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MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #13

Discussion in 'Jacob Wetterling General Discussion Threads' started by bessie, Nov 13, 2014.

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  1. bessie

    bessie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    11-year-old Jacob Wetterling was riding bicycles with his brother and a friend in St. Joseph, Minnesota on October 22, 1989 when they were approached by an unknown man with a gun. The man let the other boys go, but grabbed Jacob and walked away with him. Jacob has never been heard from again.

    Jacob on NamUs
    NCMEC
    Charley Project
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    Jacob Wetterling Resource Center - http://www.jwrc.org/

    Jacob Wetterling SAR and Map Thread - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


    MN MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, 22 Oct 1989 ***MEDIA THREAD***NO DISCUSSION*** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


    MN MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, 22 Oct 1989 ***CASE FACTS***NO DISCUSSION*** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


    Previous threads:
    #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #7 #8 #9 #10 #11 #12




     
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  3. HEY YOU!

    HEY YOU! New Member

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    Let's go for the timeline again. The other one that Cgorg posted was mostly based on DR's words. Most of these are estimations, Websleuths let's put this together!
    October 22, 1989 Timeline:

    8:20 -Call to Wetterling parents to ask permission to walk to store in dark
    8:30 -Boys leave Kiwi Ct
    8:37 -Boys pass abduction site (DR driveway) Aaron hears noise roadside
    8:45 -Boys arrive at Tom Thumb
    8:55 -Boys leave Tom Thumb
    9:05 -Abductor approaches boys
    9:10 -Boys run, last sighting of Jacob by Aaron as man walks up DR driveway
    9:30 -Boys arrive back at Wetterling home
    9:32 -Neighbor Merle Jerzak calls cops
    9:39 -Cops arrive at Wetterlings
    9:45 -Kevin drives up and around DR driveway
    9:50 -Cops arrive at DR driveway
    10:00 -Wetterlings arrive at home
    11:23 -DR 911 call
    11:26 -DR goes to scene, tells cops he'll search his own property
    3:00 -Cops leave scene unsecured
    October 23, 1989 Timeline:
    6:00 -Cops arrive at scene in am
    -DR drives up driveway, lifts crime scene tape and asks to leave (car full of instrument boxes which were not checked)
    -Cops arrive at DR school
    -Cops search DR car visually

    Now for those who know exactly where to find the times, please copy,paste and enter actual times. Add anything the is relevant to the timeline. Let's go from the top. These are mostly estimate except we know that DR called 911 at 11:23, Jacob was abducted between 9-9:15.ops left scene at 3:00 am and came back at either 6 or 8 am the next morning.
     
  4. KeepHopeAlive

    KeepHopeAlive New Member

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    Wasn't the 911 call made from the Wetterling residence? The boys told the babysitter and she called her father, who then called the cops. Is this correct?
     
  5. HEY YOU!

    HEY YOU! New Member

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    You are correct!

    'Wetterlings' house, where Rochelle Jerzak, a neighbor who was baby-sitting Jacob's sister Carmen, 8 (Jacob's older sister Amy, 13, was visiting a friend), called home. Rochelle's father, Merle, dialed 911 and then called the Wetterlings—thereby setting in motion the extraordinary effort to get Jacob back.'

    Quote states that boys went to Wetterlings, Rochelle called her dad Merle who then called police. Thank you KeepHopeAlive! Let's retrace the boys steps and get this timeline cleaned up!
     
  6. Dave K

    Dave K New Member

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    Here's a quote from the 911 transcript: found here on Thread #4, post #97

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...St-Joseph-22-Oct-1989-4&p=6041824#post6041824

    "This is Merlin Jerzak from xxx Kiwi Court in St Joe, right in the Township. I am right now next door to my neighbor’s, at my neighbors, the Jerry Wetterling family."

    So, from that, it sounds like the Caller, Merlin Jerzak, was at the Wetterling's when he made the call.

    Also, from the call, you hear/read that the cops show up, at the Wetterling's, while the 911 operator is still on the phone with them.

    Whether the guys had originally taken Jacob's younger sister to their neighbor's house, or, whether the neighbor came to their house for babysitting, I don't know; but, it looks like in either case, they were all at the Wetterling's when the call was made. When M. Jerzak made the call Trevor and Aaron were there with him and Trevor even talked w/the 911 operator.
     
  7. shergal

    shergal New Member

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    Yes, Merle came over to Wetterlings after his daughter called and talked briefly with boys and called 911 from Wetterling's house.

    In your timeline:
    "9:10 -Boys run, last sighting of Jacob by Aaron as man walks up DR driveway"

    Aaron never said anything about a driveway, he couldn't see Jacob at all. "When Aaron turned around to look, Jacob was gone."
     
  8. Sasquatch321

    Sasquatch321 Active Member

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    What time did the only supposed witness to the abduction, become known to be a witness? Thank you, Hey You.
     
  9. Sasquatch321

    Sasquatch321 Active Member

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    With the facts I've been given my list of top 3 suspects is as follows

    1. DR
    2. Kevin & his girlfriend
    3. Matthew Feeney

    Other-

    The Phantom Menace (from parts unknown)
     
  10. cGorg

    cGorg Former Member

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    Just to clarify....I did not base any of the time frames on DR's testimony...quite the contrary....the gaps are due to DR...not the other way around. I simply read everything from WS(which was referenced to reality, as well as other sites) and compiled the time frames....so if you look at my original timeline(there were 2)...you will see that the times that are solid in fact are based on fact and the times unknown are stated as such. Having said that, I agree...please complete the timeline as I was only able to take it so far.
     
  11. cGorg

    cGorg Former Member

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    Yes, Merle Jerzak made the call from the Wetterling's house.
    saintautumn.wordpress.com

    his words are confusing but I take it to mean that he walked to the Wetterling house and then made the 911 call.
    sorry I couldn't make the link work...but the description is there.
     
  12. cGorg

    cGorg Former Member

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    HEY YOU!





    HEY YOU! is offline Registered User


    Join Date:Jul 2004Posts:270




    Let's go for the timeline again. The other one that Cgorg posted was mostly based on DR's words. Most of these are estimations, Websleuths let's put this together!
    October 22, 1989 Timeline:

    8:20 -Call to Wetterling parents to ask permission to walk to store in dark
    8:30 -Boys leave Kiwi Ct
    8:37 -Boys pass abduction site (DR driveway) Aaron hears noise roadside
    8:45 -Boys arrive at Tom Thumb
    8:55 -Boys leave Tom Thumb
    9:05 -Abductor approaches boys
    9:10 -Boys run, last sighting of Jacob by Aaron as man walks up DR driveway
    9:30 -Boys arrive back at Wetterling home
    9:32 -Neighbor Merle Jerzak calls cops
    9:39 -Cops arrive at Wetterlings
    9:45 -Kevin drives up and around DR driveway
    9:50 -Cops arrive at DR driveway
    10:00 -Wetterlings arrive at home
    11:23 -DR 911 call
    11:26 -DR goes to scene, tells cops he'll search his own property
    3:00 -Cops leave scene unsecured
    October 23, 1989 Timeline:
    6:00 -Cops arrive at scene in am
    -DR drives up driveway, lifts crime scene tape and asks to leave (car full of instrument boxes which were not checked)
    -Cops arrive at DR school
    -Cops search DR car visually

    Now for those who know exactly where to find the times, please copy,paste and enter actual times. Add anything the is relevant to the timeline. Let's go from the top. These are mostly estimate except we know that DR called 911 at 11:23, Jacob was abducted between 9-9:15.ops left scene at 3:00 am and came back at either 6 or 8 am the next morning.


    I am curious where you obtained your minute by minute description....is it estimation on your part....or based on something solid? I'm not criticizing, simply asking.
     
  13. cGorg

    cGorg Former Member

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    Joy's blog states that Kevin and friends were playing cards until 9:45-10 pm....so they couldn't possibly be at the abduction site at 9:45 pm. So, I think this timeline should be dissected and finalized if possible.
     
  14. cGorg

    cGorg Former Member

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    But didn't Merle put Trevor on the phone to the 911 operator? So that would mean the boys + Merle were at Wetterling's house. I guess that's what you're saying but your quote seemed to indicate that Rochelle called her Dad and he called the police from his house....sorry to be persnickety.
     
  15. cGorg

    cGorg Former Member

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    I could be wrong but I think that DR first met Kevin on a news program interview, on one of the MPLS stations. So he would know who he was, please correct me if I am wrong....post #994,thread 12 by Ifollowthis
    I've seen this before but paid minimal attention...wondered if this could be verified? And wondered how Joy connected Kevin + DR? I think she said via a mutual acquaintance (for Kevin) and a request(by DR) for at least an inquiry to Kevin 'the tire track guy' as to the car he was driving that night (10-22-1989). It would be MOST interesting if there is a video of the 2 of them meeting prior to this.
     
  16. HEY YOU!

    HEY YOU! New Member

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    Most of these are estimations, Websleuths let's put this together!

    October 22, 1989 Timeline:

    8:20 -Call to Wetterling parents to ask permission to walk to store in dark
    8:30 -Boys leave Kiwi Ct
    8:37 -Boys pass abduction site (DR driveway) Aaron hears noise roadside
    8:45 -Boys arrive at Tom Thumb
    9:02 -Boys leave Tom Thumb
    9:15 -Abductor approaches boys
    9:20 -Boys run into woods directly across from abduction site, turn around and see no sign of Jacob or abductor
    9:30 -Boys arrive back at Wetterling home
    *9:32 -Neighbor Merle Jerzak calls cops
    *9:37 -Kevin hears scanner
    *9:40 -Cops arrive at Wetterlings
    9:45 -Kevin drives up and around DR driveway
    -Cops arrive at DR driveway
    10:00 -Wetterlings arrive at home
    *11:23 -DR 911 call
    11:26 -DR goes to scene, tells cops he'll search his own property
    * 3:00 -Cops leave scene unsecured
    October 23, 1989 Timeline:
    * 6:00 -Cops arrive at scene in am
    -DR drives up driveway, lifts crime scene tape and asks to leave (car full of instrument boxes which were not checked)
    -Cops arrive at DR school
    -Cops search DR car visually

    Now for those who know exactly where to find the times, please copy, paste and enter actual times. Add anything the is relevant to the timeline. Let's go from the top. These are mostly estimate except we know that DR called 911 at 11:23, Jacob was abducted between 9-9:15. Cops were called at 9:32 from Wetterling home, cops arrived at Wetterling home 8 minutes later. Cops left scene at 3:00 am and came back at either 6 or 8 am the next morning.

    *Indicates known times. Others are estimates based on the information that we do have.

    11/14/14 Changed Kevin driving up driveway time due to statement he made that they were playing cards until around 9:45-10. According to Shergal, Kevin heard the scanner go off at 9:37. He also heard the cops go by and then stated that they left to see where they went. I don't think they waited until 10, I put the time back to 9:45 unless there is more compelling evidence saying otherwise.

    Interesting to note, I played out the abduction according to the boys statement and it took well under a minute from boys being stopped to them being told to run. Try it. I still can't believe how quickly that scenario played out.

    Note to CGorg...Definitely pick apart the timeline so we can be as accurate as possible. I was not saying anything negative about your timeline, only that some statements that were made by DR were noted in there and that we should have an unbiased timeline since he is named POI that could skew the facts. I have estimated times based on the story that's been told from day one. I recall at some point a time mentioned for the phone call to the Wetterlings at the party but I can't find it. That would be the true start time and would help with the estimations. As it stands now, from the time the boys left to the abduction it is a 40 minute time frame. Any and all facts that are known in regards to timeline will change it for accuracy. Thank you, CGorg!!
     
  17. HEY YOU!

    HEY YOU! New Member

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    The fact that Kevin doesn't have a real time indicates he is estimating. I would like to know how quickly he and his girlfriend left the card game after hearing the scanner report an incident up the street. It would help to know the exact time of the scanner report that Kevin responded to as well. Shergal has stated that it was 9:37. If he heard cops going by and left immediately after but then did not see them from DR driveway, then he was probably right behind them by 2-3 minutes. Since cops had not yet arrived at DR driveway, it had to be rather quick. That being said, we need to know when cops arrived at DR driveway to give more accurate estimations of the unknown times.
     
  18. Fukiyama

    Fukiyama Active Member

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    For those of you who recall Joy's blog, help confirm something I read, please? I'd look again right now, but I don't have the time at the moment.

    Joy copied an account of the abduction from early on and it mentioned /Trevor/ rather than Aaron hearing rustling in the grass beside the road. Does anyone else recall this? I was surprised to read this at the time and I wonder if it was a mistake in the article. Or is it possible both boys heard rustling?

    That timeline looks good.
     
  19. shergal

    shergal New Member

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    Aaron heard the rustling, not Trevor.

    On the timeline, I don't think cops arrived at the abduction spot until after Wetterlings arrived home. I know it's been stated that when Charlie Grafft arrived in St. Joe, he stopped at the scene and looked at the bikes, before continuing on to Wetterling's house. He had just been sitting down for the 10 pm news when he heard sirens go by and talked with the dept. to learn of the abduction. So possibly 9:50 when he sat down, allow him 10 minutes to get to scene? Maybe 5-7 minutes? He would have seen the bikes at 9:57 or so? Hard to believe Kevin and Grafft never ran into each other.
     
  20. HEY YOU!

    HEY YOU! New Member

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    So what time makes the most sense for cops to arrive at abduction scene? And is there anything else that looks like it's off? I am so annoyed that I can't find the time the boys called the Wetterlings to ask permission to walk to Tom Thumb. It may be in that movie a Mother's Hope? Or somewhere in an interview when they went through how it happened. That would be super helpful.
     
  21. shergal

    shergal New Member

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    Here's some times I found from past threads and notes I had saved - you can incorporate those in your timeline (some already match):

    boys left home at 8:30 pm
    left store 9:02
    9:15 abduction time
    9:32 merle's 911 call - lasted 8 minutes
    9:37 Kevin family heard report on scanner
    cops arrived at wetterlings 9:40
    wetterlings home by 10
    polka fest at Del-Win went from 1 to 10 pm
    Charlie Grafft (sheriff) boarded helicopter at 10:30 to help search
    11:23 rassier 911 call
     
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