-- in only 10-15 years. THAT's what is important to every person on earth.

And again, if we confine the conversation only to the MMR vaccine, with over 50 YEARS of safety and 99%+ effectiveness, there is simply no valid medical reason for healthy people to refuse vaccination for themselves or their children. And the rest is simply ignorant paranoia, or magical thinking and supersition, IMO. It is no different than my earlier comparison about virgin cleansing.

No one here has responded to my earlier question. What do people think about practicing medical professionals refusing to vaccinate themselves or their children? Is that their "right"? How about police and firefighters? The military? Politicians?

Should we insist that these public servants immunize themselves and their families, so as not to spread disease to sick people and immunologically vulnerable people? While upholding the "rights" of others to spread disease and put themselves and others at risk?

Should we stop requiring sick people with communicable diseases and exposures to be quarantined, because we are infringing on their "rights" to move freely in society?

Should we stop tracking down sex partners of people diagnosed with STDs, because the infected carrier has "rights" to privacy and "rights" to have sex with and infect whomever they wish?

Why is it "okay" to pretend to tolerate the irresponsible and negligent decisions of "anti-vaxers", when we don't tolerate the above situations? Just imagine for a minute a handful of unvaccinated health care workers and a measles outbreak. Is there ANYONE who thinks that is perfectly okay, or that that health care worker has a "right" to refuse vaccination and spread disease to their patients? We're not talking about something like refusing vioxx, HRT, or birth control medications. We're talking about intentionally encouraging widespread communicable disease, and pretending that it's some kind of politically correct conversation. It's foolish and ignorant.

I have personally seen widespread outbreaks of communicable diseases in third world countries. I have seen people in developing nations walk days, and dozens of miles, to line up outside clinics to get immunizations for themselves and their kids. If these people knew that there are people in "rich nations" INTENTIONALLY refusing vaccines and spreading previously eradicated diseases because of some ridiculous and misguided ideas about religion and "rights", they'd be horrified to the core of their souls, and on their knees in the dirt praying to God that these people would change their minds and stop the spread of disease on earth. As we all should be, IMO.

All this "political correctness" is going to continue to sicken and even kill some people, and create lifelong complications for others, like mental disability, deafness, etc.

IMO, a person's "rights" stop being "rights" when the exercise of those rights harm, or have the potential to kill, vulnerable other people. That's when that "right" becomes profoundly socially irresponsible, IMO.

I'm going to post this again, in case any missed it above.

http://www.academia.edu/2344148/Fre...vaccinators_be_penalized_for_the_harm_they_do

I agree with much of what you've said. But our rates of death and severe complications from things like the measles are much lower than in third world countries because our medical systems are more advanced.

Also, for the reasons I outlined earlier, we retain the right for the most part to decide things like vaccinations. Fire fighters, medical professionals, etc., do not have to vaccinate their kids. Nor themselves. They retain the legal right not to. Now if they don;t vaccinate themselves, they can't come to work and that's fair because they are dealing with various populations and encounter people wkth various illnesses. But there is no law forcing them to vaccine themselves and certainly not their kids.

Also, we don't quarantine hardly anyone with a communicable disease. Communicable just means contagious. Which includes colds and flu. Quarantines are very, very scarcely used in developed nations particularly because they are so intrusive.

So actually, we indeed tolerate much of what you've stated we don't.

 

[LinasK]

There are many many ways to enhance your immune system without drugs, without side effects, without paying hand over fist for it. The problem is, it takes some leg work and time commitment to figure it out.
But it's your health, it is worth it! Your own health should be the number one priority in your life. But it takes work!

I'm sorry, you can eat 100% organic, completely healthy, take all the possible vitamins and mineral supplements and you still won't have immunity from any of these diseases! It's not enough for your body to fight it off. Maybe once you're sick, eating right will help you get healthier more quickly...

 

[Hiandmighty]

BW, the anti-vaccine doctor in arizona isnt a MD-- he's a DO and there is an active investigation file open on him by the AZ medical board.

 

[LinasK]

What age mom constitutes "degraded eggs?" I had my first child at 22. My second at 39, and my last at 41. None of my children have any type of disability, or cognitive impairment.

Just wanted to throw that out there, to allay the fears of any women who might feel they have "degraded eggs".

According to RE's between 35-40. There is a sharp decline in your fertility, especially after 40. Also depends on the health of the particular woman.

 

[LinasK]

BW, the anti-vaccine doctor in arizona isnt a MD-- he's a DO and there is an active investigation file open on him by the AZ medical board.

A DO is still an MD, just with a different title. I asked my DO, and I have a nephew who is a DO. They get additional training in non-traditional areas like acupuncture that MD's don't.

 

[oh_gal]

A DO is still an MD, just with a different title. I asked my DO, and I have a nephew who is a DO. They get additional training in non-traditional areas like acupuncture that MD's don't.

Yes, I believe they take a "whole person" approach to healing. Or "whole body", or something similar.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I didnt say he wasnt a doctor. I said he wasnt an MD and the Medical board of Arizona has an open active investigation on him.

(Clarifying).

 

[K_Z]

I am not going to convince someone who is a part of the medical establishment that a lot of their education is hogwash.
The information you are referencing is coming straight from Big Pharm research. They decide the education of the medical establishment.
As far as the medical professionals being vaccinated. I think it should be their choice. You really think it is ok for these criminal organizations to decide what is injected into the bodies of citizens?
I am Canadian and I have a constitutional right to refuse any medical procedure and that includes vaccinations. If some Doctor comes at me with a needle saying I have no choice but to be injected, I might just have to make a short trip over the border and get myself a Glock because that is not going to happen.

You asked what those prescription meds have in common with vaccines? Simple. They are manufactured and marketed by the same criminal organizations. It has been proven time and time gain that they lie, cheat, steal and manipulate to get their drugs into the hands of citizens. I don't believe they are going to be honest and trustworthy only when it comes to vaccines. Nope, they lost that trust a long time ago.
There are many many ways to enhance your immune system without drugs, without side effects, without paying hand over fist for it. The problem is, it takes some leg work and time commitment to figure it out.
But it's your health, it is worth it! Your own health should be the number one priority in your life. But it takes work!

I can't agree with a single thing you've posted here.

I'm very sad, and sorry, for you and your family, living with this level of paranoia and misinformation about medical care, medical professionals, medical education, science, research, and medical manufacturing companies. It's possible that you or someone in your family might need help and medical care someday, in an accident, or otherwise. Health professionals are not the enemy, and I'm very sad that you feel that way.

Medical professionals and science are not the enemy. The real "enemy" is ignorance, crippled by fear, paranoia, and superstition.

 

[Hiandmighty]

"Dr. Jack Wolfson, a Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine, is under investigation by the Arizona Board of Osteopathic Examiners for several recent complaints, the agency confirmed to New Times."

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2015/02/anti_vaccination_doctor_jack_wolfson_phoenix_under_investigation_by_arizona_medical_board.php



(My speculation, because I've seen this before, is that this guy is bipolar and having an episode. He also looks amazingly like my best man at my wedding. Crazy alike. Like brothers.)