Members' Theories

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by JBRMod2, Mar 12, 2005.

  1. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    fridaybaker,
    Yes I reckon Patsy wrote the Ransom Note.

    I agree, Patsy was never a career criminal so avoiding forensic deposits will not be her forte.

    Here is the catch,if Patsy had left JonBenet in her bedroom,then any fibers linking Patsy can be attributed to her putting JonBenet to bed, etc.

    For Patsy this was the best staging strategy, moving JonBenet to the basement and depositing her fibers all over JonBenet, e.g.knots in ligature, sticky side of duct tape on JonBenet's lips, etc simply magnifies Patsy's role.

    Is this not the opposite of what should be intended?

    Your perspective might be described as highlighting what you consider to be transparent regarding Patsy, nothing wrong with that.

    Could this lead you to make erroneous conclusions about Patsy?

    If you think not, you should read or listen to Talking to Strangers by Malcolm Gladwell, its guaranteed to explain why Default To Truth as Gladwell describes it and alternatively termed as Naive Realism, i.e. its how we tend to view things the majority of the time, myself included, matters wrt Patsy.

    .
     
  2. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Userid,

    Maybe?

    JonBenet left semi-naked,deceased, in her bedroom might also suggest an intruder?

    Might it be that the rationale behind the Ransom Note, is that it explains why JonBenet's body goes from her bedroom down to the basement?

    The strategy was to divorce any events upstairs from those staged downstairs?

    .
     
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  3. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    I still don't think the body would have been enough to frame an intruder. If JBR was being chronically abused, they would want to cover that even further. Leaving her body with no note at all would open up questions -- to the parents -- as to whether there was a history of abuse, etc. The parents wanted to leave absolutely no doubt that someone else committed this crime; without the note, the police focus would turn inward (towards the parents) immediately.
     
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  4. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Userid,

    How does a ransom note explain away chronic abuse?

    Sure, but the default position would be an intruder? Would nice, wealthy parents like the Ramsey's be involved in homicide, you gotta be kidding !

    With or without the ransom note the resident Ramsey's will have been suspects anyway. You have to ask why did they assign a Detective with Drug Dealing expertise to investigate a homicide?

    Although the Ransom Note highlights the obvious role of an intruder, I reckon its main purpose was to explain how JonBenet arrived in the wine-cellar?

    Homicide in the wine-cellar or a bedroom is still a homicide, with or without a ransom note.

    .
     
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  5. FangDelGato

    FangDelGato Professional Cat Herder

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    Comminuted!!! Means broken in more than two pieces. Sorry, but if we're going for accuracy we MUST be accurate.
     
  6. FangDelGato

    FangDelGato Professional Cat Herder

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    "And hence" seriously???!
     
  7. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    The note would cover it up better than simply leaving her "half-naked" as you supposed in your prior post. Again, leaving her in that condition would have led to more questions for the parents. Even re-dressing her and allowing her to be found was not an option for the R's -- but they couldn't simply hide her somewhere in the house without the note. The note served many purposes here: to frame it as an intruder and to make it appear that JBR was anywhere but still inside the home. The R's didn't want the police to do a thorough search of the house and find the body; they thought the note would perhaps dissuade police to not search the home. The police still searched, but they didn't "tear the house apart" so to speak, as evidenced by the police officer who didn't even bother to find the light switch in the wine cellar. Had there been no note, it's a safe bet police would have searched the entire house more thoroughly, including the wine cellar.

    We know this answer already -- because it was Christmas day and they were understaffed. Also, the R's would have been even more suspected had there been no ransom note.

    Disagree. I do not think the R's wanted police (or anyone) to find the body. I think they wanted to dispose of the body in some way, after the police had left the residence. When they ended up staying all day and when LA made FW and JR search the basement, JR panicked and "found" the body, because at that point, he had no other choice (with FW there).
     
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  8. Tobiano8th

    Tobiano8th Active Member

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    i keep coming back to this (and the lack of cooperation of R's)... alot of evidence is very very muddled. but i don't see any alternative to PR writing the note

    why such a long note though? no matter who wrote it
     
  9. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. What I mean by that is, this is yet another reason why an intruder wouldn't have written this note. An intruder wouldn't have to make it this long.

    Now, why would the R's need to make it this long? I think it's because they wanted to make it as convincing as possible. In their minds, "convincing" meant "detailed." To make the note detailed, they had to make it long. Again, an intruder wouldn't need to make this note "convincing."

    Unlike typical ransom notes, this note was trying to frame a story -- that is why it's so long.
     
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  10. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Tobiano8th,
    I agree Patsy probably authored the ransom note.

    Why so long, not because the Ramsey's had a plan going forward, i.e. they could not predict the outcome. It was so long for staging effect, it contained french terms, e.g. attache, nearly every sentence is intended to offer false clues.

    Patsy was the Lit. Graduate, she know how to structure a document, be she made the mistake of allowing herself to think everything she wrote would be taken seriously, where its eventual length demonstrates a beginners error.

    I reckon the best way to view the Ransom Note is as a piece of staging, similar to how JonBenet was presented in the wine-cellar, wrapped in a blanket, wearing a gap top and her brothers longjohns and Patsy's niece's size-12 underwear, all designed to distract the concerned observer.

    The bottom line is the Ramsey's had a fair idea how LEA would react to a homicide but how about a ransom note along with the deceased left in the wine-cellar, suggesting the intruder never intended to remove JonBenet, they never knew!

    I agree, this is because Patsy was not a professional criminal, so she made basic mistakes in her staging, and later in statements to police interviewers.

    .
     
  11. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Userid,
    The Ransom Note is staging, its not intended to deflect LEA procedures, since the Ramsey's never knew what would transpire. There were three possible outcomes:

    1. Police searched the house and discovered JonBenet.

    2. Police searched the house and never discovered JonBenet.

    3. Police never searched the house so never found JonBenet, i.e. she is assumed abducted!

    Patently outcome 2. arose, and John Ramsey aware he and Patsy could not flee on his private plane interstate, decided to find JonBenet. Quite possibly he might have tampered with the forensic evidence in the wine-cellar earlier that morning, including possibly moving JonBenet into the wine-cellar from another nearby location, as Fleet White said he looked in the wine-cellar early that morning and did not observe JonBenet wrapped in a white blanket!

    I reckon the Ramsey's thought outcome 1. was the most likely, so they fabricated the ransom note as part of a staged abduction scenario simply to act as a smokescreen?

    .
     
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  12. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    Disagree: staging itself is intended to deflect LE procedures. You're staging it so that you deflect their attention from what really happened. In doing so, you're hoping they change their entire investigative strategy.

    The R's wrote the note after they knew what had transpired (with regard to the crime itself), not before.

    I think they were hoping for scenario 3. I do not think they were hoping for scenario 2, even though it did happen. There would have been no point to write the note as a "smokescreen" in my view. The fact the child was "missing" in the first place would have been a sufficient smokescreen enough (i.e. the phone call to police).

    Let's look at it this way and ask this question: why wouldn't PR call police and simply say she "found my daughter in the wine cellar and she's not breathing! A stranger must have broken in! She's been attacked and her hands are tied. My husband is performing CPR. Send help!" etc.? The R's wouldn't have even needed the note -- they could have simply said, they went to wake up JBR when they discovered her missing; they searched high and low (like any normal family would) until they found her in the wine cellar. This would actually make more sense, because then JR can still muck up the evidence and crime scene, tending to the body before police would even arrive. It's a hard question to answer, but again, I believe that their initial plan wasn't to have the body discovered; it was to get police to look outside the home.
     
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  13. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Userid,
    Sorta, a homicide became a staged abduction then what?

    Steve Thomas in his book, second last page of the section Little Miss Christmas states:
    Outcome 3. seems to be a popular theory, some add a twist, suggesting they would dispose of JonBenet once the police left?

    Maybe, for how long, consider no ransom phone call, etc. What do BPD do then?

    The Ramseys could not use the strategy you suggest since with a de facto homicide the parents would have been arrested on the spot.

    Still their gambit worked as BPD were totally unprepared for a Christmas homicide, and the media firestorm that ensued.

    So John was ready flee by plane interstate, was this a conclusion to his plan or an ad hoc addition once he realized JonBenet had not been discovered?

    Fleeing interstate means BPD would double down on searching the house and discovering JonBenet would result in arrest warrants being issued for Patsy and John.

    The thing is if John and Patsy are innocent why flee?

    .
     
  14. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. That's why they needed the note.

    The whole plane business was done on the fly in my view. Just another indication of JR getting restless that police hadn't left the house yet. His fight-or-flight instinct kicked in, and all he wanted to do was get out of there and away from police.

    You say, "fleeing interstate would mean that the police would double down and find JBR" (paraphrasing). Not necessarily; and who knows what JR's thought process was. Perhaps his thought process was: if my entire family is out of the house, the police would have to leave the house. Or perhaps at that point, he was simply desperate to get out of there (i.e. "the walls were closing in," etc.) and didn't think about anything else but fleeing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
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  15. TheAudCar

    TheAudCar New Member

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    My boyfriend & I have this theory that John was sexual abusing JonBenet. I mean she did pageants, she was beautiful, and with so much pedophiles around why couldn't he be one too? So you have that going on, meanwhile you have Patsy who's jealous of how beautiful her daughter was and jealous of the attention JonBenet gets. Imagine feeling like you have to compete for your husband's attention. I get it might seem far off, but stay with me. Patsy obviously knew about John's doings with JonBenet. Patsy also favoring Burke, who not to mention had mental illness correct? Bipolar disorder or something like that, I remember from watching a documentary.

    This is how it went down that night. Burke angry with his sister for who knows what, maybe that he has to share pineapple with his sister, fighting for his father's attention, or anyone's attention really since it was always on JonBenet, hit her on the back of the head with the flashlight. Seeing her bleeding and unconscious runs to his parents. Their his parents, so they needed to cover for their child, but in a way where none of them are suspected. Patsy then writes the notes, which everyone already knows she wrote. While John places her body in the basement and strangles her to make sure that she is dead because how are they going to explain this to doctors?? an accident?? Burke would've been institutionalized most likely. Patsy placed the call to 911, which was literally the most sus thing she could do like "we have a kidnapping"?? My mom would be sobbing and panicked screaming "my daughter is MISSING", but OK cool, calm & collected Patsy.

    I think the old blood found in her underwear was from John sexually abusing her.

    I haven't relistened to all the details in this case in a while, so I might be a little off. Even when I was little and hearing about JonBenet for the first time- how I became a crime junkie- I always thought Burke was 100% the one who initiated her murder, whether it was intentional or not. I believe he hasn't talked about it still, but even if he has I'm sure it's some made up bs because who would tell anybody that they were responsible for their sister's death when it's been a cold case for so long.

    Also maybe it's just me, but John Ramsey is remarried I believe. Have y'all ever wondered if his second wife knows everything? Idk if I was marrying a man who's daughter's murder still remains unsolved, I would get all the information I could out of him or at least die trying since I know that Old Johnny Boy was definitely involved.

    RIP JonBenet, you were truly a beautiful child who had so much life to look forward to- I hope she gets justice so she can truly rest in peace
     
  16. Swirlz

    Swirlz Well-Known Member

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    If you believe John was sexually abusing JonBenet, why do you believe it was Burke rather than John, who killed her?
     
  17. TheAudCar

    TheAudCar New Member

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    In one of the documentaries, they ran a test where a boy that was similarly built to Burke hit a skull on the back with a flashlight. The results were basically identical to JonBenet and her skull fracture. It could be John, but Burke had situations with JonBenet where he harmed her or wanted to harm her.
     
  18. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Userid,

    So you reckon JonBenet was hidden away down in the basement so to backup an abduction scenario, i.e. no JonBenet: She's been Kidnapped?

    You bet BPD would get a search warrant and check the whole house out. No JonBenet and the Ramsey's have just flown off into the sunset, BPD would get the sniffer dogs in and find JonBenet, then arrest warrants would have been issued for both parents!

    From memory JR told JAR on the phone that he found JonBenet approximately at 11:AM which matches the timeline for JR not being able to flee interstate, so plans his next move, e.g. moving JonBenet into the wine-cellar so she can be found along with other forensic evidence removed from another location. Fleet White looked into the Wine-Cellar early that morning and he never saw any white blanket, pink barbie gown, never mind JonBenet! JR was unaware that Fleet White had looked into the Wine-Cellar.



    This suggests JR's original plan had failed so he wants to bailout, denied this option, he elects to find JonBenet. Looks like JR is behaving re actively to events rather than anticipating them as part of a predetermined staging schema?

    .
     
  19. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    TheAudCar,
    You could be right. Since Burke may have seriously injured JonBenet, they might even have been Playing Doctor who knows? But JR knows there is stuff needed to be accounted for, i.e. internal chronic injuries, so he assists in the staging along with Patsy who appears to have asphyxiated JonBenet?

    So all three Ramsey's have skeletons in the closet, so they collude to fabricate a version of events that lays the blame on a fictitious intruder?

    It might just be a messy case with Colorado's Child Privacy Statutes determining if BR was involved they are never going to tell us?

    We know JR and PR were since the GJ leveled counts of child abuse at both parents.


    .
     
  20. TheAudCar

    TheAudCar New Member

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    Right, I mean since Burke was a child, even if they had the evidence to prove this, would CPS even be allowed to say since he's a minor? I believe that PR & JR would have colluded on JonBenet's murder if Burke was the one who initiated it.

    I'm new to this but who is GJ?
     

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