Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox Conviction Overturned #22

[Nova]

Quirky Knox ... only arrested because she was "too pretty" (her words from her diary). It seems that not only were the mobs in the street outside the courtroom outaged with the appeal verdict, but plenty of journalists are coming forward to call a spade a spade.

"As she sprinted out of court for the last time, Knox made a pretty spectacle, sobbing and sniffling as onlookers mobbed her. But then, I caught sight of something Knox didn’t want me to see. She grinned, and heartily.

...

The truth is murkier than a Florida swamp.

Following in the footsteps of her role model, Casey Anthony -- another 20-something hottie, acquitted in Orlando for the murder of her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee -- Knox played the “I’m too pretty to kill” card.

Knox convinced the majority of the planet that she was nailed for no reasons other than she was too attractive, too weird, too American. She was freed for the same reasons. A brilliant strategy."

...

During the police investigation, Knox and her boyfriend and co-defendant, Sollecito, did not freak out in fear that, had Knox been home at the time of Kercher’s murder, she could have been the victim. The pair of kooky cretins kissed, hugged and made out like horny schoolkids, right in the lockup. Knox did cartwheels."

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/gals_too_pretty_to_convict_hRuTL5LacO68j6ljs1jUIL

Perhaps someone could suggest a better reading list for you, otto. In the future, whenever you encounter the phrase "pair of kooky cretins", I recommend you set the tabloid down and look for better reading material.

We've all see videos of the kissing. It isn't kooky or "horny." It is precisely the sort of gesture one might employ to reassure a young woman who realizes she too might be dead if she had been home.

AK grinned because she was finally free after four years of false accusation and imprisonment? Shocking!

***

otto, nobody expects you to admit you were wrong about this case. Resorting to this nonsense in yet another attempt to prove you were right isn't helping.

 

[Nova]

I followed both cases and, in my opinion, both women got away with murder. In both cases, the juries were looking for something that they didn't need - something along the lines of a video clip of the murder.

Where have you been all summer? Apparently you didn't notice that the proceedings in Perugia over the past several months were disastrous for the prosecution.

Although the Anthony prosecution had its problems due to the length of time that elapsed before the corpse was discovered, there was no equivalent in terms of revelations of LE misconduct.

Comparing the two cases is childish.

 

[Nova]

Knox's cartwheels at the police station are not trivial. It was absolutely the wrong thing to do. It is constantly downplayed as being perfectly normal behavior for a 20 year old woman during a murder investigation. There is absolutely nothing normal about it, and one does have to wonder why Knox was acting up as she was. She wasn't meditating per yoga and certainly she wasn't so restless that she had to flip cartwheels, so why was she doing it in front of the male officers? Would she stand up in the middle of her university classes if she was restless and flip cartwheels? I doubt it. There was a reason for her cartwheels and it was not because she was restless, or doing spiritual meditating.

Sorry, but cartwheels ARE trivial. You're just trying to inflate them into something significant because there is no other evidence left against AK or RS.

 

[Nova]

Would you flip cartwheels during a university lecture that lasted more than an hour ... just get up ... ask people to move aside ... flip some cartwheels, fall into the splits ... then sit down and expect that this was perfectly acceptable?

:sigh: I have seen college students do exactly that. My department implemented rules against it to stop the interruptions.

 

[marlame]

otto,

I find it interesting that given so much attention from Dr. Giobbi on Amanda's behavior, the first mention of cartwheels and splits is not until early 2009 during the trial. Amanda's testimony was that an officer commented on her flexibility. There are several sources of information on the subject of what actually happened, including articles by Frank Sfarzo and Steve Shay. Putting all of it together, I think that a possible scenario is the following: An officer is sent to chat up Knox, partly to divert her attention away from where Sollecito is. He finds Ms. Knox doing yoga poses, and he comments on her flexibility, possibly asking if she can do the splits. She obliges, and then we don't hear about it again until the trial. I might find the account given by PLE more credible if their noses were not so long already.

BBM...Very well said, Chris! :aktion:

 

[ohiogirl]

Give me one good reason why a 20 year old woman would flip cartwheels at a police station in Seattle while giving witness statements during a murder investigation. Surely all judgement is not so feeble that this is considered normal in Seattle.

cite?

 

[ohiogirl]

Give me one good reason why a 20 year old woman would flip cartwheels at a police station in Seattle while giving witness statements during a murder investigation. Surely all judgement is not so feeble that this is considered normal in Seattle.

because she was guilty of a satanic ritual murder or a sex game gone wrong murder.
Guilty murderers always turn cartwheels when they are awaiting an investigation about their obvious participation in a "Foxy Knoxy sex murderess"
game gone wrong.
I see it all the time. Casey Anthony turned cartwheels. Didn't you see the video?
Karla Homoulka turned cartwheels while professing her innocence.
The Memphis 3, truthfully, were turning cartwheels all these long years awaiting justice.
Heck, if I was guilty of murder, the only thing I would do is turn cartwheels, because that proves guilt beyond any reasonable doubt, don't cha know.

 

[ohiogirl]

:sigh: I have seen college students do exactly that. My department implemented rules against it to stop the interruptions.

You got that right.

 

[stilettos]

:sigh: I have seen college students do exactly that. My department implemented rules against it to stop the interruptions.

But, but, but Nova..you promised not to tell! :rocker: I always do my cartwheels with 5 1/2 inch platform stilettos...I must be guilty of something. Being irrepressible??

 

[ks1]

Nerves? She had not been called in yet. It really is a trivial point.:seeya:

Stress? My sister was in gymnastics and must have done 100 cartwheels per night for years. When our Grandmother passed away (she lived with us), after the news was given to us she went to the backyard to do cartwheels. Nobody thought it odd then and she was in college. She continued to do cartwheels, backflips on the trampoline, etc., every day until she was in her thirties. She's 50 now and if the grandkids beg her, she will still do it. I could see her at 21 doing cartwheels in the police station while waiting to reduce stress. Myself, I would just go outside and have a cigarette.

 

[ohiogirl]

The cartwheels always give it away.

 

[Tugela]

You see, my friend, I don't believe a word that pops out of Knoxy's mouth. After two hours of questioning as a witness, out popped accusations of rape and murder against the black guy, her boss, Patrick Lumumba (she has been found guilty of doing this all by herself) because she fully expected to be let go. The Cook, Candace Dempsey, states this in her book. Knox fully expected to be released after accusing an innocent man of murder (like in the CSI shows).

Knox wasn't wetting her pants. She had just finished dinner with Sollecito at his friend's flat. She had a gap year and a year of university, he was older ... she was not naive to the world. She wasn't even asked to come to the police station but came anyway because she was staying at Sollecito's apt. (no where to go), flipped some cartwheels before splitzing ... but then, there she was, blurting out whopper lies two hours after questions started, whopper lies that her mother and police overheard in jail... yet Knox remained silent for two weeks. Doesn't that sound just like an innocent person.

And you know this because you were there? Or because some people who in all probability are masking their own incompetence and/or abuses say so?

You have no idea what she was subjected to or what she experienced.

If you think the reason for her being at the police station was so trivial, please explain why she was being interogated by a dozen plus officers? Explain why they didn't record this, even though they recorded just about everything else and even though this was probably the biggest case they had seen for a while. Why do they have different reasons for not recording? Their behaviour doesnt add up and smells fishy as hell. They are covering something up, that is clear, and it would have to be something to do with this "confession". Given that I would be way more inclined to believe her version of events that night than I would theirs.

 

[ohiogirl]

During the appeal, the prosecution tried to introduce a document regarding Vecchiotti and prior serious errors. The judge denied the request. Vecchiotti has a problematic history. The two academics from Rome have been involved in a total of 6 cases. On one case, involving Vecchiotti, two young women (about Knox's age) were raped by three men of wealthy families. A relative of one of the men was known to Vecchiotti. Vecchiotti testified that that particular man was dead based on the DNA identification of another person. It was discovered a short time later that Vecchiotti was completely wrong, and that the man was still alive and well.

That's a good reason to look at the two academics and question what exactly their role was. The big question, obviously, relates to whether their report was impartial or whether water was running uphill.

Still awaiting a response to this post. Vecchiotti's troubled history is more important than Mignini's conviction regarding abuse of office in another satanic murder case?

 

[SMK]

The most beautiful part of the “Not Guilty” verdict for Amanda and Raffaele came in the way Italian law demands that a verdict be couched. In Italy, a person can be found not guilty for two reasons (and I paraphrase the language):

1. Not guilty due to insufficient evidence. (Not guilty)
2. Not guilty due to the fact that the person did not commit the crime. (Innocent)

The first option is a passive statement,

but the second is a positive declaration of innocence, not simply lack of guilt. It says not that the prosecutors failed to meet their burden, but that the evidence proves that person charged did not commit the crime. It is not simply release, it is full exoneration. That is the verdict Amanda and Raffaele received: Not guilty because the evidence proved that they did not commit the crime.

http://gmancasefile.blogspot.com/

 

[ohiogirl]

http://gmancasefile.blogspot.com/

Very powerful statement.

 

[SkewedView]

http://gmancasefile.blogspot.com/

I find this bit interesting:

Sadly, the vindictiveness of a corrupt local system is not easily escaped. About half an hour after the initially popular verdict, a “spontaneous” anti-Knox demonstration began outside the court. In a striking bit of serendipity, the “spontaneous demonstrators” just happened to have megaphone with them that night, and all knew what they would chant. Though in jeans and polo shirts, the demonstrators (all men between their middle-20’s and late 40’s) bore startling, almost eerie individual resemblances to the dozens of policemen who had originally signed the warrants against Amanda and Raffaele, and who had been in court that night in a “show of solidarity.” Many of those officers are the same ones suing Amanda for claiming that she had been slapped in her interrogation. (The required tape of the interrogation of prisoners in Italy is inexplicably absent. Go figure.)

 

[Steft50]

I've tried not to judge peoples behavior during times of stress or what should be emotional periods. Mainly because of how I've seen both my family and those around me react to deaths.

When my M.I.L passed all my spouse wanted to do was have sex. LOL I was like eeewwww get away from me! Then he got drunk while I did the planning, coordinating with the family, the red cross, the MAC terminal in Frankfurt, our unit, unit HQ and AAFES because I ran the site exchange. I didn't get to react until we returned a month later....during that month I discovered I was pregnant. Sooo we had sad time and happy time all rolled up into one.

When my F.I.L passed, it again fell to me to do the arranging, only this time I had to get him sober enough to travel....and again, he wanted sex...ewwwwww not this time either buddy. According to my brother in law he was drunk the entire time, and stole some of his fathers meds before they could be collected and disposed of. So his answer to dealing with stress and grieving didn't really change who he was. A drunk who was willing to add pills to his need to escape.

When my Mom passed again I turned into the planner. I was in Denver and had to head home, while rounding up 3 kids who were at different locations around town, pack for at least two weeks, arrange what I needed to with my boss, and at 10 days before Christmas I had to deal with all that stuff too. Then I got to drive 10 hours to my brothers house. We kids, me, my bother and sister, spent the best part of two weeks stoned out of our heads. Appropriate...yeahh....probably not but it's what we did while we cleaned out her house so we could turn it over to the owner before the new year. I got to be emotional after every one and every thing else was taken care of.

One year and one day later the love of my life who I had been with for 6 years (no not my spouse) passed way of a sudden heart attack. I fell apart. Right there, in the family room, howling, screaming, bawling...I couldn't have planned to take a poop if I had needed to. People at my work wouldn't let me drive myself to the funeral and two of them went with me thank goodness. I cried at everything for months.

Two years of therapy later I learned that no one reacts the way they think they will and that reality is vastly different than expectations. I've only judged the behavior of two people involved in murder cases. FCA and Scott Peterson, not for the behavior but for the amount of time that behavior lasted. At some point emotions catch up, and for it to go on for as long as it did in those two cases was beyond strange.

 

[emyr]

You mean we are right back where we started???:furious:

Other forums are stating that it depends on whether or not this verdict is a 530.1 or 530.2 If the verdict is not guilty because they did not do it, then the appeal to the supreme court can only be about procedural issues (i.e. did Hellman not follow the legal code in some way). This kind of overturn is extremely rare. If it's a 530.2, not guilty because not enough evidence, then there is some more flexibility on the appeal, though it would still be atypical for the decision to be reversed.

Currently, everyone seems to be under the impression that this was a 530.1 verdict, i.e. not guilty because they didn't do it.

 

[emyr]

Yes. And it is as old as the hills. Why is it being assumed that Amanda wanted "the wrong kind of attention" from a male police officer??:waitasec::furious:

Because obviously a cold-blooded murdress and manipulator of men would know that the straight way to a police officer's heart is by turning a cartwheel in the lobby.

 

[Malkmus]

Still awaiting a response to this post. Vecchiotti's troubled history is more important than Mignini's conviction regarding abuse of office in another satanic murder case?

Ohiogirl, I responded to it. There is no troubled history for Vecchiotti:

I'm sorry, Otto, but you have been misled, like so many others, by the fantasies of yet another conspiracy theory. You'll see right on wiki page you linked, that the man whom the DNA tests were performed on died in 1994. 11 years later a prosecutor, not believing he was dead, had the body exhumed (sounds an awful like Mignini's Monster of Florence exhumation doesn't it) to see if it really was the same person. Vecchiotti performed the tests, concluded that it was the same man. Yes, she was removed from the case for knowing the aunt of the dead man. But her DNA analysis was never dis-proven.

If a conspiracy theory is all there is against Vecchiotti then I'm afraid that isn't much of anything. Not only that, but what has it got to do with the murder of Meredith Kercher? Nothing. No one has criticized Stefanoni on the work she did previous to this. And her mistakes in this case have been numerous and documented. What I find ironic, is that you were the one who chastised us for criticizing Stefanoni's work in the first place, saying you were above discrediting the scientists in this case. And now look...

And before you start bringing up the reasons the conspiracy theory against Andrea Ghira exist, let me note that they are as credible as the ones proving Bigfoot exists. Photos have popped up every now and then alleged to be him.

But since you brought it up, I went to PMF to understand it a bit more and the only thing over there regarding it was this post from Popper:


"Stefanoni, Torricelli and the others knew Vecchiotti ... if they thought they were not ok they should have said immediately not at the end (art 223 third comma you do not want an expert you ask, should say before)

Torricelli and Stefanoni should have said immediately to C+V they should analyse the small sample with new technology. C+V said we cannot analyse 5 picograms. If you have observation you make them. Tagliabracci for example said something. Stefanoni and Torricelli were close to me and said nothing. Now they want integration, too easy.

Since they said so much on Vecchiotti I went on internet and Vecchiotti takes care of very particular cases of DNA. Cristina Capoccini homicide, investigated father and son with the same Y, Vecchiotti analysed mytochondrial DNA, then Andrea Ghira with one of the murderer of Circeo
[POPPER: actually in this case she was then excluded as connected party as she knew an aunt of Ghira].

Dr Intini the boss of Stefanoni organized this. She mentions other cases to improve the rep of Vecchiotti."


http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=420&p=102253&hilit=Ghira#p102253