MI - Three siblings in juvenile detention for contempt, Pontiac, 9 July 2015

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by Hoosgirl, Jul 10, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Hoosgirl

    Hoosgirl Active Member

    Messages:
    2,084
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    A judge in Michigan ordered three children (15, 10 and 9) to juvenile detention for failing to have a relationship with their dad.

    Dad has supervised visits and Mom physical custody after a contentious divorce. Kids and mom claim Dad hit her in front of them, but police didn't file charges.

    I don't know which parent is in the right here, but nonetheless, I find the Judge's actions outrageous. She compares the kids to Manson, among other horrible statements.

    Article includes link to transcript of the hearing:

    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...-thrown-juvie-hall-refusing-see-dad/29898491/
     
  2. Loading...


  3. jjenny

    jjenny Active Member

    Messages:
    25,798
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I agree. I couldn't believe how judge was berating the children. And then to send them off to juvenile detention because they wouldn't have lunch with their father? Two of them are only 9 and 10 years old. And by the way father went on the business trip to Israel while his children are locked up. So he isn't visiting them in jail, and mother isn't allowed to.
    What recourse does one have against a judge like this?
     
  4. Hoosgirl

    Hoosgirl Active Member

    Messages:
    2,084
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
  5. jjenny

    jjenny Active Member

    Messages:
    25,798
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Judge lectured children on "normal" behavior. I don't find her own behavior normal. It's bizarre how she addressed the children (who are well behaved and have good manners, according to the neighbors). These children are not juvenile delinquents. The 10 year old child agreed to have lunch with the father, but judge kept berating the children and 10 year old changed his mind. Judge said that father has the power to get children released, if father tells judge his child is no longer like "Charlie Manson's cult." Yet the father went away on business (to Israel), and the children are locked up in a juvenile detention facility.
     
  6. Hoosgirl

    Hoosgirl Active Member

    Messages:
    2,084
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I would LOVE to hear Gitana1's opinion on this!
     
  7. LadyL

    LadyL Active Member

    Messages:
    10,415
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I left a message for her.
     
  8. LadyL

    LadyL Active Member

    Messages:
    10,415
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    38
    this is interesting:

    In the Oakland Circuit Court case, each of the children is represented by separate attorneys, "none of whom objected to the children's placement" at Children's Village, according to Middleditch's statement.
     
  9. jjenny

    jjenny Active Member

    Messages:
    25,798
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
  10. dandy

    dandy New Member

    Messages:
    668
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    perhaps it's my ********* - but i can't find the link to the transcript.

    any chance you could post a direct link?

    the story that was linked provided some additional background - quote:

    Lansat wrote that parenting time scheduled for Aug. 21 and 22, 2014, in the court's jury room was disrupted by the children's behavior.

    "When the children first came to the courthouse on that Thursday it took at least six deputies, a prosecutor ... various court personnel and finally the judge to get those kids into the jury room," Lansat wrote. "The court admonished Mother as to what the Court saw in the children's behavior on the record — at least twice. The three minor children sat outside the courtroom on the chairs. the children would not respond to me — but more important — either to the deputies or the prosecutor. For minor children to basically evade armed Sheriff's (deputies) is absolutely appalling.

    "I advised Mother that unless she gets these kids off the bench, there will be grave consequences — such as placement in the Children's Village."

    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne.../09/children-detained-rejecting-dad/29935383/
     
  11. jjenny

    jjenny Active Member

    Messages:
    25,798
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    So the children has been threatened with this Children's village (which judge refers to as jail) for quite some time now?

    Normally the children are well behaved.

    “These kids are extraordinarily academically gifted. Good young citizens, polite, the best young people you can imagine and have never been in any trouble and now they are incarcerated until they turn 18 years old. And they don’t know that anyone on the outside is doing anything to help them. The oldest, Liam, is so mathematically gifted he was invited to attend an elite mathematics program at Stanford this summer. He is such a fine big brother that he asked for deferred admission until his younger siblings could come with him.”

    Read more at http://observer.com/2015/07/lawyer-...inst-ludicrous-jailing-of-kids/#ixzz3fV0ZwU2u
    Follow us: @newyorkobserver on Twitter | newyorkobserver on Facebook
     
  12. hb2008

    hb2008 New Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    OMG the quotes in this article are nearly unbelievable, hard to imagine a grown judge using this kind of (imo abusive) language with anyone, let alone kids.

    ...

    ...


     
  13. MyBelle

    MyBelle New Member

    Messages:
    9,814
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks!! That sure helps shine a light on it. Tapping their feet in some kind of Morse code shows the degree of manipulative behavior that has been going on for years. I guess these kids thought they could draw the line in the sand and the Judge wouldn't dare cross it.

    JMO
     
  14. jjenny

    jjenny Active Member

    Messages:
    25,798
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    My mind is also boggled. I can't believe judge is using that kind of language toward 9, 10 and a 14 year old. It sounded extremely abusive to me for an adult (and a judge) to address minor children who have not committed any crimes, that way.
    If that's how she behaved in previous hearings also, no wonder children might not behave well while in court.
     
  15. jjenny

    jjenny Active Member

    Messages:
    25,798
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    The children are not on trial here. They haven't committed any crimes. Judge can not force a child to have a healthy relationship with child's father. It's just ridiculous.
    What if court demanded that you had a "healthy relationship" with someone you didn't like, and threw you in jail if you refused?
     
  16. MyBelle

    MyBelle New Member

    Messages:
    9,814
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    BBM. Yes, they were. The Judge gave them each a choice and they were defiant so she held them on contempt. Of course she can't force them to have a healthy relationship but she sure can control who has custody.

    Judge Lisa Gorcyca ordered the children — ages 9, 10 and 14 — to Children's Village on June 24 for civil contempt of court after they refused to have lunch with or talk to their father.

    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...-thrown-juvie-hall-refusing-see-dad/29898491/
     
  17. jjenny

    jjenny Active Member

    Messages:
    25,798
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    She thinks she can order them to have a healthy relationship with their father. I got news for her, it doesn't work that way.
    I wonder if the children are afraid that father will take them to Israel. He tried to get custody and tried to have children go to live with him in Israel, he was denied.
     
  18. PrairieWind

    PrairieWind Verified Attorney

    Messages:
    1,959
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    We of course don't know all the details here, but FOR THE MOMENT I am going to back the judge on this. The court can (and very often does) order visitation even if the children don't want to go. That is common. The reports here show how this has been a very contentious divorce and has gone on and on. I have been involved in some of these types of cases and i can tell you that a party (especially in divorce) or parties can get soooooo unreasonable that you can't believe it. This judge's actions (while they may seem extreme) just go to show the frustration the court is experiencing.
     
  19. MyBelle

    MyBelle New Member

    Messages:
    9,814
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    BBM. What the Judge has done is intervene in what she believes is a very unhealthy relationship between the mother and the children. The kids had a choice between having lunch with dad and being removed from their mother's home and all three chose removal.

    I do believe the GALs and the Judge have quite a bit more insight into the history of this case than we do.

    JMO
     
  20. PrairieWind

    PrairieWind Verified Attorney

    Messages:
    1,959
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Oh I assure you, the court can order that relationship to exist. The court believes, probably correctly, that the reason the children are hostile to the father is that the mother is manipulating them and denying access to them. If the children spend time with the father away from the mother, they will begin to see that Dad isn't the monster Mom is making him out to be. I would say that right now the only thing stopping the court from awarding primary physical custody to father is that his job requires him to be out of the country so much.
     
  21. BetteDavisEyes

    BetteDavisEyes "Fasten your seatbelts. It's going to be a bumpy

    Messages:
    23,236
    Likes Received:
    39
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I live in Oakland County, so this is a local case. It's been going on for a while but is too convoluted to follow.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice