MN MN - Joshua Guimond, 20, Collegeville, 9 Nov 2002 - #2

[Giverny70]

Y'all are gonna give me a heart attack if we don't come together to work both theories in this case.

For the record, I completely agree with your perspective on this case and believe that people are becoming far too focused on the abbey angle. Perpetrators usually have an M.O. and Josh does not fit the profile for the alleged victims of the monks. Also, perhaps those that DON'T live in Minnesota are not familiar with how completely ludicrous it would be for someone to be lurking in the shadows after midnight in November, or going for a run through the same area. I have just joined this group (see my first post on page 23) but I do think this case can be solved even with the lack of evidence. And even if it's not, LE has stopped investigating so what is there to lose? Someone knows something; people talk and guilt festers, with the right questions and dialogue, we could figure this out.

 

[Giverny70]

This is probably unnecessary for most here, but I feel it is important to grasp as fully as possible exactly why some of us believe and have believed from the very start that Josh's disappearance and most likely murder occurred as a result of an attack by a sociopathic sexual deviant. You need to understand the depth and breadth of this behavior, along with the cover ups/justifications/rationalizations and intransigent attitudes that have allowed this criminal activity (sexual molestation) to continue for so long.Gay nudist retreat in Collegeville cancelled?

Curious why you would link sexual molestation and homosexuality? As I'm new to the group, I'll remember in the future to ignore any contributions you make as completely uninformed and unfounded, and completely driven by personal bias and prejudiced tunnel vision.

 

[Giverny70]

Unfortunately this case is no longer being worked on by LE or even privately, so good luck with an answer.

I thought the family had hired private investigators or is that not accurate? I could have been reading an older article.

 

[dotr]

I visit St. John's campus every year for recruiting events for my company. I was IMing with one of my new college recruits today who attended St. John's and we ended up bouncing ideas off one another of what could have happened to Josh. I have a particular interest in this case; I am originally from the PNW but he was the same age as me at the time he disappeared. I also went to a private, small secular college and I can't imagine (even as a woman) feeling unsafe walking back to my dorm. I have mildly researched this case but upon first review it seems that drowning is definitely not a reasonable explanation. According to my colleague who just graduated from that university, the common theory among students is that he was taken when he was crossing the Stumpf Lake footpath on the bridge. Looking at Google Earth, it would be nearly impossible to fall into the water with the height of the ledge. Also they dragged the lake extensively and had 118 National Guard troops searching the surrounding areas. Does anyone know when exactly he was last seen, other than at Metton Court? I find the abbey/sexual abuse angle to be highly unlikely, as whomever was responsible would have had to wait outside at night in the winter in Minnesota for the victim to come along. And being a Minnesotan now, I can tell you that you would have to be HIGHLY motivated to wait outside for than five minutes. Also, being the same age as Josh, I would doubt that in 2002 a 20 yr-old student at a small private religious college would garner much attention for his essay criticizing the church and the abbey, at least not enough to make himself a target. I believe that Josh was either taken from the bridge over Stumpf Lake on his way home by someone he knew (maybe under the pretense of getting a ride home, as he did not have his glasses or a jacket), a random stranger who saw an opportunity, or he was the victim of a hit and run and someone panicked. His friends say that he wasn't inebriated, but I'm not sure how accurate that is, as we all behave uniquely under the influence. If it was a stranger abduction, it seems highly risky for someone to attempt to take a 6 ft tall 20 yr-old adult male against his will, and for what purpose? He didn't have his wallet, and I'm unclear if he even had a phone (I didn't have a phone in 2002). The likelihood of getting this in front of a Payne Lindsay or a Billy Jensen or any other podcast is slim to none. Unfortunately a college-age white male who may or may not have been drinking and has had his fate ruled as drowning by law enforcement doesn't have the same appeal as a missing, white and pretty beauty queen or a small child playing in their front yard. News articles mention that there were nine people at the card game but police only interviewed eight. What happened to the ninth attendee? What major events were happening in St. Joe or Anoka that may have attracted strangers? What would bring someone down that route at that time of night if they WEREN'T a student? I am anxious (and fairly determined) to do as much as I can on this case (which may end up to be not a lot based on lack of evidence) but I would greatly welcome some healthy discourse in an effort to find some answers. I feel strangely attached to this case and I believe that "citizen detectives" can accomplish a lot now, especially with social media and being locked down during a pandemic. Again, I am just getting into this case, so any corrections or suggestions are most welcome.

Welcome, excellent points, thanks for making them!

 

[Giverny70]

I have compiled some research on this case and would be most appreciative if one of you could take a look and let me know your thoughts. I have contacted a former classmate of Joshua's via LinkedIn and she is willing to talk to me regarding this case. I'm not sure where that will lead but it's a start. I also contacted the Guimond family via their FindJoshua.com website to ensure that they were okay with me speaking to acquaintances of Joshua's, and I sent their attorney as of 2019 a similar message to get his feedback as well. If anyone has any information that I need to know prior to proceeding with additional research please respond; I also welcome corrections to any of the data I have compiled.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Because there hasn't been a significant advancement in this case since the night Josh went missing, I hold onto the speculation that Josh is beneath water. Its possible he went towards the water to quickly relieve himself or even collect himself from being intoxicated and passed out or fell. Once he's in the water it is very much harder to find him. Its great luck whenever a body is recovered from water.

And there is other investigating to do especially with his roomate and friends.

 

[DarkJodo]

I also welcome corrections to any of the data I have compiled.

I can respond to a few points in your research that is already public knowledge:

-A witness has reported that a person matching Joshua's description was walking the footpaths in back of Metten Court. This is also the route that the group traveled to the party.

-The footpaths were there in 2002, but it was much darker. Since Joshua's disappearance, SJU has added much more light posts and other security measures in that specific area.

-I think the significance of the runner is that they might have witnessed something without realizing it, not that the runner is a suspect themselves.

-Friends estimated that Josh had about 10 beers in him over a course of 5 hours by the time he left. Repeated account echoed that he was not inebriated at the time.

-Last sighting of a matching description of Joshua was behind Metten court. He was wearing a gray hoodie, jeans and wristwatch.

-SCSO has talked so everyone at the party, but it took several months for them to finally come around and question them.

-Stumpf lake was never drained. Fully or partially.

Hope this helps!

 

[Giverny70]

I can respond to a few points in your research that is already public knowledge:

-A witness has reported that a person matching Joshua's description was walking the footpaths in back of Metten Court. This is also the route that the group traveled to the party.

-The footpaths were there in 2002, but it was much darker. Since Joshua's disappearance, SJU has added much more light posts and other security measures in that specific area.

-I think the significance of the runner is that they might have witnessed something without realizing it, not that the runner is a suspect themselves.

-Friends estimated that Josh had about 10 beers in him over a course of 5 hours by the time he left. Repeated account echoed that he was not inebriated at the time.

-Last sighting of a matching description of Joshua was behind Metten court. He was wearing a gray hoodie, jeans and wristwatch.

-SCSO has talked so everyone at the party, but it took several months for them to finally come around and question them.

-Stumpf lake was never drained. Fully or partially.

Hope this helps!

This is extremely helpful, thank you! I kind of wondered why someone would take the Fruit Farm Rd. route when the footpaths are so much faster. So the lake's water level was never lowered? That was something that was listed on the FindJoshua.com website as being something SCSO did prior to dragging, I believe. I'm still confused why the DNR and SCSO wouldn't make every effort possible to find a body in the lake when the most likely explanation was drowning. I'm sure if he were a child they would have done it, but who knows. The tree line by the lake near the footpaths looks pretty thick, even if the foliage would have been reduced in November. Something I want to ask his classmates is how easy it would be to fall in the water at that point, even if completely intoxicated.

 

[Giverny70]

Because there hasn't been a significant advancement in this case since the night Josh went missing, I hold onto the speculation that Josh is beneath water. Its possible he went towards the water to quickly relieve himself or even collect himself from being intoxicated and passed out or fell. Once he's in the water it is very much harder to find him. Its great luck whenever a body is recovered from water.

And there is other investigating to do especially with his roomate and friends.

I agree with other investigating needing to be done into his roommate and his friends; as to the lake theory, I do agree it's the most likely scenario but I have reached out to a professor of forensics at St. Cloud State to see what he thinks about a body sinking in the lake in November in Minnesota. I'll admit I'm not familiar enough with the scientific aspects of body recovery in lakes, but I do think it would be valuable to get an expert's opinion.

 

[Giverny70]

One other point I just thought of; the day after his disappearance was a Sunday, and at a Catholic university students would be walking those footpaths and the bridge on St. John's Road to get to the chapel for services. I'm wondering what circumstances would have to be present that would make his body invisible to passersby. I have posed this question as well to the forensic professor at SCS (entirely unsure if I'll get a response). I understand that others in this forum have offered scientific explanations for a body sinking, but I'd like more information on this lake specifically, and particularly at that time of year.

 

[DarkJodo]

One other point I just thought of; the day after his disappearance was a Sunday, and at a Catholic university students would be walking those footpaths and the bridge on St. John's Road to get to the chapel for services. I'm wondering what circumstances would have to be present that would make his body invisible to passersby. I have posed this question as well to the forensic professor at SCS (entirely unsure if I'll get a response). I understand that others in this forum have offered scientific explanations for a body sinking, but I'd like more information on this lake specifically, and particularly at that time of year.

You would be surprised how few students would actually attend service, even at a Catholic university. It was not required by students to attend.

 

[Sasquatch321]

"Friends estimated that Josh had about 10 beers in him over a course of 5 hours by the time he left. Repeated account echoed that he was not inebriated at the time."

That is a serious issue when you're alone and walking without appropriate clothing for the weather. In fact under that kind of intoxication he could have been walking aimlessly and this is why we haven't found him.

 

[Giverny70]

"Friends estimated that Josh had about 10 beers in him over a course of 5 hours by the time he left. Repeated account echoed that he was not inebriated at the time."

That is a serious issue when you're alone and walking without appropriate clothing for the weather. In fact under that kind of intoxication he could have been walking aimlessly and this is why we haven't found him.

So do you think there's any possibility he may NOT be in the water but out in the more heavily wooded area? From the searches you would think they would have found him if he was on land somewhere around campus. Obviously the most likely scenario is that he's in the water but for my own peace of mind I'd like to find out more about how exactly a body disappears in the water and remains hidden, despite searches and divers, etc. I also need to visit Stumpf Lake b/c I honestly have no idea what that habitat looks like.

 

[dotr]

Maybe this couple should be asked...lengthy article with pics. rbbm.
Bring up the bodies: the retired couple who find drowning victims
16 Jan 2020
''The Ralstons, a married couple from rural Idaho, had been scientists until the late 1980s, when they began helping out on local search and rescue missions. By the winter of 2002, they had volunteered on more than a dozen searches for victims of drowning across the US, and had developed an uncanny ability to find bodies''

''Typically, a corpse descends through water with its chest facing the surface. When the feet hit the bottom, the knees buckle and the body spills on to its back, arms outstretched. That is the shape the Ralstons usually look for with their sonar.''

''The Ralstons are now in their 70s and spend most of every year travelling to search sites or on the water, looking for bodies. They have clocked more than 31,000 miles on their motorhome in a single year. In almost two decades of searching, they have found 120 victims of drowning in lakes and rivers across the US and Canada. They are considered among the best underwater search and recovery specialists in North America, and have worked for agencies from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to Nasa (hunting for the wreckage of the space shuttle Columbia, which disintegrated on atmospheric entry in February 2003, killing all seven crew members). They have helped solve crimes and generations-old mysteries.


When the Ralstons’ home phone rings with a search request, though, it is usually a family member of a missing person – someone reaching out after an official search has been called off. By the time the Ralstons arrive at the scene of a disappearance, no one expects the missing person to be found alive. What Gene and Sandy offer is not the hope of rescue, but the solace of finality. They have spent years crisscrossing North America in the service of grief.''

 

[Giverny70]

I think it's worth looking into, great job finding this couple; the Wolf Creek case they mention in the article is actually in my hometown in northeastern Oregon. I'm going to see where in rural Idaho they are from because I grew up near the Idaho border and have a ton of family in nearby rural areas. Maybe one of them knows them and we can reach out that way!

 

[Giverny70]

Wow they're from Kuna and Gene grew up in Fruitland which is 40 mins from my hometown. My aunt was a teacher there for over 30 years, I'm almost sure she'll know them.

 

[Giverny70]

I'm going to email them (or call if there's a number) and see if they'd even be open to traveling here. Obviously would want to check with Josh's family before making any kind of commitment. Hopefully my Oregon/Idaho connection will help, waiting for my aunt to let me know if she knows them.

 

[human]

I'm going to email them (or call if there's a number) and see if they'd even be open to traveling here. Obviously would want to check with Josh's family before making any kind of commitment. Hopefully my Oregon/Idaho connection will help, waiting for my aunt to let me know if she knows them.

how do they afford to do it?

 

[Sasquatch321]

I'm going to email them (or call if there's a number) and see if they'd even be open to traveling here. Obviously would want to check with Josh's family before making any kind of commitment. Hopefully my Oregon/Idaho connection will help, waiting for my aunt to let me know if she knows them.

This would be the best thing this case has seen in 18 years.

 

[Sasquatch321]

So do you think there's any possibility he may NOT be in the water but out in the more heavily wooded area? From the searches you would think they would have found him if he was on land somewhere around campus. Obviously the most likely scenario is that he's in the water but for my own peace of mind I'd like to find out more about how exactly a body disappears in the water and remains hidden, despite searches and divers, etc. I also need to visit Stumpf Lake b/c I honestly have no idea what that habitat looks like.

Everything about the immediate area Josh was walking is dense with forest, water, and steep hills.