MN - Philando Castile, 32, shot by police officer, 6 July 2016 #1

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ohreally

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By the same token, imo, a bad shoot by a LEO is on the LEO. Looking forward to the day when finding ways for bad cops to not be bad cops is a reality. It has to be acknowledged first - a hurdle in itself right now.
I have no problem acknowledging there are bad cops. There is no profession exempt from having bad people in it. I just don't think that just because a police officer shoots someone they should be labled a bad cop. I don't believe a video after the fact is evidence of a bad cop. Once the evidence comes out I will decide if I think he is a bad cop.
From everything I have read I don't feel Castlile is a bad person. I think he is loved by many. We just don't know the facts to know if the cop, Castile or a perfect storm is at fault.
 

Tillicum

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WCCO obtained a copy of Yanez’s training summary. This year, he completed active shooter, use of force and de-escalation training — 23 hours in total.

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“It looks really bad, but you’re only getting the perspective of the person shooting the film,” she said. “That’s very important to wait for the whole perspective before we make any judgment.”

more at link http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/07/13/st-anthony-police-training/
 

ohreally

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Should sporting events be shut down because some people choose to burn down cars? How about should marathons be shut down because tons of trash are left along the route and people defecate and pee in people's yards?
I am not talking about trash. I am talking about burning buildings. Yes, if the same team, same marathon and such endangers others lives they should be shut down and major property damage. There are many times that events are cancelled because of security concerns and that is because of single event concerns. An example is the Boston marathon happened one time. it is tragic what happened. It is not something that happens many times.
I am not saying that I think BLM should give up thier protests. I just think that if they truly support non violent protests that they need to walk away from that protest when it becomes violent.
 

Migmuu

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Not talking about protests. Talking about people who do violence. Why do some who cause damage in the black community become the example whereas white people such as McVeigh are representative of only a small group of violent whites?

Because some people are racist and their first reaction is to search for any excuse to justify the murder of a black person by a police officer. Philando Castile didn't have a criminal record, so now people are bringing up his driving record as if being a bad driver is an executable offense.

We have the video. There is no dispute that the cop shot a man who posed no threat and then let him bleed out in his carseat for minutes without so much as rendering first aid, even though the "threat" had been "neutralized". Even people who usually defend the police find this particular case indefensible, because there is no defense... unless you already harbor negative feelings about black people and/or you're some barbarian who thinks people who commit minor traffic offenses deserve to be shot to death.

Maybe what I'm about to say is controversial, but you know what, riots don't form in a vacuum. These riots are the culmination of DECADES of the black community being beat down again and again by the police who are theoretically supposed to protect them; trying the legal route dozens of times but the cops who murdered their unarmed men, women and children always get scot-free; and they're now at the point where they're desperate and feel they have no other recourse than to riot. These riots should be condemned, but so should the police officers who killed innocent people and the system that let them get away with it.
 

perfectingpink

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For some reason my post is not responding to the right post. I am responding to human's post 723
You missed my point. Law enforcement is going into community to make them better other than patrolling. I have not read anything showing BLM going into communities and working on making things better other than doing protests. Isn't there other ways they can work within the communities that may work better than just protesting?
It takes both sides to find better ways to work on a problem.

This is what is happening in Wichita, KS.

https://www.facebook.com/KAKETV/posts/10154366382978979
 

BayouBelle_LA

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Adding to my above post. It is debatable if some BLM leaders promote violence or not, but going with the belief that they are saying all protests should be non violent It isn't working. Many times we are seeing violent groups joining in the protests. I think some responsibility needs to go back on the organizers when there is a history of violent groups joining them. I don't have the solution and I believe in thier right to peacefully protest. I just think when a group knows there is a good chance thier protests will bring violence and destruction it might be time to find another way to get bring awareness to thier cause.

Some BLM leaders do promote violence. I've seen live streams where that has happened. Next time there is a heated protest I encourage you to watch live through the eyes of BLM rather than the media.

One example is of the white female pastor in Ferguson who opened her church as a safe haven for BLM. She was preaching love and unity from the pulpit in the light of day but under the cover of darkness she was pure evil. I watched live as the BLM shut down traffic and wouldn't let cars through. A young white man got out of his car and was surrounded by the group of protesters. He was saying he just needed to get home when someone sucker punched him. The man turns to run and you see the 'pastor' yell "get him, don't let him go" and then she's running behind the mob. I don't think I can link the video but it's not hard to find.

So yes, some so called leaders call for peace while encouraging violence.
 

galiuro

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Because some people are racist and their first reaction is to search for any excuse to justify the murder of a black person by a police officer. Philando Castile didn't have a criminal record, so now people are bringing up his driving record as if being a bad driver is an executable offense.

We have the video. There is no dispute that the cop shot an unarmed man who posed no threat and then let him bleed out in his carseat for minutes without so much as rendering first aid, even though the "threat" had been "neutralized". Even people who usually defend the police find this particular case indefensible, because there is no defense... unless you already harbor negative feelings about black people and/or you're some barbarian who thinks people who commit minor traffic offenses deserve to be shot to death.

Maybe what I'm about to say is controversial, but you know what, riots don't form in a vacuum. These riots are the culmination of DECADES of the black community being beat down again and again by the police who are theoretically supposed to protect them; trying the legal route dozens of times but the cops who murdered their unarmed men, women and children always get scot-free; and they're now at the point where they're desperate and feel they have no other recourse than to riot. These riots should be condemned, but so should the police officers who killed innocent people and the system that let them get away with it.

That's right, nothing forms in a vacuum...black men more likely to commit crimes, cops are more likely to stop them. Chicken, egg, etc...

Been 'profiled' myself by cops while driving a car that looks like it is speeding standing still (not my car, a friend's). I obey the law, don't get stopped. My son has been pulled over by a cop for 'beep beeping his little horn', yep that cop was a bleep...but hey he did exactly as the cop instructed, got a stupid lecture from him and we went on our way...been stopped for expired tags, had the sticker in the glove box, forgot to put it on the plate...again, obey the law, obey the cop's instructions, nothing bad happens.
 

bluesneakers

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Not talking about protests. Talking about people who do violence. Why do some who cause damage in the black community become the example whereas white people such as McVeigh are representative of only a small group of violent whites?

Plenty of people already believe black people are violent so the riots simply reinforce their prejudices. McVeigh and others like him are viewed from the opposite direction - the "white people are violent" belief isn't there so they become anomalies.

It's like when people say "Stereotypes exist for a reason" because they want to justify their own prejudices about another group of people. Stereotypes exist because people are lazy and afraid.
 

Migmuu

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That's right, nothing forms in a vacuum...black men more likely to commit crimes, cops are more likely to stop them. Chicken, egg, etc...

Been 'profiled' myself by cops while driving a car that looks like it is speeding standing still (not my car, a friend's). I obey the law, don't get stopped. My son has been pulled over by a cop for 'beep beeping his little horn', yep that cop was a bleep...but hey he did exactly as the cop instructed, got a stupid lecture from him and we went on our way...been stopped for expired tags, had the sticker in the glove box, forgot to put it on the plate...again, obey the law, obey the cop's instructions, nothing bad happens.

But Castile DID obey the law, he DID obey the cop's instructions, and he STILL got shot. He warned the cop ahead of time that he had a CCW permit and had his gun on him, just as he was supposed to. The cop asked to see his license. When Castile reached for his wallet to retrieve said license, he was shot four times.

And even if Castile was being belligerent, since when did not following the police's instructions become an executable offense? That's something you'd expect in some authoritarian hell-hole of a nation, not a country that bills itself as the "land of the free".

I'm glad your encounters with the police have been positive, but not everybody has had that same experience.
 

drjones

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"But Castile DID obey the law, he DID obey the cop's instructions"

what he did and did not do is unclear at this point, all we have are statements from the officer and the girlfriend.

hopefully the dashcam can provide some useful evidence, otherwise we will most likely be left with conflicting statements and we will simply have to decide who to believe.
 

galiuro

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But Castile DID obey the law, he DID obey the cop's instructions, and he STILL got shot. He warned the cop ahead of time that he had a CCW permit and had his gun on him, just as he was supposed to. The cop asked to see his license. When Castile reached for his wallet to retrieve said license, he was shot four times.

And even if Castile was being belligerent, since when did not following the police's instructions become an executable offense? That's something you'd expect in some authoritarian hell-hole of a nation, not a country that bills itself as the "land of the free".

I'm glad your encounters with the police have been positive, but not everybody has had that same experience.

I do not think we know that he did indeed obey the cop's instructions.
 

galiuro

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But Castile DID obey the law, he DID obey the cop's instructions, and he STILL got shot. He warned the cop ahead of time that he had a CCW permit and had his gun on him, just as he was supposed to. The cop asked to see his license. When Castile reached for his wallet to retrieve said license, he was shot four times.

And even if Castile was being belligerent, since when did not following the police's instructions become an executable offense? That's something you'd expect in some authoritarian hell-hole of a nation, not a country that bills itself as the "land of the free".

I'm glad your encounters with the police have been positive, but not everybody has had that same experience.

And my point wasn't that all my encounters with the cops were 'positive'. They weren't..I have been issued tickets. Because hey I was breaking the law...that is the point.
 

Gardenista

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But Castile DID obey the law, he DID obey the cop's instructions, and he STILL got shot. He warned the cop ahead of time that he had a CCW permit and had his gun on him, just as he was supposed to. The cop asked to see his license. When Castile reached for his wallet to retrieve said license, he was shot four times.

And even if Castile was being belligerent, since when did not following the police's instructions become an executable offense? That's something you'd expect in some authoritarian hell-hole of a nation, not a country that bills itself as the "land of the free".

I'm glad your encounters with the police have been positive, but not everybody has had that same experience.

No, he did not follow the officer's instructions. He was told not to move and he did it anyway. Diamond Lavish tells us that in her video.
 

bluesneakers

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But Castile DID obey the law, he DID obey the cop's instructions, and he STILL got shot. He warned the cop ahead of time that he had a CCW permit and had his gun on him, just as he was supposed to. The cop asked to see his license. When Castile reached for his wallet to retrieve said license, he was shot four times.

And even if Castile was being belligerent, since when did not following the police's instructions become an executable offense? That's something you'd expect in some authoritarian hell-hole of a nation, not a country that bills itself as the "land of the free".

I'm glad your encounters with the police have been positive, but not everybody has had that same experience.

There are threads filled with examples of citizens who were unarmed and did nothing wrong but still ended up assaulted or dead. I can't make sense of the defense in those cases but apparently yes, the list of acceptable executable offenses is ever-growing.
 

human

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I do not think we know that he did indeed obey the cop's instructions.

Why would he not obey instructions?

There is the info that the officer thought Phil looked like a robbery suspect. Yet, protocol was not followed for a stop like that. We have heard the info from the police radio. We have had the protocol documented. So why was protocol not followed?
 

human

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And my point wasn't that all my encounters with the cops were 'positive'. They weren't..I have been issued tickets. Because hey I was breaking the law...that is the point.

Getting a ticket is hardly the same as the experiences people have had. Have you seen the video if what happened to the girl ridng her bike in a parking lot?
 

human

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No, he did not follow the officer's instructions. He was told not to move and he did it anyway. Diamond Lavish tells us that in her video.

I am assuming, maybe incorrectly, that he had a gun pointed at him. I wonder how people do with a gun pointed at them?
 

drjones

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Why would he not obey instructions?

There is the info that the officer thought Phil looked like a robbery suspect. Yet, protocol was not followed for a stop like that. We have heard the info from the police radio. We have had the protocol documented. So why was protocol not followed?

"Why would he not obey instructions?"

Why did Alton Sterling not obey instructions? Why did Dylan Noble not obey instructions?

"Yet, protocol was not followed for a stop like that."

people keep saying that but it is patently false, the officer has discretion depending on the exact circumstances.
 
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