Michael Jackson ~ new accuser files

Discussion in 'Celebrity and Entertainment News' started by Linda7NJ, May 13, 2014.

  1. AllyBeeUK

    AllyBeeUK Well-Known Member

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    Obviously you are a huge fan but he wasn't the greatest human being ever. He was just a pop star. In my eyes, Freddie Mercury is one the greatest humans ever, (I appreciate he's not; just to his fans) it amazes me when people don't see his genius. I get so indignant about it because I adore him so much, he's precious to me. I get it, I really do but if this was about him, I would have to concede, I would still believe the victims.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
  2. AllyBeeUK

    AllyBeeUK Well-Known Member

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    Yes I agree. There are just no words for that interview, it's horrifying. I've seen some fans claiming that he cured Gavin's cancer. It is impossible to reason with this level of celebrity worship. He was just a human being, not an other worldly being.
     
  3. iailwa

    iailwa Former Member

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    Fair enough to have your beliefs and it's my right to have my beliefs too. I believe the opposite to be true - although I don't deny he was talented. He was a musically gifted paedophile. He was a gifted groomer too. He's groomed even you... & many more. I hope all his victims will find the strength to heal. It's just a pity he has ruined so many lives :(
     
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  4. iailwa

    iailwa Former Member

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    Freddie's my favourite too! of all time! I agree, if this was a about Freddie - i'd have to concede. It's never right, no matter who you are...
     
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  5. iailwa

    iailwa Former Member

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    Two crooks? He's been accused at least 5 times we know of... Mj has written a 20 million dollar check (why do that when you are here to defend yourself?), and apparently more checks that his mother showed to Toyah (as she said in the video I posted above). I'm not surprised Shafechuck can't remember exact dates - children tend to disassociate when abused - as a defence mechanism. He could have seen the train station later. Nobody's memory is perfect... well, there are a few people who have perfect memories in this world, but only a few!
     
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  6. Catmammy

    Catmammy Well-Known Member

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    Just an observation, Johnny Cochran, who got O.J. Simpson off when he just about decapitated his ex wife and killed her male friend, told Michael to write the check to one accuser and the case was dismissed. I know what Cochran said at the time and I know his reputation. Had he thought that Michael was truly innocent he'd of much more likely taken the bulk of that money himself defending Michael. My opinion only.
     
  7. floridagrrl

    floridagrrl Be kind.

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    Oprah did not backtrack and delete her posts in social media because of the documentary being shown as a lie. Now that’s tabloid fodder (hypocrisy) The amount of hate and vitriol she received on those posts was absolutely disgusting and astounding. I would remove them too. Logical thinking, in my opinion, is not strong with MJs defenders

    It is not normal for any grown man to have little boys live with him, keep his parents off property, sleep with him in the same bed...
    PERIOD. End of! How is this so hard for people to see? I do not get it?!?
    How is keeping a small boy away from his parents even right? Justify that for us at least? For what reason would that be? These are facts.
     
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  8. AllyBeeUK

    AllyBeeUK Well-Known Member

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    Nothing about this documentary has been debunked. JS has never said that all of the abuse ended forever in 1992, he referred to a sustained period of intense abuse ending around that time. He maintains that their relationship was "special" through 93 and beyond. Even if he has got the dates wrong, it wouldn't surprise me considering he is remembering events of 30 plus years ago and is a victim of childhood trauma.

    The memory is a funny thing. When I was 4 years old, I was playing in the street with my friend. An elderly man called us over to his house, took us into his kitchen, poured us a drink and exposed himself. I'm 36 now, and until about 8 years ago I didn't remember any of this. I knew something had happened, I felt creepy about something and the taste of orange cordial makes me sick but that was it. My mum said something to me which triggered my memory and it hit me like a train. I still don't remember the date, the month, the weather or what I was wearing. I know nothing other than the fact that it happened. This was obviously traumatic enough an event for me to suppress it and I wasn't even physically harmed.

    It must have taken so much courage for James and Wade to come forward and speak. I've been so worried for James these last few months, the last few days in particular. I'm scared I'm going to turn on the tv and find out he has hurt himself or become unwell. People do not realise the damage they could be potentially doing. If you don't believe them fine, but the name calling and the abuse is horrendous. They don't deserve that, all victims should know that they are able to come forward to speak and heal in safety.

    The Jackson family know the truth. They know there are more men that could come forward now which is why they are working overtime to discredit the victims in order to protect their paycheck.

    I don't doubt that latoya was in an abusive marriage but I have listened to those interviews, she is not speaking from a script. She is speaking from the heart and with a genuine concern for the children. She even mentions James by name in one interview, another huge coincidence that we are supposed to just sweep under the rug. The brandy friendship/relationship story is irrelevant, so is britney spears. Oprah has deleted nothing from her website, even if she had I wouldn't blame her considering the abuse directed at her. James did not mention Euro Disney in the doc. Most importantly, Jordan Chandler has never recanted his testimony. That is a lie.

    These lies that people think they have exposed are nothing of the sort. If the victims had been speaking from a script, there would be no inaccuracies. Everything would be perfectly researched in detail with no room for error or holes in their memory.

    Although MJ was a talented performer, he was a sick man. We need to use this documentary and these men's experiences to help us learn more about grooming and abuse, and how to better protect our kids. Oprah was right, this story transcends MJ.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
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  9. AllyBeeUK

    AllyBeeUK Well-Known Member

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    Freddie is such a huge part of my life, his voice and his music are the soundtrack to almost every memory I have of my life. My son is 2 and already knows all of the words to Bohemian Rhapsody. If these stories came out about Fred, I would be absolutely devastated but I would accept it. I swear there is not even a member of my own family I would protect to this extent. If it was one of my family members behaving like that I would report them to the police myself, no matter how much I loved them.

    If the Jackson's were so concerned about him and his legacy, they should have worked harder to protect him from himself while he was alive.
     
  10. AllyBeeUK

    AllyBeeUK Well-Known Member

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  11. Catmammy

    Catmammy Well-Known Member

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    When the truth differs from some people's desires, they are quick to call the victims "liars".
     
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  12. KarenUK

    KarenUK Well-Known Member

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    Evidence from Michael Jackson's bodyguards backs up alleged victim's 'Leaving Neverland' train station sexual assault claimsr.

    Safechuck, who appeared in the recent documentary Leaving Neverland, alleged in a 2014 lawsuit that Jackson had abused him from 1988 until 1992. According to the now-41-year-old, part of that abuse took place in an upstairs room at the train station located at the ranch.

    Those claims were recently criticised by biographer Mike Smallcombe, who said he had uncovered permits that show the station was only approved for construction in 1993. He added that the station didn’t open until the first part of 1994.

    Now, accounts from two of Jackson’s former bodyguards have been uncovered, which seem to back up the dates in Safechuck’s story. Writing in the 2014 book Remembering The Time: Protecting Michael Jackson In His Final Days, Bill Whitfield and Javon Beard said: “In 1990, Michael Jackson opened the gates of his Neverland Valley Ranch to the public for the first time.

    “Neverland’s visitors entered the ranch at its train station, boarding a steam engine that took them up to the main house.”

    Randall Sullivan also corroborated that account in his 2012 biography Untouchable: The Strange Life And Tragic Death Of Michael Jackson. “Reporters invited to tour Neverland at the 1990 public unveiling most often began by inspecting the towering statue of Mercury (the Roman God of profit, trade and commerce) in the drive of the mansion,” he wrote.

    “Then climbed a hill out back that led to a near replica of the Main Street train station at Disneyland, with a floral clock that was more magnificent than the one Walt Disney had designed for his own park.”
     
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  13. PrimeSuspect

    PrimeSuspect Under the Milky Way

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    Yes, that's how it goes!

    MJ being hailed as a saint, a great human being, just defies logic. Fanatic couldn't be a more applicable word for those condoning MJ's romancing of little boys. If we can't approve anyone else sleeping in bed with and holding and caressing unrelated children, why not? Why is MJ's behaviour acceptable? Since when is money and fame an open door to abuse?
    MJ was a very clever man, he didn't build an empire with the mind of a child, having extensive plastic surgery and speaking in falsetto in public doesn't impede someone's sex drive. MJ calling children pure and having faces of God, is typical paedophile speak.

    And for those who ask why didn't these young men confront MJ while he was living? Robson and Safechuck explain this in the documentary. One has to understand the process of grooming and the mentality of the paedophile and their chosen victims. In most child abuse and sexual assault court cases, the accused sits behind a screen so as not to intimidate the victim or witnesses, some victims give evidence via close circuit t.v or, for very young children, it's a pre-recorded video. No one has to look into the eyes of their abuser, those eyes staring at them is how it all began.
     
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  14. KarenUK

    KarenUK Well-Known Member

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    Oprah stands by her statements

    Oprah Talks 'Leaving Neverland' Backlash, Affirms Support For Michael Jackson's Accusers

    “When I first saw that documentary, I realized a lot of people were going to get triggered watching it, and that a lot of people will not understand what the pattern is,” Oprah told Trevor Noah on The Daily Show last night. “Because I had done 217 shows [on The Oprah Winfrey Show] trying to get people to understand that it’s not about one person, it’s about the pattern, it’s about the seduction. People called it molestation but there is a big seducing that goes on and the pattern of that seducing. And that was important enough to me to take the hateration.”
     
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  15. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I'm sorry. This is not true. If he wasn't famous everyone would recognize the problem.

    He had the signs of a classic pedophile, including saying he loves all children, that he still feels like a child, posing for photos with kids like they were adult lovers, giving them access to adult pornography, spending lavish amounts of money on them and their parents, taking them on trips, not having them spend the night in his bed until they've spent considerable time with him, isolating them from family after a certain amount of time, etc. :

    Be aware of common behaviours demonstrated by child molesters. A child molester often doesn't display as much interest in adults as they do in children. They may have jobs that allow them to be around children of a certain age group, or contrive other ways to spend time with children by acting as a coach, babysitter or neighbour trying to help.[8]
    • Child molesters tend to talk about or treat children as though they are adults. They might refer to a child as they would refer to an adult friend or lover. [9]
    • Child molesters often say they love all children or feel as though they are still children.
    Look for signs of grooming.The term "grooming" refers to the process the child molester undertakes to gain a child's trust, and sometimes the parents' trust as well. Over the course of months or even years, a child molester will increasingly become a trusted friend of the family, offering to babysit, take the child shopping or on trips, or spend time with the child in other ways. Many child molesters won't actually begin abusing a child until trust has been gained. Some may use others opinions around them to back up their trustworthiness in order to take children shopping.

    • Some child molesters prey on the children of single parents who aren't available to provide as much supervision or convince parents that they are nice enough people to supervise without them.
    • A child molester will often use a range of games, tricks, activities and language to gain trust and/or deceive a child. These include: keeping of secrets (secrets are valuable to most kids, being seen as something "adult" and a source of power), sexually explicit games, fondling, kissing, touching, sexually suggestive behaviour, exposing a child to pornographic material, coercion, bribery, flattery, and—worst of all—affection and love. Be aware that these tactics are ultimately used to isolate and confuse your child.
    How to Identify a Pedophile
     
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  16. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for sharing your opinion and anecdotes. The actual facts tell a very different story. As i said before......If MJ was a pedophile I do not believe we have heard from any of his actual victims as of yet.

    Imagine if you are wrong. Imagine if MJ truly just innocently loved children because everyone else in his entire life wanted something from him.....the adults in his life were always playing an angle trying to manipulate and deceive.

    If you are wrong about your anecdotal suspicions... one of the most most talented and compassionate human beings ever is being destroyed. He was destroyed his entire life from age 5 to 50 and now posthumously he is under attack like never before.

    Please understand, in my mind I am not supporting a child molester. I am supporting a beautiful human being who has brought more joy to this world than everyone else combined.
     
  17. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    Incorrect. There have been five different "special friends" who accused him of sexual molestation and one other of sexually inappropriate harassment via phone when the kid was a teenager. So six kids total.

    http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/011805pltreqaseemd.pdf

    And my opinion isn't based on the media suggesting he was a weirdo. It's based on my own eyes and ears. I've known he was a pedophile since I was a teenager because I WATCHED him dating and grooming little boys.

    I haven't seen the documentary and don't plan on it. I don't care if there are some discrepancies. That can happen with young victims of abuse. But everything else is overwhelming:

    1. He publicly dated a succession of little boys.
    2. He groomed them and their parents with extravagant trips and expensive gifts. Buying them jewelry. Taking them on tour for weeks and months.
    3. He spent hours with little boys on the phone late at night.
    4. He admitted to sleeping in the same bed with these little boys. During testimony it was determined that he spent weeks in the same bed with some of them who accompanied him on tour.
    5. He had a secret bedroom chamber outfitted with cameras and alarms. He slept in there with the little boys. That's in testimony.
    6. Several books and photos of naked little boys were found in his bedroom in a locked cabinet. One of the naked boy books was personally inscribed by jackson which shows it was important to him.
    7. Six of his "special friends" alleged he molested them or in the case of one, sexually harassed him by phone.

    Michael Jackson’s young friends

    http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/011805pltreqaseemd.pdf

    The allegations hold up to scrutiny. They are backed by what the kids who testified in his defense stated as far as grooming, layout of home, spending the night in his bed, porn, etc., they match up with the evidence found in his home and they match up with what we all saw with our own eyes- his dating of little boys.

    Funny "coincidence" that an adult boy lover who spends all his time with little boys, poses with them provocatively, has been accused of being sexually inappropriate by six of them, sleeps alone in the same bed with them for hundreds of days, fits the description of pedophilic behavior, etc., ALSO has several books and photos of naked young boys in a locked cabinet in his highly alarmed secret bedroom. Some of which be persobally inscribed. Books written by known pedophiles.

    The evidence supporting that he molested kids is persuasive. And logical.

    I dig his music. I think his genius and talent are unparalleled. He also (like many pedophiles), comes across as a genuinely kind person.

    I tried to suspend disbelief for several years because I didn't want to accept what I saw. Probably due to liking him and his music.

    But I find it unethical to ignore what I've seen.

    Watching Gavin snuggling up to him like a lover in the Basherr interview was undeniable. As someone else said, I can't understand how anyone could look at their body language and not realize something was very wrong.

    And I believed Gavin's later allegations. I still do:

     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
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  18. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    BBM.

    None of this is anectodal. This is how pedophiles behave. It's well understood. And there is actual evidence that he dated, groomed and otherwise fit the patterns of a pedophile.

    His testimony, his statements, his defender's testimony and statements, the evidence found in his home, his behavior that we could all see with these young boys, etc.

    All of it supports the credibility of the allegations.

    It is clear to me, respectfully, that fandom of this man blinding people to the evidence. You think MJ brought more joy to the world than "everyone else COMBINED."

    Whoa.

    He has brought more joy to the world than billions of people on the planet combined?

    I believe there is no possible way someone could believe anything negative about the man with that level of hero worship, even if they witnessed him raping a child, firsthand.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
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  19. AllyBeeUK

    AllyBeeUK Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how old you are, but I grew up in the 80s and 90s and watched with my own eyes as MJ groomed, manipulated and publicly dated a succession of little boys.

    MJ was a prolific paedophile. You are publicly supporting a child abuser.

    There is as much evidence against him as there could ever be. What is that you want? A video?

    I'm just at a complete loss with MJ fans.
     
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  20. AllyBeeUK

    AllyBeeUK Well-Known Member

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    He brought me no joy. He makes me physically sick. Your comment is absolutely correct.
     
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