Missing Phone Records?

[Nuisanceposter]

I don't think so. The more I think about this, the more I think it's been a simple c*ck up. I think this is what happened:-

1. John Ramsey has a cell phone for business/personal use.
2. He lost his phone in November.
3. John orders a replacement from Access Graphics but ...
4. Patsy buys a "little" Panasonic for him intending to give it as a Xmas present
5. John sees the panasonic charging and takes it to use straight away.
6. BPD check phone records for John's cell phone and see no calls for December but
7. They don't/won't ask the Ramseys to explain - preferring to seek search warrants which aren't granted
9. Therefore the BPD don't learn about the lost phone until later
10. By which time word has leaked out about "missing phone records".

I think this is probably a non event after all.

Oh for crying out loud...the sainted Ramseys KNEW having those records would assist in finding the murderer of their daughter, they KNEW police wanted to see those records...why should the police have to go ask suspects for anything, especially when they profess to be innocent with nothing to hide???

The police should never have to ask for anything from their suspects (that's insane!), and if the ducks are in a row in the filing of requesting search warrants, why were these warrants denied?

And again - the Rs had to know police wanted those records, and since they're so innocent and are dying to prove it and want to find their daughter's murderer, why would they not just hand over the records without being asked, or without a search warrant?

It might be a non-event, but with the way Thomas couldn't get a warrant, and the way the Rs weren't forthcoming without "being asked" (ludicrous to even consider!), it certainly looks like there is something to hide.

 

[Jayelles]

Oh for crying out loud...the sainted Ramseys KNEW having those records would assist in finding the murderer of their daughter, they KNEW police wanted to see those records...why should the police have to go ask suspects for anything, especially when they profess to be innocent with nothing to hide???

The police should never have to ask for anything from their suspects (that's insane!), and if the ducks are in a row in the filing of requesting search warrants, why were these warrants denied?

And again - the Rs had to know police wanted those records, and since they're so innocent and are dying to prove it and want to find their daughter's murderer, why would they not just hand over the records without being asked, or without a search warrant?

It might be a non-event, but with the way Thomas couldn't get a warrant, and the way the Rs weren't forthcoming without "being asked" (ludicrous to even consider!), it certainly looks like there is something to hide.

Why indeed? I'm not certain that it would occur to me to hand over my phone records to police if one of my children were murdered. In fact - I would probably assume that the police would be able to obtain them easily enough by themselves. Maybe things work differently in the UK? Maybe I watch too many fictional detective programmes?

The fact remains that if you read Steve Thomas' webchat, it very much appears to be the case that this was one of the issues where petty bureaucracy got in the way of the investigation. Thomas admitted that he preferred to obtain search warrants to obtain documents and records because the police didn't want to be beholden to the Ramseys - whereas the DA's office wanted the police to simply ask the Ramseys and treat them as victims. Neither would give way and the result was that the records weren't obtained.

Are you saying that's the ramsey's fault? I would say that the correct procedure would be to 1)ask the Ramseys for the records, if they refused then 2)get a warrant to obtain them without their consent and note that the request had been refused.

It's a pity when egos obstruct progress.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Why indeed? I'm not certain that it would occur to me to hand over my phone records to police if one of my children were murdered. In fact - I would probably assume that the police would be able to obtain them easily enough by themselves. Maybe things work differently in the UK? Maybe I watch too many fictional detective programmes?

The fact remains that if you read Steve Thomas' webchat, it very much appears to be the case that this was one of the issues where petty bureaucracy got in the way of the investigation. Thomas admitted that he preferred to obtain search warrants to obtain documents and records because the police didn't want to be beholden to the Ramseys - whereas the DA's office wanted the police to simply ask the Ramseys and treat them as victims. Neither would give way and the result was that the records weren't obtained.

Are you saying that's the ramsey's fault? I would say that the correct procedure would be to 1)ask the Ramseys for the records, if they refused then 2)get a warrant to obtain them without their consent and note that the request had been refused.

It's a pity when egos obstruct progress.

Well, I don't know about you, but if I had the attorneys that the Ramseys did with all of their inside knowledge on how the case was proceeding, and my daughter's murder and subsequent investigation was making the headlines as JonBenet's was, then I would definitely have known the police wanted those records.

If I was really trying to do all I could to find my daughter's murderer, I wouldn't have to be asked for anything - I would be right down there at the station asking how I could assist.

There's no reason for a police officer to have to ask a suspect in a child's murder investigation for any records at all. How ridiculous is that? "We think the Ramseys may have killed their daughter, so we better buddy up with them and get on their good side so they might oblige us when we ask for information that could end up being damning to them."

I'm not blaming the Ramseys solely for this travesty of an investigation, although I think they should take some of the blame. They did not do all they could to assist in the search for the killer. They tried to avoid helping while giving the impression of helping any time they could, with a convenient excuse of "the lawyers said no" when it was time to show up and help.

I hope you're not blaming Thomas or saying his ego is to blame here. The man did what he supposed to do, and was misdirected and shot down and made a fool of by Hunter's office. The ego problem was on their part. Go ask the Ramseys indeed. I can't name one other murder case that was hinged upon asking the prime suspects for records before obtaining a search warrant.

If I blame anyone here, I blame Hunter and the DA's office, and to a lesser extent, the Ramseys and their lawyers.

 

[Cranberry]

IMO If I thought an intruder was in my house I would want all the phone records for all phones checked thoroughly by LE to see if any calls were made in those hours.

 

[capps]

Why indeed? I'm not certain that it would occur to me to hand over my phone records to police if one of my children were murdered. In fact - I would probably assume that the police would be able to obtain them easily enough by themselves. Maybe things work differently in the UK? Maybe I watch too many fictional detective programmes?

The fact remains that if you read Steve Thomas' webchat, it very much appears to be the case that this was one of the issues where petty bureaucracy got in the way of the investigation. Thomas admitted that he preferred to obtain search warrants to obtain documents and records because the police didn't want to be beholden to the Ramseys - whereas the DA's office wanted the police to simply ask the Ramseys and treat them as victims. Neither would give way and the result was that the records weren't obtained.

Are you saying that's the ramsey's fault? I would say that the correct procedure would be to 1)ask the Ramseys for the records, if they refused then 2)get a warrant to obtain them without their consent and note that the request had been refused.

It's a pity when egos obstruct progress.

Thank you Jayelles. I feel the same.

 

[Toltec]

What if the "intruder" made calls on the Ramsey phone??? Wouldn't the Ramseys want the police to check their phone records?

When Officer French arrived at the home, Patsy told French that JonBenet had been kidnapped and that they were trying to get the money together.

The call to 911...the calls to the Whites and Fernies...the call to get the money???

 

[capps]

This is a bit off topic ... but what always amazed me is that the BPD had to use the Ramsey phone,because their phones were NOT WORKING! How much more unprepared can a police department be for heaven sakes! Did they forget to recharge the phones? Good thing some one had a phone ... can you just imagine ... "Sorry we can't call up for backup,our phones aren't working."

 

[sharpar]

Well, I don't know about you, but if I had the attorneys that the Ramseys did with all of their inside knowledge on how the case was proceeding, and my daughter's murder and subsequent investigation was making the headlines as JonBenet's was, then I would definitely have known the police wanted those records.

If I was really trying to do all I could to find my daughter's murderer, I wouldn't have to be asked for anything - I would be right down there at the station asking how I could assist.

There's no reason for a police officer to have to ask a suspect in a child's murder investigation for any records at all. How ridiculous is that? "We think the Ramseys may have killed their daughter, so we better buddy up with them and get on their good side so they might oblige us when we ask for information that could end up being damning to them."

I'm not blaming the Ramseys solely for this travesty of an investigation, although I think they should take some of the blame. They did not do all they could to assist in the search for the killer. They tried to avoid helping while giving the impression of helping any time they could, with a convenient excuse of "the lawyers said no" when it was time to show up and help.

I hope you're not blaming Thomas or saying his ego is to blame here. The man did what he supposed to do, and was misdirected and shot down and made a fool of by Hunter's office. The ego problem was on their part. Go ask the Ramseys indeed. I can't name one other murder case that was hinged upon asking the prime suspects for records before obtaining a search warrant.

If I blame anyone here, I blame Hunter and the DA's office, and to a lesser extent, the Ramseys and their lawyers.

I agree -

 

[Eagle1]

This is a bit off topic ... but what always amazed me is that the BPD had to use the Ramsey phone,because their phones were NOT WORKING! How much more unprepared can a police department be for heaven sakes! Did they forget to recharge the phones? Good thing some one had a phone ... can you just imagine ... "Sorry we can't call up for backup,our phones aren't working."

The police phones not working and the ransom calls records being allegedly missing, also one cell phone being "lost" seem like too much of a coincidence to me, and their not using the right kind of dogs, some other procedures, FW not seeing the body, Ofc French (?) not even opening the door, just may be a clue that higher-ups or a powerful pedo ring were involved. We have discussed discrepancies over and over, maybe should have tried to list them all, for maybe a better over-all picture. (The aborted 911 call on the 23rd, and S. Stine's turning away police at the door, when FW claimed his mother was sick but we later learned she was partying that night, I guess would fit into the list of important oddities.)

Editing to add one more "coincidence", the missing video from Christmas morning.

 

[Camper]

Yes, that is my belief. I think the Ramseys were hiding *something* - like an affair or possibly some other domestic scandal.

UK Guy mentioned they might be incidental in reponse, BUT IF IF the names of those people who were called or that the calls came from, were known, it would certainly CLEAR up any accidental speculation about HOW COME WE CANNOT HAVE THEN?

.

 

[Pepper]

Well, I don't know about you, but if I had the attorneys that the Ramseys did with all of their inside knowledge on how the case was proceeding, and my daughter's murder and subsequent investigation was making the headlines as JonBenet's was, then I would definitely have known the police wanted those records.

If I was really trying to do all I could to find my daughter's murderer, I wouldn't have to be asked for anything - I would be right down there at the station asking how I could assist.

There's no reason for a police officer to have to ask a suspect in a child's murder investigation for any records at all. How ridiculous is that? "We think the Ramseys may have killed their daughter, so we better buddy up with them and get on their good side so they might oblige us when we ask for information that could end up being damning to them."

I'm not blaming the Ramseys solely for this travesty of an investigation, although I think they should take some of the blame. They did not do all they could to assist in the search for the killer. They tried to avoid helping while giving the impression of helping any time they could, with a convenient excuse of "the lawyers said no" when it was time to show up and help.

I hope you're not blaming Thomas or saying his ego is to blame here. The man did what he supposed to do, and was misdirected and shot down and made a fool of by Hunter's office. The ego problem was on their part. Go ask the Ramseys indeed. I can't name one other murder case that was hinged upon asking the prime suspects for records before obtaining a search warrant.

If I blame anyone here, I blame Hunter and the DA's office, and to a lesser extent, the Ramseys and their lawyers.

Look, if someone were to ask me for my cell phone records from last month, they would be disappointed. I pay the bill and throw it away. I believe many other people do the same. If the PD needed cell records, they should get them directly from the cell company, and not the end user.

 

[Class-z]

I believe many other people do the same. If the PD needed cell records, they should get them directly from the cell company, and not the end user.

My understanding is, that this is what LE tried to do, but were blocked by Lin Wood. My question would be WHY? What is there to hide?