MO MO - Four similar homicides on Indian Creek Trail in Kansas City Aug 2016 *arrest*

Discussion in 'Serial Killers' started by darkstar105, May 19, 2017.

  1. buckeye05

    buckeye05 Member

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    What is your basis for this? I really can't see how one could draw that conclusion. Also, of all the many, many serial murder cases I have researched, I can only think of one pair of killers that were aware of one another yet committed their crimes independently in the same area. (Derrick Todd Lee/Sean Gillis).

    Again, I can't come up with a single shred of evidence to support the quoted theory.
     


  2. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Similarities among cases do not count as evidence. A careful investigator will not jump to conclusions without real hard evidence, and won't say yes or no if the answer is we don't know.
     
  3. BamiesFan

    BamiesFan Member

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    It is a very long trail that runs close to some very crime ridden parts of town. Higher income people (often white) exercise recreationally more than other demographics. So the victims are white. I would not go on that trail at 103rd and Holmes unless I was packing.. and if I feel I need to pack.. I probably would not go. I would research Darby a little more. That one seems like a hit. That food and bev business gets rough and tough.
     
  4. BamiesFan

    BamiesFan Member

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    Police depts are very solid on a day to day rank and file basis... but when high profile things happen the PD gets very very political and into a cover your rear mode. KCPD is NOT having a good year. It is the worst I have ever scene on spiking murder and ineffective responses fron PD.
     
  5. VictoriaH

    VictoriaH New Member

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  6. watergirl62

    watergirl62 .

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    I was thinking not that far but who knows right now what is connected and what is not... So maybe possibly.
    The 53rd and Bales incident? Um no. Not even when I lived there.
    I went to the school across the creek from your complex once upon a time. Kachina pride yeah.
     
  7. Scout87

    Scout87 Justice for Jessica and Kara

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    This is the worst I've seen it in the KC area as well. I think that KC is on par with St.Louis and Chicago for becoming the murder capital of the US. What a title to have. :facepalm: And like you said, KCPD is definitely not having a good year at all. I think whoever helps them with PR needs to go. They need to get their story straight across the board, instead of having a different line spewed out by a different officer every time they update, or sometimes even in the same broadcast or article. This is not the first case this year to have this problem, and I'm certain it won't be the last. They look messy and disorganized, which makes the idea of a serial killer all the more scary.
     
  8. VictoriaH

    VictoriaH New Member

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    I'm sorry I guess I'm confused, are you talking to me or margarita25?
     
  9. Nick_1

    Nick_1 Verified Former Law Enforcement Data Analyst

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    Brother (Or perhaps Sister?) "Scout87,"

    Astute observations, my friend. Let's be clear, I am all for the public requesting clear and concise information from law enforcement. Specifically, with regards to potential serial offenders, this is especially true. In the hours after an active killer incident such as Aurora, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech (years ago), information is nearly always conflicting. This is due to a myriad of factors such as the necessity to verify the suspect is neutralized, the number of patients hospitalized or deceased, potential other suspects and so forth. Timely, accurate information is not always available in those kinds of cases. On these 4 cases as you mentioned, it should be. I agree.

    I asked the members of this forum if we can say conclusively that the first four are connected. You turned this question back over to me, thus I'll do my best to answer. No, I can not conclusively say the first four are connected. The only facts I have are those available in the various media reports. I can opine on this information; quite simply, I can analyze the same things you all know.

    As a good rule of thumb, analyze the newest statements from law enforcement in possible serial cases. Ideally, commanding officers or public information officers have a good understanding of these cases. In turn, they can present basic and consistent information that would say something to the effect of, " I do not have that information at this time." Yes, that is frustrating. If a true serial offender has perpetrated these crimes a press conference would be most beneficial, I believe. The press conference could include members of the investigative team and law enforcement leaders. If it is unclear whether these first four crimes are connected, a press conference or public statement saying, "We are actively exploring any possible connection between these cases," would suffice in my mind. That way, information could be presented that keeps the public informed. A fine line exists between maintaining the investigation's integrity and keeping the citizen's up to date.

    To analyze the aforementioned statements with respect to this case, I would assert that it's possible that law enforcement truly doesn't know if they are connected. The first occurred in August of 2016. If the body was discovered along the trail and no witnesses were present the case could have easily stalled. The other two only occurred over the past couple of months. Looking back, it was probably realized that the victim's in each case were similar. Yet another victim matching this type was discovered, but it was outside of this first geographic area. The dots may just now be getting connected, so to speak.

    With everything I have read, it's a pull between two types of offenders or completely unrelated. Those that commit crimes in a serial manner either do so over a long period of time or a short period of time. In this situation, it would appear both are present. Methodical versus thrill. On the other hand, they could all be unrelated. Neither can be determined without cause of death and individual case information. That information should be law enforcement knowledge only until it is suspected with a high degree of confidence that the cases are connected. The smaller the circle, the more likely only the true offender knows what occurred.

    On the most recent case, information can't be deduced that quickly, usually. The FBI's involvement is likely for investigative resources and may be a signal of well; mixed signals thus far. As I stated above, law enforcement may too be confused by evidence that would suggest they are all unrelated. On the contrary, evidence may also be present that would suggest they are all connected. FBI personnel can provide expertise and resources that may clarify this.

    On your last point, for that matter your whole post, I agree with the need for greater transparency. It could be said, "based on the information developed at this time, we are investigating the possibility that these cases are connected." That way if they don't suspect or have evidence that suggests a connection the public can at least know they are inquiring on the possibility of it.

    Great thought provoking post. I'll do my best to answer any questions you all ask.

    - Nick
     
  10. Nick_1

    Nick_1 Verified Former Law Enforcement Data Analyst

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    Northern Colorado's serial shooter back in 2015 is still some (4 letter word starting with F)ing bizarre (4 letter word starting with S). Those were all linked forensically from what I know. The victim type, suspect vehicle, time of day and geographic location could be described as erratic, at best. Despite this, forensic evidence all proved them to be connected. I mean how those cases are all connected makes nooooo sense. That's what we call a, "mystery."
     
  11. Nick_1

    Nick_1 Verified Former Law Enforcement Data Analyst

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    Yeah, I wrote about this above. Might be worth a read.
     
  12. Nick_1

    Nick_1 Verified Former Law Enforcement Data Analyst

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    Yeah, the second statement addressing cause and effect just can't be said at all yet. I hope the notion you're asserting is posed as a question, not a statement.
     
  13. darkstar105

    darkstar105 Active Member

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    Coach's is extremely successful, from way back, and extremely popular. It would be the last bar in all of KC I would expect for any funny goings-on to be associated with it. It had a very loyal following. Not once in my 33 years in KC have I heard of anything sketchy going on in or near or associated with Coach's. And Darby was a give-you-the-shirt-off-his-back, started-bicycle-charity-races sort. When he was shot, everyone who knew him said he would have simply given a robber money. I am not sure any of these dog-walkers were carrying money (I don't carry money when I go for a recreational walk, and have told my husband if we get robbed we're handing over the money and phones lickety-split) but also, police said there was no sign of a struggle in Darby's case. I'll be really surprised if anyone had a grudge against any of these men, from what I have heard about them.
     
  14. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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    As stated, it's my guess.
     
  15. darkstar105

    darkstar105 Active Member

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    Not sure, but I think the problem KC is having with crime right now is due to prison overcrowding and perps knowing they will get off easy, and witnesses refusing to come forward/testify. Not police necessarily.
     
  16. Hatfield

    Hatfield Well-Known Member

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    JMO
    This is scary and way too coincidental to me that 3 people had dogs with them when killed. If I read things right.

    Here is what I cannot understand. If even 2 of the victims were shot then surely LE could recover the bullets to see if the bullets were fired from the same weapon so long as enough of the bullet remained intact to provide determination of the type of bullet.

    So they could at least determine whether a same caliber gun was being used and maybe even prove the exact same gun was used if enough markings on the bullet was present.

    So I struggle why they cannot say at least 2 or more were related or not.

    If peoples safety comes into play then that should be the main focus and if LE knows 2 or more are related then they should inform the public IMO. Withholding that information could put lives in jeapordy.

    Im not sure if 2 or more were even shot so I need to read more about this but at least one was shot from what I gathered.

    All scary nonetheless. Stay safe for those in the area.
     
  17. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Quite possible also that they are still waiting for lab results, depending on what the current backlog is.

    Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
     
  18. crimenerd

    crimenerd New Member

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  19. BamiesFan

    BamiesFan Member

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    I have only heard good things about him too. I have met him once. But no one on the outside really knows how well a place is doing. There is plenty of competition out there. I have heard that the slaying was brutal and very overdone. In my mind I just cannot rule out a hit with a motive.
     
  20. crimenerd

    crimenerd New Member

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