Mexico - Arlington TX Firefighter Elijah Snow, wed anniversary found dead at Cancun resort, Jul 2021

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by tamsidea, Jul 23, 2021.

  1. annpats

    annpats Well-Known Member

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    In order to fly a body back, it has to be embalmed first. They are international air rules. <modsnip>

    As far as I know, an autopsy in the USA after an embalming would be challenging to find clues, if it could even happen. The organs would likely be removed and the body would be covered in various chemicals.
     
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  2. anonypotomous

    anonypotomous Well-Known Member

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  3. Bit of hope

    Bit of hope Have a nice day!

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    Just checked...most countries have this rules of embalming...thank you. Valuable information in case of....
     
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  4. abstr

    abstr Well-Known Member

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    In the US, autopsies can and are performed after embalming, whether by officials or private autopsy firms. Organs are not removed during embalming.
     
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  5. Bit of hope

    Bit of hope Have a nice day!

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    Makes me think...was his wife well informed...I really don't know....I'm so happy I had never this kind of experience. Knocking on wood. So many documents needed..so many rules.
     
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  6. annpats

    annpats Well-Known Member

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    Did it happen in his case? Would the travel insurance cover it, or something else? I can imagine it'd be at a huge cost.
     
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  7. MimosaMornings

    MimosaMornings Well- Known Member

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  8. Tower

    Tower Well-Known Member

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    <modsnip - quoted post has been removed to review the source>

    The stepfather stated in MSM he would have just relieved himself anywhere, but he was on the grounds of two fancy resorts. If he saw a bathroom, I think he would use it. We would have our answer if an employee admitted to locking the bathroom at midnight, thinking no one was inside. But they could be charged with negligence and the resort may be sued, so I don’t believe we will ever know.

    Of course, jmo, having treated many trauma victims, I don’t see bruises on inner thighs from beatings. I could easily change my mind if he has defensive wounds on his hands, but his head wound looks like pressure, not a blow, as SeekingJana already noted. And I think this area is safe and robbers would be unlikely to kidnap a fit firefighter and stuff him in a window.

    Of course, the poor family wishes to blame someone for such a tragic and bizarre death, but I don’t think anyone will ever have every question answered due to a likely incomplete investigation and autopsy. Jmo
     
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  9. abstr

    abstr Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about this case in particular, just saying that had he been embalmed and transported to the US, he could still have an autopsy. Could it effect findings, I would imagine so but I am not a pathologist.
     
  10. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana Well-Known Member

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    Respectfully snipped by me for space.

    I also questioned the largest thigh bruise, the rounder one. IMO, the injuries, by and large, which are the deepest are larger and closer to the inguinal creases. I believe he was unconscious and possibly not " in the wrong place" at all.
    I stated that I have only seen beatings of a male close or in the genital region when the crime has a sexual motivation. The intent is to personally wound, just as it is with male on female rape. Intense anger.

    Can you expound on this? Does the idea that some of his thigh bruises which are photographed could be a manifestation of personally motivated genital or peri-genital harm correspond to your history with trauma patients as well?

    I am NOT blaming Mr. Snow. I believe the only thing he did wrong other than planning a trip with certain others was get too drunk to possibly fight off an unexpected attacker and attack.
     
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  11. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana Well-Known Member

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    I'm putting myself on the line here. I've not said a great deal about the first set of photos, the ones published in the Daily Mail, which we likely all have viewed, which showed body parts of a male with bruising and cuts.

    I have said I thought one photo was digitally manipulated, thus incorrect, because a human eye is clearly visible above an eyebrow. I asked my spouse at that time if he thought all the photos were fakes, because of a few factors I didn't say much about here on WS.

    I feel that I must speak up in view of the second set of photos out of Mexico which I am almost 100% certain are fakes.

    I now believe the Daily Mail was given a set of photos of a posed living man or a composite group of photos of living men with bruises. The correct photo or photos will have ES's tattoos super-imposed on top of the other images.

    What I believe I was looking at was an alive man or men, because there was NO rigor mortis and NO livor mortis. Livor mortis remains on a body from the time of death until active decomposition sets in.
    I did have a chart in hours and days and am going to look for it in a second.

    Things that aren't right in the " autopsy photo" group:
    The skin color is normal. There are old cuts all over the legs. More like what a manual laborer would sustain and forget about. Not that common at all on a 35 year old well groomed US male who didn't appear to have ANY blemishes on his legs in the photos by the beach, he and his wife together, and he alone.

    The fingers appear to be well oxygenated. I saw it and I ignored it. Blood does NOT return to a corpse, and there's a reason makeup is put all over exposed surfaces for a coffin viewing- the body is purplish white. A MIXTURE of both purple and white. Very purple in dependent areas, very white nearer the area which was placed closest to the air, for a lack of a better way to state it. Blood goes to the lower back, buttocks, backs of legs, arms etc, and it stays dependently positioned.
    Embalming may cause an overall WHITE as in " Liquid paper" white, but it cannot put live skin color back. This person or people is or are not wearing makeup either, unless there is stage makeup creating some of the bruises.

    Look closely at the photo showing the head. Do you see all the white scaly skin looking debris? Across from that is a dead person's eye. When people die, the eyes become sunken from dehydration and loss of support muscle tone, and they will turn a grayish color in a Caucasian person, but it is a LONG process, not a fast acting one. This is WHY, when we read about unidentified remains being found, sometimes there will be a notation that the eye color can't be determined, or is "gray", when gray is not an eye color possible through DNA. It means the pigment has dissipated.

    I believe I was conned. That person appears to have a beating heart perfusing blood and oxygen to their body. NO discoloration, NO stiffness, NO sign of death being present.
    I am so very sorry. I could be influenced by the second set of photos unduly, but at this time, I'm calling " bogus" on the pink person with what appear to be fresh bruises, and the one with the head and arms hanging out a window. Mr. Snow's behind was not that size, and there's no dot over it. Also, I don't believe he was wearing blue jeans in Cancun.

    One last thing: In the photos of the various angles of a body, there is evidence of sunburn in one photo. He hadn't been in Mexico long enough to get sunburned, as he had been living and working in a very similar climate in Texas.

    If I am wrong, I apologize. I promise that I am voicing true doubts because I have no ulterior motives in this except getting to the truth, and I overlooked basic principles, thinking the officials might have adjusted the color saturation for the family's comfort level. I do NOT believe they did that, then took the second set of photos in the bathroom, especially. I can't see through blurry dots, so have no idea who's in the photos but several things are way "off" in the positioning to be a deceased victim, just several things as I stated earlier.
    To our moderators, if we were conned, I don't think it's the only one in this saga. If a person tells you who they are by their lies, believe them.

    God bless Mr. Snow, and may he rest in peace always in Heaven.
     
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  12. Catmommy

    Catmommy I see more than I say

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    According to one article EXCLUSIVE: 'This wasn't an accident.' Grieving family of Texas fireman found wedged in tiny window at Cancun resort share post mortem photos of his heavily bruised body as they call on FBI to investigate the mysterious death

    He'd had a massive (my word) amount of alcohol all day including multiple margaritas, a bottle of sake at dinner and a dirty martini. This article also says he and his wife had an "argument" prior to her going back to their room, leaving him at the bar.

    Bruising indicates he was alive during those injuries but could be explained as someone caught in the window and struggling wildly to get unstuck, especially someone overestimating his athletic abilities at that point.

    Any and every argument against death by misadventure can never be proved since his remains were cremated. The end.
     
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  13. CocoChanel

    CocoChanel Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Post above has been reinstated as link has been approved, but screenshots of the victim are not allowed. THANK YOU for respecting that.
     
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  14. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana Well-Known Member

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    There are 2 other abnormalities in the first set of photos- the postmortem photos posted on the Daily Mail as " Autopsy Photos" provided by family from coroner in Mexico.

    1) First photo- This is the posterior head, neck and shoulders showing a fireman's tattoo, and reddened areas.

    Look at the background. It is of a tiled WALL. The man is standing in the corner, because both walls are different. There is a sheet loosely in front of his anterior chest if you look closely. This is to simulate an autopsy table ( badly). One takes photos of a corpse in prone and supine positions, meaning they are placed on their back, then are lying on their abdomen.
    NOT standing up. A deceased person cannot stand, of course. Propping a body up is extremely disrespectful and could also easily fall and injure the corpse, in which case they really would have their hands full from the family attorneys.

    The person in the photo has to be standing up against a tiled section of a wall. The autopsy table is metal, possibly covered in plastic, with numerous buckets and weights for measuring the weight of internal organs.
    There is NO WAY to keep the blood and body fluids inside a decaying body out of TILE GROUT.
    This photo must be a fake.
    A live man was photographed. The tattoo may be superimposed on the photo in the correct location. Note it is not scraped or damaged. This is my opinion but it is also common sense.

    Second error is glaring and I don't know why I didn't see this. His hand is NOT flexed naturally.
    It is my firm belief that a live person is holding a folded sheet or small pillow, likely with the photo taken prematurely.


    A deceased person cannot HOLD anything. His hands would have been placed in a neutral position for photography. What is the point of this photo? All I can say is that this is the hand of a person with circulation to the fingers and fingernails. There is no cyanosis or hypoxic change found postmortem. ( Blue color and paleness of the hand).
    The grasping of the object on the table is a mistake. Likely the male photography model was also the assistant present.

    Look closely, everyone. I have stated why the window photos are not true to what one would see with the arms hanging out the window and a man with a large behind and wearing long dark pants shown from behind.

    This is FUBARed, IMO. I do not trust the integrity of the photos, and none of us TRULY know the source or sources or the reason for their publication in tabloid style popular sites.

    A man who helped others has died, and he deserves respectful honesty, not possibly manufactured sensationalistic photographs purported to be of his dead body. I'm not sure he was ever close to a window now. I'm also not sure he was out of his hotel room late at night either. This is JMO, and this is as honest as I can be, and be true to myself and to you about what I wrote yesterday about the injuries. It could all be digital manipulation using a live male of the approximate size of Mr. Snow. Makeup used in hairy areas to simulate bruising.
    I am choosing to err on the side of the deceased victim and of caution.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
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  15. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana Well-Known Member

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    In the window photos, look at the blurry spot that's an exterior photo with the victim blurred out.
    See the normal- looking hands which are crisp and clear? The hands are positioned normally. The color is slightly tan. There is no abnormal coloration due to circulatory changes associated with mechanical asphyxiation or of blood from the circulation being impeded underneath his arms , which are heavily resting in the window in another photo, the one that shows the posterior side inside the bathroom.

    Next, look at the length of his LEGS inside the bathroom. Long dark pants are shown, not shorts.
    That is a tall man's torso and legs. He was 5' 7'' tall, according to his Texas DL.
    That is not the length of a man's lower body who was only 5' 7'' tall. No disrespect meant about his height. It was what it was, and he was a handsome man. Height was probably a help in firefighting.
    I had thought his wife was about his size, if not a bit larger, in photos taken with their daughters, however, I had thought she was very tall. I was wrong, he was a bit smaller than average in height and foot size. ( He's barefoot in one photo of them together).

    Next, look at the documentation provided.
    His Permission to Carry card has the exact same photo as his Texas DL photo, only it's changed from color to B and W. The signature is also from the DL.
    This is not what the Carry cards have. They have their own photo and signature. I just looked at my husband's, also a Texan.

    The " tells" are there if you look for them. This is faked evidence, IMO. I do not pretend to know why it is presented as it is, especially the hands in the center of a blurred out DEATH PHOTO.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
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  16. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana Well-Known Member

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    WARNING- ONE GRAPHIC PHOTO OF UNKNOWN PERSON'S BODY- The head is covered for privacy.

    This is an excellent source to show what death does to blood in the body. The cessation of circulation produces unmistakable changes.

    PLEASE DO NOT CLICK UNLESS YOU ARE PREPARED TO SEE A BODY WHICH IS TRULY DECEASED- ABOUT 12-20 HOURS POSTMORTEM.

    Source WIKIPEDIA
    Livor mortis - Wikipedia
     
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  17. anonypotomous

    anonypotomous Well-Known Member

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    @SeekingJana - Hmmm. Very interesting.

    Current TX DL - and TC License to carry card. What they look like.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. ringbearer

    ringbearer Former Member

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    Imo, those are not his hands unblurred at the center of the photo. It is part of the building. His hands and arms are blurred and dangling in front of his head on the left and right.

    Also imo, you can't see his full legs and they are not touching the floor. Otherwise he probably wouldn't have died that way.
     
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  19. Dutcher

    Dutcher Amateur Sleuth - Should stick to my day job.

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    SeekingJana, it seems you changed your mind about a lot, if not all, your earlier observations.
    Yesterday you said:

    -- The hand shown is in the approximate last position it was in when he was alive, and we can clearly see that the fingers are all in a flexed, half- grasping position. Once rigor mortis dissipates, the hand would relax into more of a neutral position

    And today you think that very picture of the hand is a dead-giveaway the pics are fake?
    I'm just curious what made you change your mind :)
     
  20. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana Well-Known Member

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    Yesterday, I looked at the body.
    Today, I looked at both a man and the PROPS used in the photographs. I saw things which are staged. I also know how the bruises were created on the model.
    When the photos are enlarged, it's possible to see either a small cut or a needle mark by every single bruise. Meaning, blood vessels were punctured superficially and allowed to bleed to create fresh dark hematomas. ( A significantly sized bruise is a hematoma).

    The live man is stood up in a corner of the likely autopsy room in the very first photo because stainless steel autopsy tables are used. They have side rails to keep the body from sliding off and everything. Care is taken of a body, it is someone's loved one.

    About the hand itself: One can see a man holding onto a folded item, likely a prop sheet that goes over a body. It was used in the first photograph of the back of the head, and the shoulder area. They were working with a time frame and maybe just a few people to " get this done for the Americans".
    I didn't think in terms of a LIVE PERSON, so I missed that there was something in the man's hand. But, there is. It's clear. Also, that's not a dead person's hand in coloration and I provided a Wikipedia link to the postmortem phenomenon of livor mortis. The hand should have been mottled, as it was hanging out the window for some time if the narrative is correct.

    The impetus for a second close look was actually the set of photographs from Mexico with what is purported to be Elijah Snow's body in a window. It's not him, the body is way too long for a 5'7'' man, and the positioning of the upper back and upper arms show there was NO chest constriction which would have led to a lethal situation. He was photographed as being stuck in the shoulder area only. Not the chest or upper abdomen where our respiratory muscles are located. IMO.

    This is not true to life, and medical personnel would know something else happened, or these are faked photos, or both. IMO.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
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