Too late to edit my previous post. Meant to include this.
Seriously, ^ "teenage brains" description seems to fit some teens in the vid.
To a T.
Missouri, St. Louis - Teenage girl critically injured after brutal fight with another female teen near Hazelwood East High School, 8 March 2024
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ID ID - Michael “Monkey” Vaughan, 5, last seen near home, Fruitland, 27 Jul 2021 #3
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Seriously, ^ "teenage brains" description seems to fit some teens in the vid.
To a T.
kaen
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^^^^True, from my experience as well. I would add that these kinds of events usually have been discussed, announced among groups, and shared with a wider school audience so that lots of students know who is going to fight whom.
Additionally, we know there was an issue the previous day. So there would have been a school admin plan to ensure that the situation on school premises remained at the fore front of all involved in student safety. Lastly, one thing I have experienced after having worked in a very large high with multiple gangs represented among our students is that gang membership is not just the preview of the students. At times, gang membership may be multi-generational including grandparents. Hot situations are not just hot in the building in that case---it is anywhere a group/gang operates and on the perimeter of the school building which is often neutral ground. I believe there will be more to the story. JMHO and JMHE.
If Death Occurs Years Later? MO. Statute of Limitations
MO. statute provides that prosecution for MURDER may be commenced at ANY TIME.
“556.036. Time limitations. —"
“1. A prosecution for murder… or any class A felony may be commenced at any time.
Hoping for full recovery for KG.
@mickey2942 Just jumping off ^ post.
MO. statute provides that prosecution for MURDER may be commenced at ANY TIME.
“556.036. Time limitations. —"
“1. A prosecution for murder… or any class A felony may be commenced at any time.
Hoping for full recovery for KG.
browneyes
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We will just agree to disagree. I wouldn’t even equate the aggressor’s violent reaction to a punch.
Allabouttrial
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So it appears the accused did not post anything on SM regarding the fight after all.
They initially took aim at social media posts they believed were made by DeClue, which referenced WWE and made light of the situation.
However, Bryan Kaemmerer, who represents Kaylee's family, was forced to retract the claims made in his prior statement, admitting: 'It appears that the social media posts that were made from an account bearing the name of the accused do not appear to be legitimate in light of additional details that have surfaced about the timing of the accused's arrest, the accused's lack of access to her phone after she was taken into custody, and metadata showing precisely when these posts were first published.'
www.dailymail.co.uk
They initially took aim at social media posts they believed were made by DeClue, which referenced WWE and made light of the situation.
However, Bryan Kaemmerer, who represents Kaylee's family, was forced to retract the claims made in his prior statement, admitting: 'It appears that the social media posts that were made from an account bearing the name of the accused do not appear to be legitimate in light of additional details that have surfaced about the timing of the accused's arrest, the accused's lack of access to her phone after she was taken into custody, and metadata showing precisely when these posts were first published.'
Kaylee Gain, 16, 'does not know why she is in hospital'
Missouri teen Kaylee Gain is able to hold 'limited conversations' but is unable to understand why she is there - as her lawyers are forced to admit posts made by her alleged attacker were fake.
I have multiple questions and believe these questions need answers so the totality of this “event” can be evaluated and punished to the full extent of the law.
1. Who organized this event?
2. Who delivered Kaylee to this event?
3. Witnesses reported seeing adults at the event. True or false?
4. If girl in detention blacked out during attack, why did she immediately move on to fight others?
5. Did any of the “fighters” or witnessed adults stay behind to call 911 for Kaylee or assist her in any way?
6. Who directed Kaylee to stand up to her bullies?
7. Why did an honor student/athlete report bullying one day and voluntarily show up to fight the next day?
Both girls at the center of this disgusting event are claiming they were bullied. ( family of one girl claiming it). This event is a graphic display that no one wins a fight. Duking it out in cage fighting fashion with no boundaries of conduct during said battle will result in more situations of escalated violence. In my humble opinion, we have enabled these situations by not properly punishing the smaller situations that lead up to this.
1. Who organized this event?
2. Who delivered Kaylee to this event?
3. Witnesses reported seeing adults at the event. True or false?
4. If girl in detention blacked out during attack, why did she immediately move on to fight others?
5. Did any of the “fighters” or witnessed adults stay behind to call 911 for Kaylee or assist her in any way?
6. Who directed Kaylee to stand up to her bullies?
7. Why did an honor student/athlete report bullying one day and voluntarily show up to fight the next day?
Both girls at the center of this disgusting event are claiming they were bullied. ( family of one girl claiming it). This event is a graphic display that no one wins a fight. Duking it out in cage fighting fashion with no boundaries of conduct during said battle will result in more situations of escalated violence. In my humble opinion, we have enabled these situations by not properly punishing the smaller situations that lead up to this.
Rolypolyoly
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For point #4, I don't think she blacked out, i think she just got caught up and went to far in the moment, and I also don't think she went on to more fighting. Watching the entire video it actually appears that she goes around trying to break up other fights rather than getting involved in more herself.
Just my observation. YMMV.
Possibly. However, I do think it is noteworthy that she stepped over the girls convulsing body as if she was just an object in order to help break up those fights. The casual nonchalance of all people there should bring that entire community to their knees. The community leaders need to really come together and lead in a better direction because what happened has been brewing for a time and my guess is there are many adults that knew about it. I guess I would feel somewhat better if the video showed the one girl seeing the other girl convulsing and showing immediate care or horror. I saw nothing of the sort.
Rolypolyoly
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I don't disagree although another thing I thought after watching and rewatching a few times is that MD doesn't even seem to notice Kaylee convulsing, she doesn't appear to look at her at all as she steps over her, and the rest of the gathered kids don't seem to notice it either, which is just as bad but in a different way.
PrairieWind
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I don't think anyone really "organized" it or someone "delivered" Kaylee to the site. But I imagine since a lot of people were gathered there that there had to be some sort of SM or texting flurry that discussed it. There are a lot of teens there and teens talk a lot and text and post a lot. So I am surprised we don't know more about what led up to this in the days or hours/minutes to the fight. You would think we would have tons of stories but I haven't seen hardly anything. I don't know what to make of that. Does that stuff exist and I just haven't seen it?
tlcya
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<modsnip - quoted post was removed (rumor)
all we know from media is that KG's mom denies having driven her there. I believe she issued that denial because SM rumors suggested she had done so. I do not think it has been covered in MSM exactly what brought KG to that area and how she arrived. All we know from the press is that she was suspended the day prior to this incident for a fight on school grounds.
Missouri teen Kaylee Gain's mom has struck out against rumors that she actually drove her daughter to the brutal beating that left her fighting for her life.
Kaylee Gain's mom denies driving her to the fight that left teen in coma
all we know from media is that KG's mom denies having driven her there. I believe she issued that denial because SM rumors suggested she had done so. I do not think it has been covered in MSM exactly what brought KG to that area and how she arrived. All we know from the press is that she was suspended the day prior to this incident for a fight on school grounds.
Missouri teen Kaylee Gain's mom has struck out against rumors that she actually drove her daughter to the brutal beating that left her fighting for her life.
Kaylee Gain's mom denies driving her to the fight that left teen in coma
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tlcya
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How or why KG arrived at that spot at that time has not been released. I suspect this was a known/scheduled conflict that was discussed on social media among the teens there that day. I know KG was not present at school because suspended. I suspect, as do others, that someone assisted her in getting there but she could just as easily have carried herself. I don't know how near or far her residence is to the school so she may have even walked for all I know. But I suspect otherwise. JMO
If the accused teen is tried as an adult we will find out eventually. If this case stays in juvenile system we may never know.
If the accused teen is tried as an adult we will find out eventually. If this case stays in juvenile system we may never know.
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kaen
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I would imagine that there was an organized decision to make this confrontation happen. I couldn't venture a guess to how she got to the place but it would not surprise me if there were friends/peers who helped to make it all happen. These situations are often the result of group think and allegiances with people who are still in high school and graduates/former students. Something made all of them show up.
I think it is important to remember that there is often a code of silence around these types of fights. Whether organized gangs or informal crews, the whole idea of "ride or die" is very important amongst groups of teens in many places but especially in areas where there is an issue of personal safety and honor in and among the group. Once you are part of a group you do not want to be on the outs with a group because it can be brutal. This thinking is what makes changing culture and preventing bullying so hard in many schools. JMHO and JMHE.
sleddogs51
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It's surprising to me that there has been total silence from other students that were there or knew what was transpiring. No rumors, scuttlebutt, opinions, nothing.
LadyL
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they're all afraid of legal consequences and their parents have forbidden them to talk IMO
also, if there are any violent gangs involved, 'snitches get stitches'
Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc
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I agree with you. She doesn't look at Kaylee. It's almost like she is on autopilot.
She likely had cortisol and adrenaline are both stress response hormones, which contribute to the 'fight or flight' state, which I assume both girls had coursing through their bodies, and likely many of the others starting break-off fights.
They are extremely powerful hormones, especially in teenage bodies.
With that in mind, I could see that MD saying she 'blacked out' could be her way of explaining fight or flight. Additionally, some people have problems with their hormonal response on a chemical and pathological level, causing low or high emissions of certain hormones.
The point is, I could see a normal stress response to actual physical malice being fight or flight and (after choosing fight in this particular case) trying to defend myself but also being hyper-alert to the fact that there are fights where maybe people I love or friends are being attacked or attacking themselves and wanting to help them, either to stop them fighting or stop an aggressor.
This might seem too theoretical, but it is scientifically shown that these responses and hormones are fact.
I have experienced this rush of hormones several times for many different reasons. One significant time, I was eight months pregnant with my third child, and a young mother at my elder children's school came storming over to me, yelling and threatening me because my son had run in front of her child on a scooter and her child fell off the scooter, a playground occurrence everywhere. My back spasmed, my knees wanted to give way, and my heart was faster than an F1 McClaren. A random adult took control of yelling mum, explaining it was an accident, and another random mum swooped in to ask if I was OK. I didn't fall, but it was the most intense feeling in my life. It took a good 45 minutes for my heart to settle, and ever since, if I ever have a stress response, my back spams very lightly, almost like a memory response. I assume the fact I was pregnant was why the response was so extreme.
Yet, I had absolutely no control over how my body reacted.
JMO and some food for thought.
ETA:
grammar
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Rolypolyoly
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This is an excellent post @Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc.
I have an autistic child with a PDA profile who's default is fight and recognise your description very well.
Very true. Her consequences (punishment) was getting her head repeatedly slammed into the pavement.
The consequences (punishment) for the more skilled participant need to be criminal charges and an adult and a meaningful amount of time in jail.
Hoping both have learned their lessons.
The right to be there / stand your ground implications would also apply to the first victim as well. Likewise, as the aggressor evidently also attacked a second individual the right to be there would also apply to that victim too.
In the end, I am thinking that the prosecution is going to seek jurors with children. As a result, there could be a good number of jurors with the immediate thought of: "That could of been my child being beat to the pavement..."
Theoretical arguments like the following might either not apply legally, or might not gain alot of jury sympathy:
- "Right to be there / Stood her ground"
- "Uncontrollable Fight or Flight Syndrome"
The solution could well be to accept the adult court and launch a plea bargain effort. A realistic plea bargain effort would probably need to accept more than token jail time.
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Rolypolyoly
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Those MMA references were proven to have not been posted by MD, who was in custody at the time they were made.