MI - 14 men charged in plot to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, Oct 2020 *8 guilty, 5 NG*

[shotgun09]

Me too. I wonder how they are doing so badly with the jury.

Perhaps the defense attorneys were able to distract the jury with testimony about unpopular and perhaps over zealous lock down measures?

Perhaps, MOO the jury found out that the FBI agents and Confidential Informants outnumbered the actual defendants in this case, and believed it was all a setup.

 

[Cryptic]

Perhaps, MOO the jury found out that the FBI agents and Confidential Informants outnumbered the actual defendants in this case, and believed it was all a setup.

That is possible.

But.... alot of terror type defendants (left wing, right wing, Islamicist, ethnic nationalist etc etc) make such claims of being set up by informants. Statistically, the defense rarely works- even when there are concerns about how much persuasion by the informants was needed to make the defendants participate.

Here is a description of the jurors:
Here are the jurors deciding the historic Whitmer kidnap plot case

Over all, the jury could be seen as sympathetic to the defendants:

Several people from northern rural areas where covid measures were not popular as a concept- let alone the long running ones and then factor in the badly conceived ones (ban on boating / fishing).

Several people owning weapons, including AR-15 type weapons. And.... several people expressing mild criticism over the way Covid restrictions were implemented by the governor.

From the purely logical sense, the governors Covid policies have no impact on the validity of the charges. But..... jurors are humans and not computers.

 

[Dawookie]

That is possible.

But.... alot of terror type defendants (left wing, right wing, Islamicist, ethnic nationalist etc etc) make such claims of being set up by informants. Statistically, the defense rarely works- even when there are concerns about how much persuasion by the informants was needed to make the defendants participate.

Here is a description of the jurors:
Here are the jurors deciding the historic Whitmer kidnap plot case

Over all, the jury could be seen as sympathetic to the defendants:

Several people from northern rural areas where covid measures were not popular as a concept- let alone the long running ones and then factor in the badly conceived ones (ban on boating / fishing).

Several people owning weapons, including AR-15 type weapons. And.... several people expressing mild criticism over the way Covid restrictions were implemented by the governor.

From the purely logical sense, the governors Covid policies have no impact on the validity of the charges. But..... jurors are humans and not computers.

ÍMO l, like @shotgun09 said, the fact that half the group were informants or UCs played a large role in why the case fell apart. There hasn't been a lot of info out out about how big of a role they all played, but I have to imagine the jurors got to hear how deeply they were involved.

Add in the various issues with the FBI agents involved, including one being accused of perjury and a local prosecutor having alleged issues of perjury and the huge issues with one of the informants and it all spelled trouble for the case.

Ok had read this article a few months back and had to find it again. Its long but it's the only article I've found that goes into some detail about the informants involvement and some of the main players in the case

Gov. Whitmer Kidnapping Suspects Claim Entrapment

 

[shotgun09]

ÍMO l, like @shotgun09 said, the fact that half the group were informants or UCs played a large role in why the case fell apart. There hasn't been a lot of info out out about how big of a role they all played, but I have to imagine the jurors got to hear how deeply they were involved.

Add in the various issues with the FBI agents involved, including one being accused of perjury and a local prosecutor having alleged issues of perjury and the huge issues with one of the informants and it all spelled trouble for the case.

Ok had read this article a few months back and had to find it again. Its long but it's the only article I've found that goes into some detail about the informants involvement and some of the main players in the case

Gov. Whitmer Kidnapping Suspects Claim Entrapment

From the article:
BBM

"An examination of the case by BuzzFeed News also reveals that some of those informants, acting under the direction of the FBI, played a far larger role than has previously been reported. Working in secret, they did more than just passively observe and report on the actions of the suspects. Instead, they had a hand in nearly every aspect of the alleged plot, starting with its inception. The extent of their involvement raises questions as to whether there would have even been a conspiracy without them. "

ETA: fixed quote error

 

[Dawookie]

From the article:
BBM

"An examination of the case by BuzzFeed News also reveals that some of those informants, acting under the direction of the FBI, played a far larger role than has previously been reported. Working in secret, they did more than just passively observe and report on the actions of the suspects. Instead, they had a hand in nearly every aspect of the alleged plot, starting with its inception. The extent of their involvement raises questions as to whether there would have even been a conspiracy without them. "

ETA: fixed quote error

This is why I'm not surprised by the case going the way it did. I would really love to see transcripts and how deeply involved they really were

 

[ashhouston]

this case pisses me off so bad its so wrong and all the FBI people who were involved should be fired asap it makes the people not trust our government and that alone is scary and should be a huge eye opener for everyone . i used to respect the FBI but its hard to now with this crap going on who knows how many more cases that we dont even know about.

 

[Dawookie]

this case pisses me off so bad its so wrong and all the FBI people who were involved should be fired asap it makes the people not trust our government and that alone is scary and should be a huge eye opener for everyone . i used to respect the FBI but its hard to now with this crap going on who knows how many more cases that we dont even know about.

There's probably more cases than we will ever know about. They have a long history of crossing the line unfortunately

 

[Niner]

@JerseyGirl - any updates on the Antrim County guys? That would be Eric Molitor, William & Michael Hull, Shawn Fix & Brian Higgins.

Their last hearing was 4/14/21 & Higgins was 12/1/21.

TIA!

 

[JerseyGirl]

The Hull brothers:

Brothers suspected in Gov. Whitmer kidnap plot to stay monitored by GPS tethers, judge says

Twin brothers allegedly linked to a plot to kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer will continue to be monitored by GPS tethers while on bond, a judge said Wednesday, April 14.

The judge, however, lifted a house-arrest provision for Michael of Plainwell and William of Shelbyville so that they could work late and meet with attorneys – or have dinner with families at restaurants.

The judge, who earlier ruled that the brothers could be released by posting 10 percent of $250,000 bonds, said they would continue to be monitored by tether.

The issue could be reviewed at future court hearings, including preliminary examinations to determine if the brothers should stand trial on charges of providing material support for terrorist acts, a 20-year felony, and felony firearms, which is punishable by two years in prison consecutive to any other term.

The preliminary examinations have been delayed because of the coronavirus pandemic.

@Niner

 

[JerseyGirl]

@JerseyGirl - any updates on the Antrim County guys? That would be Eric Molitor, William & Michael Hull, Shawn Fix & Brian Higgins.

Their last hearing was 4/14/21 & Higgins was 12/1/21.

TIA!

found it! @Niner

state co-defendants - Shawn Fix, Eric Molitor, Brian Higgins, Michael Null and William Null - are awaiting a preliminary exam in Antrim County. That hearing is set for Aug. 29 in the 86th District Court.

Attorney of Jackson-area man charged in Whitmer plot optimistic after fed case fails

 

[Niner]

I followed the link you provided @JerseyGirl - and came up with a more recent article dated 4/8/22.

Michigan Gov. Whitmer’s office warns lack of accountability in kidnapping plot will embolden extremists


Shawn Fix, Eric Molitor, Brian Higgins, Michael Null and William Null - are awaiting a preliminary exam in Antrim County. That hearing is set for Aug. 29 in the 86th District Court.

and for the Jackson 3: Their trial was scheduled for 9/12/22 has now been continued to 10/10/22 (per article). They have a hearing on 8/9/22.

and just saw your next post - but I'll leave this anyway!

 

[JerseyGirl]

Judge orders new trial for two accused in Whitmer kidnapping plot

The two suspects sought to be acquitted in the case.

www.axios.com

A federal judge Thursday ordered two men accused of plotting to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer to face a retrial about three months after jurors failed to reach a verdict.

The two suspects, Adam Fox and Barry Croft, sought acquittal from the court after their earlier trial in the kidnapping plot ended in a mistrial.

Judge orders new trial for men accused in plot to kidnap and kill Gov. Whitmer

Two of the men charged in the plot to kidnap and kill governor whitmer are headed back to trial.

wwmt.com

Two of the men charged in the plot to kidnap and kill Governor Gretchen Whitmer will head back to trial Aug. 9.

 

[shotgun09]

2 men face new trial over scheme to kidnap Michigan governor

Two men accused of crafting a plan to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer in 2020 and ignite a national rebellion are facing a second trial this week.

apnews.com

​

2 men face new trial over scheme to kidnap Michigan governor​

"The trial of Adam Fox and Barry Croft Jr. means another public airing of secretly recorded conversations, text messages and chilling social media posts. It also comes at a time of intense news coverage of the U.S. House committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, riot by Trump supporters at the Capitol.

Jurors will see how undercover FBI agents and informants had infiltrated the Michigan group. In response, defense attorneys again will argue that Fox and Croft were shielded by the First Amendment when they expressed malicious opinions about government and were entrapped every step of the way."

 

[ilovewings]

2 men face new trial over scheme to kidnap Michigan governor

Two men accused of crafting a plan to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer in 2020 and ignite a national rebellion are facing a second trial this week.

apnews.com

​

2 men face new trial over scheme to kidnap Michigan governor​

"The trial of Adam Fox and Barry Croft Jr. means another public airing of secretly recorded conversations, text messages and chilling social media posts. It also comes at a time of intense news coverage of the U.S. House committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, riot by Trump supporters at the Capitol.

Jurors will see how undercover FBI agents and informants had infiltrated the Michigan group. In response, defense attorneys again will argue that Fox and Croft were shielded by the First Amendment when they expressed malicious opinions about government and were entrapped every step of the way."

I hope the second trial gets a better verdict than the first one!!!

 

[Niner]

Here is what is coming up. At least in my notes.

On Tuesday, Aug. 9th - State case: Pretrial hearing for the Jackson County guys - Bellar, Morrison & Musico. Their trial starts on 10/10/22.

On Tuesday, Aug. 9th - Federal case: Trial set to begin for Fox & Croft.

On Monday, Aug. 29th - State case: Preliminary hearing for the Antrim County guys - Molitor, 2 Nulls, Fix & Higgins.

 

[Eddie99]

I hope the second trial gets a better verdict than the first one!!!

What is a "better Verdict"?

 

[Cryptic]

In response, defense attorneys again will argue that Fox and Croft were shielded by the First Amendment when they expressed malicious opinions about government and were entrapped every step of the way."

Entrapment is a very common defense regarding terror type charges, but that it is also extremely difficult to prove.

To my understanding, the only techniques that US under cover agents cannot use are: A. Romance B. Promises of "inordinate sums" of money.

For better, or for worse, under cover agents can:

A. Repeatedly approach dim witted people about committing terror acts.
B. Show defendants "get juiced up" material (inflammatory videos, speeches etc. regarding their cause)
C. Promise them large sums of money.
D. Artificially remove obstacles to a person committing terror acts ( "Saying your car is broke down and can't make the planning meeting? No problem, I"ll pick you up and take you there- on my way now.....")
E. Provide the actual weapons, bombs etc.
F. Provide weed and alcohol to defendants- even in conjunction with showing them "get juiced up" stuff.

 

[worm]

Most everybody has been fine with the tricks the feds have pulled with drug offenders, the mob, etc, but once a political bend is introduced things change. These lawyers know how important that is with jury selection too.

 

[shotgun09]

The lengths that the government (FBI ) took, to gather these *advertiser censored* together, and keep them together was evident in the first trial, IMO. Massive entrapment, and somehow not illegal. But, a jury felt otherwise and let two go.

Jury selection ought to be interesting on this ( round two) case.

 

[Cryptic]

The lengths that the government (FBI ) took, to gather these *advertiser censored* together, and keep them together was evident in the first trial, IMO. Massive entrapment, and somehow not illegal.

I agree with your observation. Your concerns about entrapment have been raised by alot of civil liberty type organizations- usually involving plotters of the Islamic variety.

But.... in the end, alot of entrapment arguments keep getting shot down. For example, this case here:https://www.projectsalam.org/documents/Apeal_Briefs_Newburgh_4/Appeal brief - Cromitie.pdf

- Professional undercover contractor (need to find bad guys to stay employed. So... incentive to "create" bad guys?) approaches dim wit loitering around a mosque.

- After being shown "juice up" material, dim wit makes a series of anti semitic and anti USA comments. Ironically, some comments are contradictory (not the brightest plotter ever).

- Undercover contractor then repeatedly approaches him about carrying out attacks. Suspect is sort of interested, but not really. Contractor promises alot of cash, a barber shop, and.... a kewl car if terror attacks are carried out.

- Dimwit eventually recruits three other plotters. But their attention spans and interest soon wane. Under cover contractor is ordered to keep the plot moving. Dimwits eventually retrieve and plant dummy explosives at synagogues and military base.

Trial judge and appellate judge then shoot down entrapment claims. There are some successes, however.

This dim witted eco plotter (blow up dam 'n torch the research lab) eventually got his conviction over turned years later after the sexy under cover contractor (fishnets and ohh so anarchist black everything) was found to have been trained in seduction psychology and was provided with feedback on keeping the lapsing plotter interested in her until the "mission".

Contractor also used the smoke some weed- then watch juice up videos, and "Yes, my car works and I"ll provide the rides to the secret training hide out." type techniques.

Exclusive: “Eco-Terrorist” Freed 10 Years Early After Feds Withhold Evidence on Informant’s Role

In a Democracy Now! exclusive, we speak to environmental activist Eric McDavid, who has just been released from prison 10 years early after federal prosecutors acknowledged withholding key evidence about how he may have been entrapped by an FBI informant with whom he had fallen in love. In 2008...

www.democracynow.org