Mitigating Factor:Could Casey Have Post-Partum Psychosis?

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You guys are killing me. if you don't like the thread don't post in it, don't read it, don't even think about it! Fuggetahboutit
Please stick to PPD. If you want to dicuss forms of mental illness, bipolar, socipathy or anything else, find the appropriate thread please.
Gracias.
 
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/files/umjournal08.pdf
The Supreme Court’s Emerging Death
Penalty Jurisprudence: Severe Mental
Illness as the Next Frontier
Bruce J. Winick
Professor of Law
#2008-31


Snippet.......looks like the whole article but the article is 74 pages.
I think this may impact the PPD issue........even though KC was not previously diagnosed, it does not negate it as an option. VERY interesting.....

B. How Should Disqualification from Capital Punishment for Mental Illness be Determined
Procedurally?
Assuming that the Eighth Amendment ban decreed in Atkins and Roper should extend to
at least some offenders with severe mental illnesses that similarly reduce their culpability and
deterability, a significant question is how this issue should be determined. Should it be
determined by the trial judge at a pretrial hearing, by a special jury convened for purposes of
making such a pretrial determination, by the capital jury at the penalty phase, or by some
combination of these? In every jurisdiction allowing for death penalty sentences, capital cases
are bifurcated trials in which the trial on guilt or innocence is followed, for those who are
convicted, by a separate penalty phase at which the same jury hears evidence concerning
aggravating and mitigating circumstances and is asked to recommend life or death.275 If the
Eighth Amendment exclusion issue is determined pre-trial, either by the trial judge or by a
special jury, this would remove the death penalty from consideration for cases in which the
274 See Laurence H. Tribe, Structural Due Process, 10 Harv. C.R.-C.L. L. Rev. 269, 294-96 (1975).
275 Bowers, CAPITAL PUNISHMENT, supra note 65, at 425-26.
62
offender’s mental illness would render capital punishment a disproportionate penalty. Such a
preliminary determination would occur following a hearing at which expert clinical testimony
would be adduced. In such cases, if capital punishment were determined to be a disproportionate
penalty in view of the offender’s mental illness at the time of the offense, the death penalty
would be removed from consideration and the case would proceed as a non-capital homicide
case. In the alternative, the Eighth Amendment exclusion issue could be folded into the penalty
phase, and the capital jury could be asked to make the determination, either at the outset of the
penalty trial or as part of its weighing of aggravating and mitigating circumstances. Indeed, it is
possible to conclude that allowing the capital jury at the penalty phase to consider evidence of
mental illness would be all that should be required, and that a pretrial determination of the issue
would be unnecessary.
How should these issues be determined? In declaring the death penalty for those with
mental retardation unconstitutional, the Supreme Court in Atkins declined to specify procedures
for determining whether a particular offender was mentally retarded, preferring to leave this
procedural question to the states.276 In thinking about the question of how the mental illness
death penalty exemption determination should be made, we should consider which procedural
device would best effectuate the underlying Eighth Amendment values. In addition, we should
take into account considerations of accuracy, cost, and therapeutic jurisprudence.277
276 Atkins
 
The psyche evaluation Casey had prior to the bond hearing was sealed. But I'm sure the prosecution and her defense team have had access to that evaluation, and if there was ANYTHING in that evaluation they could hang their hat on, the defense would be getting prepared to use it. There's no evidence that the defense has had an independent psyche evaluation done.

The defense is going with the claim that Casey is innocent and someone else murdered Caylee. But, the defense has to be prepared for a guilty verdict, and might use a claim of mental illness to mitigate the sentence during the penalty phase of the trial. There's no evidence that the defense team has brought onboard any sort of mental health expert, although they might do that between the trial phase and penalty phase.

My best guess is that there's nothing in the preliminary psyche evaluation to base a mental illness claim on. The defense is going with the defense that Casey is innocent and someone else murdered Caylee. In the event of a guilty verdict, they'll use her parents behavior to mitigate her punishment. There's plenty of evidence - evidence everyone here and the public at large has witnessed since July 15, 2008, of the parent's bizarre behavior and their failure as parents.

While I don't think George and Cindy can be blamed for Caylee's death, their behavior and the manner in which they parented Casey only made things worse and did nothing to prevent what ultimately happened.
 
One of several references I pulled:
http://www.everettclinic.com/kbase/topic/major/tn9653/descrip.htm

Can you get postpartum depression after a miscarriage? Yes. Can it last for months? Yes. Can you get postpartum psychosis from a miscarriage? I did not find any data either way, BUT I am sure that you all have defined it beautifully here. It is NOTICABLE. Seeing things, hearing things, tasting things that dont exist...lack of self care, weight loss/gain etc.

Not noticing any of that with Casey. I would like to see the documentation of the incident itself...
 
Could Casey suffer from Post Partum psychosis ? I say NO way ! That is my opinion because Casey 's school friends, and present friends said what a LIAR she is. IMO her sociopathic behavior are THE direct result being that she is a TRUE product of her environment.I doubt Casey has ever had limits, boundaries, rules,and was always protected by George and Cindy for her bad behavior.Her parents covered up for her transgressions, never held her accountable. So I feel that Casey thinks she can do whatever she wants to whomever, and it is always someone else's fault !
 
Q - "could Casey have Post-Partum Psychosis?"

A - No.
 
I think the only way PPD or PPP would come into play in this case is if the nanny had it. According to KC, she had nothing to do with the disappearance or death of Caylee, so her own personal demons, as difficult to handle as they might be, don't come into play in her defense.

Until the day she stands up in court and says "I did this, and I did it because..." none of this will matter legally. Even in the DP phase, should it get that far, KC will still be saying she was framed, and her own issues won't matter.

JMO :)

:clap:
 
This thread is about possible post partum psychosis.Is it reasonable or possible? if so could it be used as a mitigating factor?

VERY GOOD QUESTION!!! And from recent personal experience on this very thing I think it IS a possibility that KC had some sort of PPD (weather it may have been PPD/psycosis -classic PPD -or the other one I can't think of at this moment.

I also believ that KC suffered from some sort of this "disorder" and never went to get the professional help needed. Per MM and AD statements. She (kc) went to mom and told her everything would be OKay! Now here we are.

Like I've mentioned on other threads regarding this subject. PPD is a profound disease. And left untreated can turn into all sorts of depression. And add the fact that you have open wounds from the ppd that were never resolved. And living under CA scrutiny, even tho uninteded, would still be enough to drive a new mother with ppd a bit over the edge. BUT most women know where to draw a line in the sand and get the help they need. And eventually get better.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, YES, KC could have had the ppd, never got better and all her other outside stressors made her problem worse. Hth -imo
 
Please do not take offense to this anyone, but I hate this thread. I think it does a disservice to those who have or have had PPD. I am assuming that the discussion is based upon the miscarriage information that has been discussed before-has there been any independent verification that this even happened??? Like a pregnancy test result? Cause you can be sure the SA has subpoenaed any medical records in existence for this woman.... jmo...

I not only agree with you but also find the notion without validity of any sort. First of all, that would be a heck of a long psychotic break. Secondly, her behaviour before and since Caylee's birth consistently suggests so many more symptoms that have nothing to do with PPD, even if there were a miscarriage.

I surely don't get the reasoning. As a defense explanation it would b laughable, IMO.
 
VERY GOOD QUESTION!!! And from recent personal experience on this very thing I think it IS a possibility that KC had some sort of PPD (weather it may have been PPD/psycosis -classic PPD -or the other one I can't think of at this moment.

I also believ that KC suffered from some sort of this "disorder" and never went to get the professional help needed. Per MM and AD statements. She (kc) went to mom and told her everything would be OKay! Now here we are.

Like I've mentioned on other threads regarding this subject. PPD is a profound disease. And left untreated can turn into all sorts of depression. And add the fact that you have open wounds from the ppd that were never resolved. And living under CA scrutiny, even tho uninteded, would still be enough to drive a new mother with ppd a bit over the edge. BUT most women know where to draw a line in the sand and get the help they need. And eventually get better.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, YES, KC could have had the ppd, never got better and all her other outside stressors made her problem worse. Hth -imo

With all due respect, though you may assert this as your opinion, what evidence do you offer to shore up you argument?
 
With all due respect, though you may assert this as your opinion, what evidence do you offer to shore up you argument?
Yes, another good question, and I think I may have covered this on the "in her shoes" thread...

As mentioned, my personal experience, and having the benefit to fly free, I consulted with many PHD's and MD's around the county an abroad, and they too have said this happens, although not frequently, it can and does. And unfortunately the DSM has no diagnosis for this. They simply call it depression if it has lasted more than 9mo-1yr+ months after the baby is born. Even though, the catalyst for the now diagnosed depression, began as PPD-shortly after birth. I can't even begin to remember a particular DR right this minute. But feel free to look any phd or Md up on google ad ask him/her what I'm "asserting as my opinion". Because I would like to have an answer why this is not taken more seriously in the MD world for lack of better term.

Hope that helps. Just trying to share. I personally feel it could be a bit of a mitigating factor coupled with living under the CA microscope. imo

(If you know of anyone (MD) who is working on this particular diagnosis, by all means, pm me and I will give him/her a call.)

Oh, and if you were addressing the evidence of KC having PPD of some kind, I don't have any. Was just a hunch from all the statements made by those closest to her provided in discovery.

Thanks
 
I get that you are bringing up PPD skygirl-but psychosis??? I dont see anything pointing to Casey having postpartum psychosis. PPD and post partum psychosis are not interchangeable...
 
You are correct it dosen't. I don't believe I ever indicated that KC had the psychosis. ONLY that there are the two, (and a third I think??) I agree, she may have had a bout of ppd, left untreated, went to her friends with the info, and it wasn't really followed through seriously. An I assume when and if she shared it with CA (the need to be commited) we can all guess why that never took place.

I apologize if I indicated that she (kc) may have had psychosis. I don't think she did.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
 
I think to even entertain the idea of PPD, which JBean can decide if we need another thread for PPD :), I think that there would need to be anecdotal information or tests indicating that Casey was acting out of the ordinary. In some way.

Not seeing it.

She has a good long history of compulsive lying, not working, partying etc. JMO, cause I dont know her obviously.

But while she may have been more frantic in May, June and July, I dont see something "different" in her behavior.

I still cannot wait to find out where she was going all of that time...which is completely off topic, so I will hush up now JBean!
 
It is funny that so many of us (and I do include myself in this statement) are so invested in our opinion pertaining to KC's mental state. I've read a lot of this thread and there are many posts along the line of: "No way! KC did NOT have PPP!" This is written with such authority and by people who never met KC, never saw her and do not have access to any official/professional opinions about KC's mental health. We don't know what the heck KC is dealing with. It is fun to armchair diagnose, but who among us really can say without any doubt that PPD or PPP was not a factor? We simply can't know. We can look to layman articles about how post partum issues generally peak after one year after birth....(and Caylee was nearly 3) but none of this means that KC did or did not have psychosis. We weren't there!
The film of of her strutting (in her blue hoodie... the one she paid for with Amy's check) clearly indicates KC's severely inappropriate affect. It is so obvious there is something wrong with her. Something big. The defense undoubtedly knows what it is and will likely tell all in the penalty phase...that's when we'll learn what it is. I do not think for a moment that it is much of a stretch to think KC has/had psychosis and "snapped". I don't like KC, I don't defend her actions but the vehemence attached to declaring without a doubt "no way no how she had psychosis!" is a form of schadenfreude.


Psychosis makes sense to me! The birth of a child can certainly change a person's mental state (Britney Spears). Those who think KC "categorically" doesn't fall into the PPD and PPP category....what makes you think that she does NOT?

From MedicineNet.com:
Psychosis: In the general sense, a mental illness that markedly interferes with a person's capacity to meet life's everyday demands. In a specific sense, it refers to a thought disorder in which reality testing is grossly impaired.

Symptoms can include seeing, hearing, smelling, or tasting things that are not there; paranoia; and delusional thoughts. Depending on the condition underlying the psychotic symptoms, symptoms may be constant or they may come and go. Psychosis can occur as a result of brain injury or disease, and is seen particularly in schizophrenia and bipolar disorders. Psychotic symptoms can occur as a result of drug use, but this is not true psychosis. Diagnosis is by observation and interview.
 
The debate is very good here.

I agree with those of you who say that the post-partum stuff (which I had, myself and can be used against you as well as in favor or you) be used by attorneys as a mitigating factor, but cannot be used as a "cause" of a crime.
 
Feel free to discuss both PPD and PPP on this thread.
 
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