Midwest

Discussion in 'Israel Keyes' started by bessie, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. bessie

    bessie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    :seeya:When posting about a particular case, PLEASE :please: type the victims' names in the title of your post.

    :tyou:

    Use this thread to discuss other potential victims the Midwestern states.

    The dates from the FBI timeline are meant as a general reference since exact locations were not provided for all timeframes.

    MIDWEST
    April 12, 2007 to December 17, 2007
    October 24, 2008 to November 5, 2008 North Dakota
    May 19, 2010 to July 18, 2010
    October 15, 2010 to October 25, 2010
    June 2, 2011 to June 16, 2011
    June 8, 2011: Keyes flew from Anchorage to Chicago

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220907"]Timelines *NO DISCUSSION* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


    http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/201...released-in-serial-killer-case/keyes-timeline

    http://www.fbi.gov/anchorage/press-...he-publics-assistance-concerning-israel-keyes
     
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  3. Lucky 1

    Lucky 1 not all those who wander are lost....

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    Dennis Vern Kunkel
    Caucasian male, brown hair, blue eyes
    Last seen May 18, 2010
    from Medina, Ohio
    DOB: 4/19/66
    6' - 6'1, 165 - 185#


    [​IMG]

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/kunkel_dennis.html

    Charley project says he was supposed to meet his father and stepmother the next day to move a boat but never showed up.

    http://familysforthemissing.blogspot.com/2012/08/this-is-missing-dennis-vern-kunkel.html

    BBM
    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/show/9211

    BBM
    Medina, Ohio. Smack in the middle between Chicago, IL and Grabill, IN (where his two sisters were living at the time).

    http://www.ohio.com/news/family-baff...rance-1.193932

    http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/F...-Adults/Kunkel

    IK location:
    5/19 - 7/18, 2010: FBI Timeline - Midwest & Western US
     
  4. helpful

    helpful New Member

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  5. digndoodle

    digndoodle New Member

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    Keyes was unaccounted for in October 2011 according to the timeline:


    6/15/2011:
    Flew from Chicago, IL to San Francisco, CA on 6/15/2011

    6/16/2011:
    Flew from San Francisco, CA to Anchorage, AK on 6/16/2011.

    9/15 - 9/25 2011: FBI Timeline - Western US
    FBI Timeline puts Keyes in the Western US between 9/15 - 9/25 2011

    February 1, 2012: Samantha Koenig kidnapped/murdered - Anchorage, Alaska

    February 2 - 17, 2012: Alaska Airlines flight (Anchorage, Alaska to Houston, Texas round-trip).
     
  6. Backwoods

    Backwoods New Member

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    Introducing this case requires a little background -- please bear with me!

    In another thread, WS member Iwatchingeye posted a link and noted that the article there stated that IK had been ruled out in two 2010 New Jersey cases because he was in Arkansas on the pertinent dates (bbm):

    http://www.northjersey.com/hackensa...killers_eye_investigators_say.html?c=y&page=2

    Iwatchingeye wondered (and I did, too) whether "Arkansas" could have been written in error when actually Alaska was meant -- and later I realized that, if an error was made, the real location could be Arizona, also.

    Since the abbreviations for those three states can easily be confused, I thought that a reporter, working from an abbreviation, may have made a mistake -- I don't believe we have seen or heard elsewhere (MSM, timelines, etc.) that IK has been pinpointed in Arkansas.

    Studying the timelines, I don't think Alaska is at all likely, in particular for the April 28, 2010 date.

    If you look at the timeline at the beginning of this "Midwest" thread, it also seems that Arkansas might not be right, though, since there is no April 2010 time period given for the Midwest.

    On the timeline at the beginning of the West thread, however, we find (excerpted and bbm):

    Since that is from the "West" thread, I actually am leaning now toward ARIZONA being the most likely actual location, among the three states we pondered. Given the fluidity of the timelines as they have been released over time from the FBI, however, I feel it is possible that Arkansas may actually be correct -- and since I found an Arkansas case that dovetails so neatly with the April dates on the timeline and with the date of the NJ case ruled out, I felt it wisest to go ahead and post it. (Y'all let me know what you think...)

    Margo Lynn Horn (Margo Lynn Jordan) went missing from Little Rock, Arkansas on April 24, 2010. Her skeletal remains were found in woods on February 18, 2011 in Pulaski Co., Arkansas (a rural portion of the Little Rock area, I think).

    She has a thread on WS:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106780"]Found Deceased AR - Margo Lynne Horn/Jordan - 28 years old - Little Rock - 24 April 2010 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]




    ... and there was also a thread for the remains:

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129174&highlight=margo+jordan



    The WS thread for Margo sort of trails off ... no real resolution. I also have not been able to find any resolution reported elsewhere. There are reports of a boyfriend and also another man being POIs, but I can't find that leading anywhere. There is also something about a guy related somehow to the case being shot by LE ... all a little unclear to me at this point.

    Truth is, I cannot find where Margo's cause OR manner of death was ever determined (or, at least, reported). The last articles I find say they are working to determine these things.

    Some links:


    http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2011/feb/23/skeletal-remains-identified-missing-woman/
    more at: http://www.fox16.com/mostpopular/st...ains-a-mystery/d/story/v2s7DSkCFUyeCOKeaz8kxQ




    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/margo-jordan-update-remains-of-missing-little-rock-woman-found/




    more at: http://www.thv11.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=144863




    http://arkansasfreepress.net/Index/content/view/30/46/



    http://www.michellesigona.com/2011/02/update-28-year-old-grandmothers-remains-found/
     
  7. Foxfire

    Foxfire New Member

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  8. CanManEh

    CanManEh New Member

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    Hey I just quickly read through this but well too things came to mind the first being when i seen his picture i swear he looks familliar but iam way up in canada .Second was his brother the last one to see him it says he lept there but did the other brother come home while he was there the reason i wonder is brothers sometimes can have some disagreements leading to maybe a mistake happening ..Just a thought
     
  9. Foxfire

    Foxfire New Member

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    CanManEh, IK frequented Canada. I believe the info is on the FBI site, or early on in the IK discussion thread. There are many, many threads on IK. IK was a stealth predator for years/decades, oblivious to law enforcement. IK was an everywhere, nowhere man...

    I agree that IK broke several of his rules of prey when he abducted Samantha Koenig. The question is why? What was his motivation? I have my theory, as do many others. I feel that it was for notoriety. IK committed suicide on the same day that 'On Frozen Ground' -movie filmed in Anchorage of Robert Hansen; AK serial killer that hunted humans was scheduled for release;
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0_mrDgDe4w"]The Frozen Ground Official Trailer #1 (2013) - Nicolas Cage, Vanessa Hudgens Movie HD - YouTube[/ame]
     
  10. helpful

    helpful New Member

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    Been a long time since I asked, but I really feel like IK might know something about Florence Dumontet.
     
  11. shandram19

    shandram19 Member

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    I've always had this deep sense of wonder on whether or not IK could be responsible for Lauren Spierer. I have pages and pages of hand printed notes plus printouts of every IK timeline that has been posted here and elsewhere. I have a whole notebook and computer file dedicated solely to IK. I'll post a pic of my printout after I just summarize, as at this point I can't get the FBI timeline for keyes to come up anymore.

    JUNE 2, 2011: Alaska Airlines flight (Anchorage, Alaska to Chicago, Illinois)

    JUNE 2, 2011- JUNE 15,2011: Vehicle rental (Hertz)- Desert Plaines, Illinois

    JUNE 3,2011: Multiple Transactions (Indiana toll road)
    JUNE 3, 2011: LAUREN SPIERER goes missing

    JUNE 8, 2011: Bill and Lorraine Currier kidnapped/murdered- Essex, Vermont

    JUNE 9,2011: Hotel Reservation (Handy Suites) Essex, Vermont

    JUNE 15,2011: Continental Airlines flight (Chicago, Illinois to San Francisco, California.)

    JUNE 15-16, 2011: Hotel reservation (Days Inn)- San Francisco, California.

    JUNE 16, 2011: Continental Airlines flight (San Francisco, California to Anchorage, Alaska.)

    I understand it's easy to just blame everything on the serial killer who can't confirm anything. And I understand there are multiple other people who could be viable suspects in Lauren's case. It just REALLY has always stood out to me that IK was in Indiana on the day of Lauren's disappearance. I've been periodically going through all of his known travels looking for a pattern.

    Please remember these images are my own, and not to be used outside of websleuths. :)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
     
  12. BD1989

    BD1989 New Member

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    I too have always strongly believed that Israel Keyes was responsible for Lauren Spierers disappearance. It seems more risky than his traditional MO but who knows. BTW I have an excel file of the FBI timeline if you need to confirm any dates.
     
  13. mjk2015

    mjk2015 Former Member

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    it takes only 13 hours to drive from indiana toll road to essex, vermont so he certainly did have the time and opportunity between june 3 and june 8 to abduct and kill.

    [​IMG]

    there is no desert plaines, illinois. it's des plaines (which is written correctly in the notes but mistyped in the forum). he got the rental car on june 2 and had the time to be in bloomington, indiana (approximately 300 miles away) the next day.

    [​IMG]

    the distance between bloomington, indiana and indiana toll road is approximately 3 to 4 hours, less than 300 miles.

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  14. shandram19

    shandram19 Member

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    My phone must have autocorrected des Plaines into desert plaines. It's probably too late to edit my post now. Thanks for the heads up. :)

    Also thanks for the maps, they help me get a better understanding of the routes and possibilities. Your contributions are very much appreciated!
    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
     
  15. shandram19

    shandram19 Member

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    Thanks BD1985 for the generous offer, I love to have any and all files, from any sleuths who are willing to share, to add into my collection. In my mind, the more information we have to work with the better.

    I'm also glad that there are at least a couple of you that share a mutual belief that IK could be responsible for Lauren's disappearance. Thank you guys!
    :)


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
     
  16. mjk2015

    mjk2015 Former Member

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    i haven't learned much about her yet, i googled her name to get her location and i saw that she was a college student. what time did she disappear and where from? i don't know if you saw my thread about kathleen mcbroom but if he's responsible for her disappearance it means that he abducted her in daylight hours. i think he was very capable of abducting right out in the open and during the day. my other question is, does anybody know what day he arrived in vermont, or what he was doing the day or two before he killed the curriers?
     
  17. dub

    dub Active Member

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    The timing would have been SUPER tight for Keyes to have had anything to do with Lauren Spierer. Tight enough that I'm sure LE knows by the toll road transactions whether he could possibly have been responsible.

    She disappeared on 6/3, but very early morning like around 4am. It's not a matter of whether he had time between 6/3 and 6/8, it's a matter of whether he could have gotten to Bloomington quickly enough to abduct her, and whether he could have gotten back across the state to the toll road in a timeframe that lines up with the transactions.

    I don't believe it's known [edit: known by us--I'm sure LE knows these things]what Keyes' specific itinerary for 6/2 was, or what time the toll transactions occurred, so I can't rule it out 100% but I think it's just a creepy coincidence that he was in the state when LS disappeared.
     
  18. mjk2015

    mjk2015 Former Member

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    that's plenty of time for him to have done it. he rented a car on june 2. even if he rented it at the end of the business day he still had plenty of time to drive approximately 4 to 5 hours to bloomington. then, on the morning of the 3rd he could've done it and still had plenty of time to be at indiana toll road (around 3 to 4 hours away) on the same day.

    i'm just curious to know if there's any explanation of where he was and what he was doing between renting the car on the 2nd and killing the curriers on the 8th. what day did he get to vermont, is it known?
     
  19. dub

    dub Active Member

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    Of course based on the information available to us it's technically possible. My point is it's very likely that his toll road transactions make very apparent to LE whether or not he is "in play" for being responsible.

    Also to partially answer your question, according to the timeline he arrived in VT on 6/5. The article below indicates that between then and 6/8 he went fishing on Lake Champlain and, seemingly, scouted for victims until he found some.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/03/alaska-suspect-missing-vermont-couple/1743967/

    What's weird that I never thought about before is, assuming Keyes continued on I-90, in New York that's a toll road too. LE might have a lot more toll transactions than we are aware of to track his progress on 6/3 and 6/4.

    But why would they make mention of the ones in Indiana and not ones elsewhere on the route? I have no idea.
     
  20. mjk2015

    mjk2015 Former Member

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    i still wish the FBI would collaborate with independents like us. they asked for the public's help but they leave us all hanging. on their facebook page, they're constantly posting FBI jobs advertisements. they need help... so much help.

    yes, i'm making fun of them :happydance:

    thanks for the link / info. all they have to do is acknowledge us and respond. i don't think any of us are looking for permanent jobs but i'll gladly accept a hat.
     
  21. BD1989

    BD1989 New Member

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    I really wish they would provide an additional update to the timeline. Perhaps contacting them via email would help clarify some of the timeline? Specifically the toll road transactions, at least that would give us an idea if he actually was in play for LS.

    What do you guys think? Should we send an email and see what they have to say? Hmmm... While we're at it maybe we could also get access to some of those audio tapes that are no longer available online.
     

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