Found Deceased MN - Alayna Ertl, 5, Watkins, 20 Aug 2016 *Arrest*

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Jwu, Aug 20, 2016.

  1. hokeechic

    hokeechic Well-Known Member

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    You hit the nail on the head. You described my ex to T. And i bet ZA as well.... my ex was diagnosed with narcissitic personality disorder NPD while we were going to marriage counseling together. We had two therapists who counseled us separately and jointly. My individual therapist told me that in about 1-5% of cases of NPD, there are individuals who cant be helped or refuse to be helped. She thought my ex fell in that category and against her own normal practice, advised me of filing for divorce. She said her business is in healing marriages not breaking them up, but folks like that either continue using you to their advantage, which was the case for me, or they begin abusing you... to some measure my ex had already began emotionally abusing me.... but leaving was the best thing i could do for my sanity. I have a child with him which makes me terrified bc technically he has every legal right to see his son. But i am always scared of what he might do, sexually or violently. He just has this air about him. NPD people can fool people for years, making themselves appear one way and deep down being totally different. There are many good books, one titled wizard of Oz and other narcissists, about this if anyones ever interested. Anyway, ZA comes off much like that.... gregarious, mommys boy (like my ex), using people (a place to crash) etc, but deep down they are pathetic, hateful creatures.... Scary scary.
     


  2. NewMama

    NewMama Well-Known Member

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    It's just so horrifying to me.

    I picture her parents waking up and wondering if maybe ZA took Alayna to get breakfast for everyone.
    I wonder at what point their optimistic goodwill started to turn.
    I wonder if it started turning earlier for one or the other.
    I wonder why ZA called his parents to ask permission to visit their property.
    I wonder if ZA's parents ever observed any inappropriate behavior.
    I wonder what LE will find on ZA's electronic media?

    As a mother to a 5yr old girl I just really want to know what hidden signs were there. (Or maybe they weren't hidden and someone does a moral inventory and notifies LE.)

    That her parents will have to live knowing a close family friend committed these unspeakable acts against their child - it seems too much to bear.

    It's just horrifying.


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  3. Rocco

    Rocco Well-Known Member

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    Anyone ready for some positive news? A ******** account was set up for Alayna's family 3 days ago with a goal of $10,000 to help out the family during this terrible time. As of today, there has been over $58,000 donated.
     
  4. Rocco

    Rocco Well-Known Member

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    I'll take a guess at why he called his parents to ask permission to visit the property: Because he wanted to make sure no one was there.
     
  5. AmyPond

    AmyPond Well-Known Member

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    Yikes. That is so scary!

    And you're right...creeps would definitely test boundaries.

    I was at the park recently and a little girl was on the bottom of a slide but too afraid to jump down (she was about 2.) Her dad was tending to the other toddler. I was standing right there so I just asked him, "Can I help her down?" He said yes. So I picked her up and set her on the ground. I would NEVER touch someone else's child without asking (I mean, unless they were in danger or something.)

    No forced hugs is a biggie. I actually never thought about it before because you often hear things like "go give grandpa a hug" or whatever. And we do say that to our 2 year old. But my mom, who worked with kids, often says that if a child...ANY child...doesn't want to hug someone, then that's fine. Even if it's grandma and grandpa. Because kids need to know they have control over that sort of thing. I honestly never thought much of it. But it makes sense. If we FORCE him to hug someone if he doesn't want to...even if it's a safe person...what message is that sending, you know?
     
  6. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    Thank you. I also wanted to add, that this couple at the reunion, were terribly conflicted as to what to do, about "creepy guy"...

    They were very upset and they really wanted to warn other people. They wanted to report the guy, but who would you report him to, and for what? I recall they left the reunion a little early, and they told a few people why. They got mixed reactions. Some took it seriously but others were :"Oh that's just *creepy guy*, he just like that, doesn't mean any harm"...

    They later learned that this guy tried to pressure another mom, to let him take her daughter for ice cream. He was with a small group of kids, he asked if her daughter could go, and she said "No". That should have been the end of it, but he kept working on her, " aww come on, all the kids are going, she'll have fun" ect...( Again, pushing back against her boundaries to see what he could get her to allow.)

    Families can make it so make it so easy for people to get away with this. It gets tricky...

    I once visited my sister, in Fla. I had my five year old with me. Her 13 yr old Grandson asked if he could take my boy for a walk. ( on a path that ran behind the large trailer park, between the back of the trailers and the woods!). Everyone was so pleased that the teen was being so nice to his little nephew... They looked me like I was Satan, when I refused to allow it. They didn't seem as happy to have us visiting after that.

    I have a few relatives I don't have much to do with because I "insulted" them by not allowing my children to sleep over, or for them to babysit, but I was not protected by my parents from preditory relatives, and I will not risk my children.

    We must protect our littles. Even of we feel foolish, or are looked at as mean, or are sometimes wrong about someone. The thing is,
    once a child has been molested or harmed, you cannot un-ring that bell and they will be gravely at risk of further abuse. Predators can spot their vulnerability like a "Lion Spots a Limp".
     
  7. Knox

    Knox Well-Known Member

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    Anyone talking about this guy on social media? Pretty quiet so far?
     
  8. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    I think this discussion of "signs" is good. The exploring of boundaries. Never thought about it. This would be an excellent topic for parenting classes. It would be a good topic for parents of newborns in the hospital.

    I was reading about the BTK killer on here . He sounds like he was an excellent father. Boy scout leader. Church leader. Good job. He fooled everyone.
     
  9. IBsleuthin

    IBsleuthin New Member

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    I actually only talk about it on here. I never bring it up or talk about it in my 'real life'. All these many, many years later it's still safer to stuff it.
     
  10. IBsleuthin

    IBsleuthin New Member

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    SO well written. My thoughts, prayers and best wishes are with you as you carry your memories. I'm sorry for your experiences.

    We move on though to be the protectors of our own children, and "Our revenge will be the laughter of our children." ~Bobby Sands

    P.S. I always have believed that the predator can also spot the fact that I'm not a mama bear I'm a mama DRAGON. :D
     
  11. IBsleuthin

    IBsleuthin New Member

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    Please read and print off the conversations that we have just had on here concerning how to PREVENT this from happening. You are the gateway to your child.
     
  12. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    I'm glad it made you think about it human. It felt kinda like a tj. But this perp seems so...ordinary to me. It made me remember how, sneaky, deceptive and oily these types can be. I feel so sad about this lovely child. I don't believe she left her home alive. Just a hunch, but I think he went into her room to molest her, and she made noise. (which he then stifled).I think that's why he stole her father's truck. He knew he was going to be caught quicker, if he just left her in the home and fled on foot. If she was alive when he left, I feel like she would have been frightened and cried. Again, just a hunch...
     
  13. MamaJoJo

    MamaJoJo Where did you go?

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    This is all very sad. I'm just reading Alayna's thread for the first time now so my apologies if what I ask has already been asked and answered (I didn't see any reference to it). Is there a possibility that she had been groomed or molested by ZA before he took her life? He had been in the home multiple times according to reports. I'm curious what his interactions with her had been prior to this horrific incident.

    As for him having snuck into her room to molest her then killing her at the house, I would think that the autopsy would show if any of the trauma to her body was pre- or post- mortem. I expect it was pre- and she was taken alive from her parents' house. Turns my stomach.

    Rest in peace, sweet Alayna.
     
  14. ohmygoodness

    ohmygoodness New Member

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    Excellent post! This is how it is done. Kids don't say anything because they don't know what it means until it goes too far and by then they feel guilty and part of the "secret". Like they have done something wrong. There must be something wrong with them. Very sad.
     
  15. LisaWL7TR

    LisaWL7TR Well-Known Member

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    I just wanted to add the grooming can be used on older teens that babysit away from home. Short story...the dad left beer and told us to help ourselves, I think now this was a type of groomg. The walk home that his wife insisted that he do for our safety was "very hands on and included a yucky kiss" We never told. He would prob have blamed us for imagining things after getting into his beer. We knew our dad's would kill him and we liked his kids and wife. We decided to babysit together thinking the problem would stop but he had 2 hands. I finally quit and mom assumed I wanted to date on those nights instead of babysitting. I did tell my mom later as an adult with kids of my own.
    So, please watch who your children/teens babysit for and if they suddenly stop.
    We were 13:and 15 and knew we had to keep it secret. I feel bad that I didn't stop him from continuing his ways with others back then. I would love to confront him today adult to adult!
    Sorry for the long post. Hopefully, it will help someone in the near future.

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  16. Dogface

    Dogface Well-Known Member

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    I jumped ahead a couple of pages, but saw the talk about what signs to look for, what can we do...questions I ask myself when reading a case like this. I came across this article a while ago and found it truly intriguing. It's about what Germany is doing to try and prevent pedophiles from acting on their urges. I would really like to see something like this in place here in the US(heck everywhere!)...https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/16/how-germany-treats-paedophiles-before-they-offend
    Some excerpts:

    And

    And on a side note I think so much of this goes back to a lack of emotional intelligence we are seeing in today's society. Everything is geared towards instant gratification. If this is something that is in the DSM, it's something we need to take action on treating, actively. And offenders need to face the harshest penalties. Our children are the cost of letting these people coexist and try to cope on their own.
     
  17. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    I read it and to tell you the truth, it made me sick. I guess these guys are sincere. Then I wonder if they meet up and conspire for nefarious deeds.

    I have such negative feelings about people who have attractions to children
     
  18. Dogface

    Dogface Well-Known Member

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    I think most people who do not have an attraction to children feel the same way. But, I think if it could possibly give one person a way to control their urges, it would be worth it. When it comes to finding these people before they offend, I think we have to do something different than what we are doing, which is nothing or hoping they seek treatment on their own.
     
  19. Damarna

    Damarna Well-Known Member

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    A little OT - hubby loves kids. He's always been the go-to when anyone's kids were crabby. He had the magic touch. He was born to be a grandpa. Sees a small child at the restaurant and loves to watch their silly antics. But he knows he has to be very very careful because instead of being seen as someone who simply loves children he's worried about being seen as a creep who 'loves' children.

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
     
  20. Damarna

    Damarna Well-Known Member

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    Court Records Show Anderson's Dark Side

    KARE 11

    ( Sent from http://www.kare11.com/news/crime/court-records-shows-andersons-dark-side/307490120 )

    From the article:
    "And he's like, "Just let me in." And he was pushing his face in the door and trying to push the door open. And I'm like, "No, you're not coming in, and you're going home right now. This is ridiculous.' And he's like, 'Just let me in, I'm going to F*** you.' And I'm like, 'No, you're not.' And he's like, 'You know you want to F*** me.' I just kind of laughed it off a little bit and was like, 'Yeah, I don't think so," the woman said.
     

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