Miss Universe to Allow Transgender Contestants

oh_gal

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http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/10/showbiz/miss-universe-transgender/index.html?hpt=hp_bn9

Los Angeles (CNN) -- The Miss Universe organization announced Tuesday it is ending its ban on transgender contestants after coming under scrutiny recently when a Canadian competitor was told she would be disqualified because she was born male.

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Perhaps a better idea (for a more level playing field) would be to hold a pageant for transgender people, only. JMO
 

Portabella

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I have heard scant whispers of this on the news as I have not taken much notice. I have a bout of insomnia tonight, so I took the time to read what a person goes through (competition winning wise) to get to the level of even being and entrant into Miss Universe. So....I also took a look to see if this young lady would for lack of better words do the crown proud or was throwing the gender card so to speak in her attempts to enter and make it some kind of freak show. Well, I agree. She is gorgeous and would do the crown proud. So in my opinion they made the right decision and we need to get over it.
 

oh_gal

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I have heard scant whispers of this on the news as I have not taken much notice. I have a bout of insomnia tonight, so I took the time to read what a person goes through (competition winning wise) to get to the level of even being and entrant into Miss Universe. So....I also took a look to see if this young lady would for lack of better words do the crown proud or was throwing the gender card so to speak in her attempts to enter and make it some kind of freak show. Well, I agree. She is gorgeous and would do the crown proud. So in my opinion they made the right decision and we need to get over it.

I don't have any problem with transgender people wanting to be in a beauty contest. I just think that being born one gender and then changing your gender doesn't make all the contestants equal from the get-go. It would be like having a baking competition, but some entrants entered store-bought products instead of baking them, themselves.

If there were a competition for all commercially made baked goods, would it be an equal competition if someone entered their homemade banana bread, made at home, from scratch?
 

Portabella

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I guess to a point I can see your point. However if use of female hormones is the only thing being used I would not have an issue. Not to be blunt, but if fake *advertiser censored* were implanted for example, I don't think it would be fair to judge them say in a swimsuit competition and the others to have to have natural *advertiser censored*. This does open a can of worms in a way where it must be dissected and scrutinized. However, when it comes to facial features, hair, shape, etc. I think its fair because that is something this person has to work for just as hard as another girl to be that attractive, plus have some God given beauty and genetics involved too.
 

Trino

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I guess to a point I can see your point. However if use of female hormones is the only thing being used I would not have an issue. Not to be blunt, but if fake *advertiser censored* were implanted for example, I don't think it would be fair to judge them say in a swimsuit competition and the others to have to have natural *advertiser censored*. This does open a can of worms in a way where it must be dissected and scrutinized. However, when it comes to facial features, hair, shape, etc. I think its fair because that is something this person has to work for just as hard as another girl to be that attractive, plus have some God given beauty and genetics involved too.

Most contestants have had "enhancements," so what's the difference? It's estimated that 30% have had plastic surgery, and according to the article below, the Miss Universe contest ENCOURAGES it. Can you imagine? (See article below.) Then, too, remember the infamous "Miss California," where pageant officials actually paid for her boob jobs?

Many surgically alter their figures by using duck-taped cleavage, girdles and even chicken breasts taped into their swimsuit brassieres.

http://www.getmeso.com/blog/385/plastic-surgery-allowed-for-miss-universe-contestants/
 

AnaTeresa

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I really don't see why it was an issue to begin with. I'm glad they changed their stance.
 

otto

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I'm inclined to think that if the competition is about which plasticized woman is the most beautiful, then plastic surgeons should be receiving the awards for their artist creations.
 

Hopeful One

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I don't agree with this whatsoever.

This may not be a popular opinion, but I think this whole transgender thing is a mental illness. You aren't born in the "wrong body". You are mentally ill. And not that someone with a mental illness shouldn't be allowed to be in a pagent, I just don't think someone who was born a male and changed into a woman is now considered a real woman. JMO, IMO and all that jazz.
 

Portabella

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This may not be popular either...But I respectfully agree we disagree....
I don't think its mental illness because many have felt they were in the wrong body starting at as early an age as two or three years old. Can you imagine how horrid that would feel. I cannot imagine, but I try to, I just feel for the ones who cannot afford to alter their bodies to reflect who they truly are. I may be an odd old lady, but I could accept them as much as anyone else. IMHO... I am just happy to see people are starting to come around and accept people of alternative lifestyles....Its long overdue.
 

Donjeta

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I don't agree with this whatsoever.

This may not be a popular opinion, but I think this whole transgender thing is a mental illness. You aren't born in the "wrong body". You are mentally ill. And not that someone with a mental illness shouldn't be allowed to be in a pagent, I just don't think someone who was born a male and changed into a woman is now considered a real woman. JMO, IMO and all that jazz.

JMO. It's a bunch of bikini clad young people in a silly competition about who is the prettiest of them all. I don't see why being "a real woman" would be necessary at all in order to take part.

:kimsterwink: I think they should have some aliens competing to justify the title "Universe" :kimsterwink:
 

Nova

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I don't agree with this whatsoever.

This may not be a popular opinion, but I think this whole transgender thing is a mental illness. You aren't born in the "wrong body". You are mentally ill. And not that someone with a mental illness shouldn't be allowed to be in a pagent, I just don't think someone who was born a male and changed into a woman is now considered a real woman. JMO, IMO and all that jazz.

"Mental illness" is rather a loaded word, Hopeful One.

True psychoses are, by definition, incurable (though modern meds may moderate the symptoms). Yet gender dysphoria seems to be cured by changing one's gender. So I wonder how did you reach your conclusion?

(As for whether it's fair to allow transgenders to compete in a beauty pageant, off the top of my head I can't think what unfair advantage they would have--particularly since plastic surgery is already allowed at Miss Universe.

Allowing transgenders to compete as women in the Olympics, on the other hand, might well be problematic, since the Y chromosome might given them stronger bones, muscles, etc.)
 

oh_gal

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Remember the Seinfeld episode where Jerry's gf had "man hands"? That's what I mean about a level playing field. Maybe there are some body traits that men are born with, vs. women (disregarding the obvious, thank you), that would make the competition unequal.

If anything, I guess it would put the formerly male contestant at a disadvantage (man hands, and all that).
 

Donjeta

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But it's never been a level playing field anyway. It was never the sort of competition that anyone can enter and win if they try hard enough, not without a happy accidental combination of genetics. I was born and raised a female and I have feminine hands but they would all die laughing if I attempted to enter. The majority of womenfolk are at a disadvantage.
 

Nova

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But it's never been a level playing field anyway. It was never the sort of competition that anyone can enter and win if they try hard enough, not without a happy accidental combination of genetics. I was born and raised a female and I have feminine hands but they would all die laughing if I attempted to enter. The majority of womenfolk are at a disadvantage.

I'm sure you are beautiful, Donjeta, but you are right about this much: beauty pageants have almost always recognized very limited definitions of beauty.
 

oh_gal

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But it's never been a level playing field anyway. It was never the sort of competition that anyone can enter and win if they try hard enough, not without a happy accidental combination of genetics. I was born and raised a female and I have feminine hands but they would all die laughing if I attempted to enter. The majority of womenfolk are at a disadvantage.

Level, as in, everyone there is starting out with (was born with) the same basic equipment. I know enhancements will occur within that basic equipment, but, they have been born with all the same parts -- they haven't been added artificially. I'm not the pageant police, this is just my opinion.
 

Nova

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Level, as in, everyone there is starting out with (was born with) the same basic equipment. I know enhancements will occur within that basic equipment, but, they have been born with all the same parts -- they haven't been added artificially. I'm the pageant police, this is just my opinion.

I think the problem is that words like "real" and "basic" have no fixed meanings.

For example, we have a poster here whose daughter was born with two X chromosomes, but no vagina or uterus. She recently underwent surgery to have a vagina constructed: it is functional for sex, but not for procreation. (The poster has discussed this in another thread; I'm not mentioning her name here because it isn't really my story to tell.)

Is anyone here going to say the daughter is not a "real" woman? I should hope not.

Some people are born with both male and female genitalia. They often, though not always, pick the set with which they are most comfortable and have the other removed. Are they "real"? I should hope so.

And so on and so forth until we get to persons whose mental sex does not match their physical sex. Which is the "real" sex?

Let's remember it wasn't too long ago that "real" women were held to eschew sports, careers and positions of leadership because they preferred to bake pies.

This "real" business is a slippery slope.
 

oh_gal

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I think the problem is that words like "real" and "basic" have no fixed meanings.

For example, we have a poster here whose daughter was born with two X chromosomes, but no vagina or uterus. She recently underwent surgery to have a vagina constructed: it is functional for sex, but not for procreation. (The poster has discussed this in another thread; I'm not mentioning her name here because it isn't really my story to tell.)

Is anyone here going to say the daughter is not a "real" woman? I should hope not.

Some people are born with both male and female genitalia. They often, though not always, pick the set with which they are most comfortable and have the other removed. Are they "real"? I should hope so.

And so on and so forth until we get to persons whose mental sex does not match their physical sex. Which is the "real" sex?

Let's remember it wasn't too long ago that "real" women were held to eschew sports, careers and positions of leadership because they preferred to bake pies.

This "real" business is a slippery slope.

I prefer to bake pies. :waitasec:
:D
 

Donjeta

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I guess I just don't really understand why it matters that everybody is a real woman or parts weren't added artificially when the whole pageant thingie is just shallow but ultimately pointless entertainment (if you like that sort of thing) - why couldn't artificial and medically abnormal ladies enter a stupid show if they feel up to it?
 
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