MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #7

Discussion in 'Jacob Wetterling General Discussion Threads' started by bessie, Jan 29, 2014.

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  1. bessie

    bessie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    11-year-old Jacob Wetterling was riding bicycles with his brother and a friend in St. Joseph, Minnesota on October 22, 1989 when they were approached by an unknown man with a gun. The man let the other boys go, but grabbed Jacob and walked away with him. Jacob has never been heard from again.

    Jacob on NamUs
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    Jacob Wetterling Resource Center - http://www.jwrc.org/

    Jacob Wetterling SAR and Map Thread - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


    MN MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, 22 Oct 1989 ***MEDIA THREAD***NO DISCUSSION*** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


    MN MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, 22 Oct 1989 ***CASE FACTS***NO DISCUSSION*** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


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  3. bessie

    bessie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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  4. shergal

    shergal New Member

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  5. Pensfan

    Pensfan Former Member

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    Forensic artists who have drawn their fair share of facial composites will probably confess an awkward truth about police sketches: They aren't very accurate. Hand-drawn composites by trained artists are roughly
    9 percent accurate
    in terms of producing a recognizable likeness to a suspect
    [source: Avril]. And as we mentioned previously, computer-generated composites statistically tend to be of even poorer quality than hand-drawn sketches, with around 5 percent accuracy [source: Avril].

    And it's not necessarily a question of the forensic artists' skill. The major roadblock to creating spitting images of suspects rests not in the forensic artist's hand, but the victim's or witness' memory retrieval processes. The violence, stress and trauma of being victim to a crime, as well as the time lapse between the crime and the police sketch interview only muddies recollections [source: Raeburn].

    So why spend time and resources on police sketches if they're neurologically doomed for inaccuracy? Forensic artists argue that the role of police sketches isn't to construct a perfect portrait of the perpetrator. The point of police sketches is to publicize crimes, attract leading clues and get the public looking out for suspicious persons [source: Lichtman]. That's why the artists will highlight standout features -- a tattoo, scar, facial hair -- that might jump out at passersby.
    http://people.howstuffworks.com/police-sketch3.htm
     
  6. Pensfan

    Pensfan Former Member

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    Vernon Seltz was a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic therefore, nothing he said should be considered as the truth. Schizophrenics have severe cognitive impairment of thought processes and their emotional responses. They are impaired with what are known as positive symptoms (delusions, hallucinations, and disorganized thinking) and negative symptoms (flat emotions and little or no motivation). Twenty percent of schizophrenics are treatment resistant and over seventy percent are noncompliant with their medications.

    There's nooooo way a schizophrenic with his irrational, disorganized thinking along with delusions and hallucinations abducted Jacob, didn't leave any clues, and fooled the FBI for almost 3 decades. A cognitively impaired person didn't commit this crime.

    Pensfan
    verified psychiatric mental health nurse
     
  7. ELOCsoul

    ELOCsoul Verified Author - "Finding Jacob Wetterling"

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    Agreed, a person like this could not have covered up a crime of this magnitude for any length of time. Jacob's kidnapper, assuming he was a local (likely), either died shortly after the abduction (unlikely) or he never spoke a word of the crime to anyone (unusual).

    In you opinion, how would you "diagnose" a person such as that? Aside from a pedo of course.
     
  8. Pensfan

    Pensfan Former Member

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    The physician that diagnosed Vernon Seltz would have used the current Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders of that year. Seltz would have needed to meet the criteria for schizophrenia and the subtype paranoid. Here is a link for the DSM IV (now using DSM V).
    http://www.dmacc.edu/instructors/tkwilson2/AbSchizophreniaDSM.pdf
    For subtype paranoid:
    A. Preoccupation with one or more delusions or frequent auditory hallucinations.
    B. None of the following is prominent: disorganized speech, disorganized orcatatonic behavior, or flat or inappropriate affect.

    According to articles posted on WS, Seltz told his physician many delusional stories about himself and children that NEVER disappeared. He also told Patty Wetterling that he was a psychic.
     
  9. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    Listen, can you hear the sound. Laughter sounds the same the world around.

    The message of the Wetterlings. Love and hope. A better world for the children. Please
     
  10. human

    human Well-Known Member

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  11. ELOCsoul

    ELOCsoul Verified Author - "Finding Jacob Wetterling"

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    Down in the valley, out on the plain
    Everywhere around the world a heartbeat sounds the same
    Black or white, red or tan
    It's the heart of the family of man

    Listen...can you hear the sound
    Of laughter all the world around
    High in the mountains, down by the sea
    Everywhere around the world laughter sounds the same to me
     
  12. ELOCsoul

    ELOCsoul Verified Author - "Finding Jacob Wetterling"

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    Dan Rassier is known to his students as Mr. Be Bop.

    Red Grammer, who wrote and sang Jacob's favorite song "Listen", earned a grammy nomination for his 2006 album titled "Be Bop Your Best."

    Red Grammer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  13. ELOCsoul

    ELOCsoul Verified Author - "Finding Jacob Wetterling"

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    What I meant was, is there a suggested diagnosis for Jacob's abduction, for the fact that he's kept it to himself all these years without telling anyone. Assuming of course, that the abductor was local.
     
  14. Jbrown324320

    Jbrown324320 Active Member

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    Pensfan, you are spelling Vernon's last name wrong. It is Seitz and not Seltz.
     
  15. Jbrown324320

    Jbrown324320 Active Member

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    Don't people with schizophrenia have varying degrees of symptoms? my BIL was diagnosed with it but he functioned enough to plan, carry out and escape after murdering his wife. He did get caught though.
     
  16. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    Hm. More info on schizophrenia please
     
  17. shergal

    shergal New Member

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    How awful, JBrown! Scary to have something like that happen in your family.
     
  18. Jbrown324320

    Jbrown324320 Active Member

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    Yeah it was a scary time. The victim was my husband's sister. We raised her 3 kids after it happened.

    The main symptoms are delusions (feeling like someone is trying to control their thoughts or being followed and harmed), hallucinations (seeing, hearing or smelling something that isn't really there), thought disturbances (racing, fragmented thoughts or talking in words that don't exist) and inappropriate affect (laughing when someone is hurt, flat feelings, overreacting for small things). It is inherited or it can be brought on by environmental stress.
     
  19. Jbrown324320

    Jbrown324320 Active Member

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    They can be in active phases with full blown psychosis and there can be phases where they are quiet or can control it with meds. It is an unpredictable disease. Many choose not to take their meds which makes the symptoms worse.
     
  20. Pensfan

    Pensfan Former Member

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    Mossad,
    Today I asked an old physician if he had ever heard of someone bleeding to death from a nose bleed like perv priest Bruce Wollmering at St. John's. This physician said, “Maybe the man had leukemia or some syndrome like Wiskott-Aldrich syndrome?”

    When I researched this low platelet syndrome, I found that it comes with atopic eczema. I recalled your recent post stating that Jacob’s abductor had eczema.

    What do you know?
    Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MN MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #6
     
  21. Jbrown324320

    Jbrown324320 Active Member

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    Pensfan, I don't think he bled to death. He died of a cracked skull and a broken rib that punctured his lung. This is directly from one of the monks (Br Klingeman):

    While going down a hallway, Fr. Bruce started having a severe nose bleed (he had been having them of late). He went to the locker room and to the sink to contain the bleeding. Next he probably turned to perhaps go to the health center before it closed and tripped over the bench directly behind the sinks and hit his head on a locker. It is believed that he got up several times and fell again on the concrete floor since there was now a great deal of blood lost. Bruce was found about 10 minutes after the fall unconscious. The EMT and ambulance were called and CPR was performed. I believe from the fall he had cracked his skull and a rib punctured his lung thus causing the massive blood loss.”

    http://www.behindthepinecurtain.com/wordpress/speculating-on-the-death-of-fr-bruce-wollmering/

    the campus life security person called 911 to report trauma. I am still trying to figure out how a nose bleed can cause so much trauma.
     
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