Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #9

[asyousay]

If I'm remembering the case correctly, the only phone call was when she talked to her friend from Seattle, WA. that night. I think the friend came forward and told police. I don't recall them ever stating in the news that they had checked her phone records. There has been speculation as to whether or not the phone company kept or had the ability to keep or know what the phone records were for private residences back then. Someone might help clarify this one.

There was two phone calls that night and the second phone call the police have never said who Sherill was speaking to.

 

[Catmommy]

It wasn't the stone age, just an earlier age. The police had the ability to trace numbers but it takes a search warrant to do so. The phone company NEVER just hands them over.

 

[MooseMeMuch]

One thing about sleuthing, IMOO, is that you must stop imagining what you yourself would do because this isn't about you or how you think, it's about what evidence there is and what that indicates.

True but isn't it about human behavior? (Watching "Criminal Minds" ....it's what they 'do')

It seems very strange that the girls had gotten ready for bed and taken off make up as well but that was now meant to be staged . Who would stage that, who would even think of leaving cotton wool buds with make up residue in the bin to show they had been home that night?

Has DNA testing been done on those cotton balls? Has DNA testing been done on the washcloths?
IMO....they should all be tested. They could all be Suzie and Sherrill's discards.

As to who would stage...someone who had a lot to lose.

 

[MooseMeMuch]

I guess the name isn't that weird. I grew up in a town with Pagans and Warlocks. Being used to a name isn't the same as it being cool.

The founder of the GGMC, he named his bike 'Galloping Goose'....I know, I'm a nerd. LoL

 

[Catmommy]

snipped

True but isn't it about human behavior? (Watching "Criminal Minds" ....it's what they 'do' QUOTE] snipped.

You're watching a fictional television program about fictionalized crimes and telling me that's a viable investigative barometer? No offense but part of my experience is serving on a federal jury and hearing the attorneys express their frustration with the fact that so very many jurors watch CSI and expect cases and evidence to be like that.

 

[cherrymeg]

Well, you probably are familiar with BTK. He murdered a family of four, the Oteros, all by himself. He got a thrill out of his crimes. Hid it from his wife of 35 years until he was caught through his own stupidity.

Most of these killers are stupid although they appear to be smart. Who would have thought one perp could kill a whole family with no help? Then he was too stupid to know that the floppy disk would lead right to him. DNA was left in all his crime scenes.

<modsnip - not from allowed source>

You are no doubt familiar with the arrest of the alleged “Golden State Killer.”Although he was actually a cop for a short time there was no DNA that linked to him. The connection was made through private DNA sources which had the DNA of relatives that linked him. Through his lengthy crime spree he murdered 12 victims. And he left DNA in most if not all his crime scenes.

BTK left his victims behind. How did someone make 3 bodies disappear without making anyone suspicious? They'd have to be physically able to move them. It's not a pleasant thought but it's realistic. The Lyon sisters' bodies were burnt by their killer or killers. Neighbor's were told they were burning an animal I think. There are questions about how involved the family was, they noticed bloody sacks. It seems like a lot of work to to make 3 people vanish.

 

[Missouri Mule]

BTK left his victims behind. How did someone make 3 bodies disappear without making anyone suspicious? They'd have to be physically able to move them. It's not a pleasant thought but it's realistic. The Lyon sisters' bodies were burnt by their killer or killers. Neighbor's were told they were burning an animal I think. There are questions about how involved the family was, they noticed bloody sacks. It seems like a lot of work to to make 3 people vanish.

He had about a two hour window of opportunity to get them in the car or van. The only way we would know for sure is if we had a time machine.

I’m guessing Suzie came out of the house first when a possible stalker got her to come out. She had her window blinds cracked and probably recognized him. I think it is likely Sherrill heard the commotion. They were then incapacitated. But it was necessary to go into the house to get Stacy. That would likely be where the DNA was deposited.

The motive would be all important. That would probably fill in most of the blanks. I think a probable sexual predator.

<modsnip - not from allowed source>

 

[MooseMeMuch]

snipped

You're watching a fictional television program about fictionalized crimes and telling me that's a viable investigative barometer? No offense but part of my experience is serving on a federal jury and hearing the attorneys express their frustration with the fact that so very many jurors watch CSI and expect cases and evidence to be like that.

ouch...yes, you are correct "Criminal Minds" is a fictional who. Never watched CSI.


Soooooo, there's no B.A.U.? Behavioral Analysis Unit? Uh, yes. There is.
"In order to generate profiles of offenders, members of the BAU use a concept known as psychological profiling."
Criticism abounds as to how beneficial 'psychological profiling' is.

Behavioral Analysis Unit - Wikipedia

 

[cherrymeg]

<modsnip - quoted post has been removed >
Let's get this on Cold Justice.

 

[cherrymeg]

Well, you probably are familiar with BTK. He murdered a family of four, the Oteros, all by himself. He got a thrill out of his crimes. Hid it from his wife of 35 years until he was caught through his own stupidity.

Most of these killers are stupid although they appear to be smart. Who would have thought one perp could kill a whole family with no help? Then he was too stupid to know that the floppy disk would lead right to him. DNA was left in all his crime scenes.

<modsnip - not from allowed source >

You are no doubt familiar with the arrest of the alleged “Golden State Killer.”Although he was actually a cop for a short time there was no DNA that linked to him. The connection was made through private DNA sources which had the DNA of relatives that linked him. Through his lengthy crime spree he murdered 12 victims. And he left DNA in most if not all his crime scenes.

If you are holding back info or you think other people are. Speak out.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I believe we are going to have to revisit the fact that no apparent motive is evident.

In another forum it was noted that motiveless murders are almost always committed by teenagers up to about 21 or so. I did not know that. That changes the way I will look at this case in the future.

It has to be cleared up and calls into question why the cops didn’t pursue that angle more closely but seemed to brush it off without evidence.

I have gone around and around on the APCO sighting and it does appear to have legs.

The police should have cleared this up long ago. Which begs the question, why didn’t they?

 

[flute4peace]

In the several years I worked with her, nothing ever leaked out and she had close friends and we got along well. To me that is a powerful argument against his involvement.
.

Perhaps Mrs. Carnahan wasn’t aware of her husband’s involvement?

 

[cherrymeg]

<modsnip - quoted post has been removed >
I was under the impression because of the people that went through the house that day and even prior to the crime, it made it hard to figure out what forensic evidence belonged there and what didn't. Does that make sense?

 

[Missouri Mule]

I was under the impression because of the people that went through the house that day and even prior to the crime, it made it hard to figure out what forensic evidence belonged there and what didn't. Does that make sense?

I’m sure all of the visitors to the home had to provide samples of their DNA. If other DNA that was unidentified and no hair follicles was found it is highly probable he was wearing a hat or cap of some kind. Since the floor was evidently vacuumed it must have been a tedious project to match what was found with everyone known to be in the house but I’m sure that was done.

 

[MooseMeMuch]

The 2nd Apco sighting, I believe is the truth and sadly the 'broad' next door, who must have had excellent eyesight and glanced over at just the right time...disagreed with the Apco attendant (a young man).
LE agreed with someone yards away vs a person a few feet away. That makes no sense.

It would certainly be something I would remember..... a desperate mother, asking if I'd seen 3 young girls, at about 2 a.m. I'm guessing it wasn't a nightly occurrence.

 

[cherrymeg]

I’m sure all of the visitors to the home had to provide samples of their DNA. If other DNA that was unidentified and no hair follicles was found it is highly probable he was wearing a hat or cap of some kind. Since the floor was evidently vacuumed it must have been a tedious project to match what was found with everyone known to be in the house but I’m sure that was done.

Did they ever confirm that there were any tests done in the house? Or that all visitors were given a DNA test? The lack of a crime scene or the fact that no one knew a crime occurred in the house would make testing people that said they were there expensive and pointless. They also moved in recently. DNA or fingerprints being in the house doesn't make someone guilty or innocent.

 

[flute4peace]

Just a friendly reminder from a WS member to WS members - what we have here is a he said-he said situation. Obviously there is a lot of passion for this case and emotions run high. Unfortunately, without a link to LE, MSM or public records, stating things as factual runs the risk of TOS violation. Even though I’m very interested in this line of thought, since it’s relevant to my theory, I would be sad to see the thread ahut down over it. JMHO.

 

[Scooby Doo 4U]

Here is a link to some good articles on Steven Garrison if anyone want's to read what the News actually wrote about him in the past.
Articles-Garrison | Forum

 

[Scooby Doo 4U]

More articles on Steven Garrison, as well as some pictures of the house and the police processing the house, as well as a couple other potential suspects. I only used this proboard site because it was easily accessible and easy to post a link to. Some of the things posted by people should be taken with a grain of salt. But, it does provide a good look at the house, and pictures and some additional articles on Steven Garrison.
Photos | Forum

 

[Missouri Mule]

Perhaps Mrs. Carnahan wasn’t aware of her husband’s involvement?

‘Everyone” knew about Carnahan as it was an ‘open’ secret.