MI - 13-year old girl stabs 7-year old sister to death - September 28, 2024

[CuriousDetective]

Kids and young teens usually don't really really understand death and life. IMO, killing a sibling or a parent might seem like a reasonable solution at that age, while they don't yet understand, that even though they feel like that in that moment, they might think differently about that in a few years.

I respectfully disagree with this. Children start showing early signs of empathy as young as preschool age, and it starts to really solidify with the development of concrete reasoning skills from age 8 onwards. Most children have lost a pet or at least someone they know by age 13. My 3 year old has lost a dog, grand-parent, great-grandparent and knows about the deaths of close friends. He obviously doesn’t fully understand at his age, but has the concept. At age 11 I lost my cousin in a car accident and I absolutely understood what that meant. Also, most children are well on the way to developing emotional regulation skills by age 13. Obviously, hormones are a factor, but not enough of one to kill someone in this manner (some degree of planning re. Not simply self-defence or heat of the moment fit of rage).

 

[Sjöberg]

I respectfully disagree with this. Children start showing early signs of empathy as young as preschool age,

Oh, I don't argue with any of that tbh. What I meant was a bit wider and more philosophical. They do understand the permanence of death and such, but they just lack wider life experience and context in some regards.
For example, a friend of mine really fantasised about killing her parents (or them just dying in an accident) at about that same age (12-14). The family was ok, the parents never did anything illegal towards the kid, she had good grades etc. But the relationship with parents was causing a lot of stress (as it always does at that age) and while she did not hate them, she felt her life would be easier without them. She was also not really close to them, saying she would not really be sad or care about it if they died. Now she is middle aged, has her own kid and I'd say that she loves her mum a lot, despite them being a bit different people. But back when she was 12-14, she did not think how would she feel without her parents in her 20s and 30s etc. They were annoying and limited her life. And she is not the only one I know who has had similar thoughts. (She never did anything and is a very sweet person, but if I imagine someone with more of a temper having similar thoughts and feelings...)
So while kids do understand that dead people don't come back etc, they do kind of live more in the moment and lack a lot of context. They also usually haven't lost someone their own age and the deaths of grandparents are served as a super normal thing due to old age. I had lost several realtives as a kid, including the ones I was very close with, but the first time a friend died (I was in my late 20s), it still hit differently and changed something in my feeling towards death.
I guess the tl;dr here would be, that I think she might have been pissed at her sister and wanted to kill her for no big reason at all, because at that age she might not fully understand all the ways this will influence her and her life in the future nor exactly how unfair it is to the sister and others around her.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

But Sjöberg, the complete lack of empathy isn't developmentally normal. When she saw her sister's fear, she should/could have stopped. There is a reason most people don't harm their siblings like this, even though most kids/teens probably feel rage toward each other at some point.
I do understand what you're saying, but she knew what she was doing and that it was wrong. I think she knew exactly what it meant for her victim, though maybe not herself and her parents.

But yes, she is still a child herself, and how to handle these cases is a very difficult question.

 

[Sjöberg]

But Sjöberg, the complete lack of empathy isn't developmentally normal. When she saw her sister's fear, she should/could have stopped.

Yes, I do agree! It was just interesting to me, that these thoughts might not be so rare and extreme as we sometimes think.
However, actually going through with it, especially in a violent way like stabbing, this is a whole different story. I don't think my friend could have stabbed anyone to death.
But I also would not say that she in general lacked empathy, quite the contrary. So there seems to be some sort of a mismatch there, that even if a kid is a caring and empathic person, they still might think of crazy things like killing their parent or sibling to solve some situation, because (maybe, just IMO) there is some disconnect in fully understanding how horrible killing someone is.

But I did not mean to say that anything about this crime here is normal, neither morally nor brain-developent wise. She just might not have had a big reason for this nor an obvious mental illness. (does not mean her brain is normal, it clearly is not)

 

[katydid23]

Yes, I do agree! It was just interesting to me, that these thoughts might not be so rare and extreme as we sometimes think.
However, actually going through with it, especially in a violent way like stabbing, this is a whole different story. I don't think my friend could have stabbed anyone to death.
But I also would not say that she in general lacked empathy, quite the contrary. So there seems to be some sort of a mismatch there, that even if a kid is a caring and empathic person, they still might think of crazy things like killing their parent or sibling to solve some situation, because (maybe, just IMO) there is some disconnect in fully understanding how horrible killing someone is.

But I did not mean to say that anything about this crime here is normal, neither morally nor brain-developent wise. She just might not have had a big reason for this nor an obvious mental illness. (does not mean her brain is normal, it clearly is not)

I understand philosophically what you are saying about a young child's lack of context concerning death, etc.....but in this case, it shocked me to hear that the older sister stopped stabbing and went into the kitchen for a better weapon and then went back to finish the stabbing spree.

That ís so cold hearted. To be so intentional and 'rational' to decide to go get a better knife, and in all that time, not to stop oneself from continuing the totally irrational violent assault on her baby sister. It's a devastating decision and if a jury hears that during deliberations it will be hard to show mercy, imo.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

She just might not have had a big reason for this nor an obvious mental illness.

I think later, when old enough, she will definitely be diagnosed with something (not necessarily a MI.) JMO.

 

[CuriousDetective]

I think later, when old enough, she will definitely be diagnosed with something (not necessarily a MI.) JMO.

My guess (without know anything about her really) is conduct disorder with some kind of background of trauma, or attachment -related trauma. When she is old enough perhaps Antisocial PD or some other type of PD, narcissi’s or borderline maybe.