MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #12

[reedus23]

Does death eradicate ones privacy rights ?? IE juv record?

You quoted me but I wasn't talking about privacy rights so I'm not sure if that was intended or not. But since you did, I'll answer....I don't know. I absolutely have no clue when it comes to juvenile records. Was going to speculate about privacy rights with regard to medical records but realized I don't even know that answer with any certainty.

 

[reedus23]

Good night all. Thanks for the really good discourse this evening.

Likewise. Calling it a night.

 

[EvilSoup]

Something to add to the "Why would MB punch-tussle-charge Ofc W?" file:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/25/u...ast-weeks-grappling-with-lifes-mysteries.html

"Still, some of Mr. Brown’s closest confidants were family members. Mr. Brown’s uncle Bernard Ewing remembers talking to his nephew about how to interact with police officers. “I let him know like, if the police ever get on you, I don’t care what you doing, give it up,” Mr. Ewing said. “Because if you do one wrong move, they’ll shoot you. They’ll kill you.”

Or, in my case, squeeze your breasts for running a red light.

But since I was guilty of a traffic violation, I deserved whatever a LEO decided to give me. I did not have proper respect for his position as my superior. So my body was the price I was required to pay. Although I still had to pay the ticket. And I was in college and my parents believed the cops, not me, their daughter. So I had no backup.

I will say, the sexual assault (and yes it WAS) did the trick! I have never had another traffic violation. And all it took was my dignity and sense of self. So yay. I learned up my lesson good. I never again spoke up against men who crossed lines without my consent, and also I now do whatever LE tells me to do.

But at least I am alive and free. Sort of. Except that I feel like I never should speak up when I feel sexually put-upon. Because part of me still feels like I deserve it. After 20 years. I worry for my own daughter. I wish I could tell her to go with her gut and NOT obey someone just because they wear a badge. But I am still so frightened by my experience. She will likely end up a victim like me. And I feel ashamed. Yet, hopefully she will not be shot or molested. I guess that is better than being dead.

Is this really the mentality we want? I know I wish I could move past it. But the reality is that people in authority often abuse that trust, and preaching that "if you don't obey LE, no matter what, you deserve what happens to you" is just wrong, and so very damaging.

IMO and in my EXPERIENCE.

 

[bettybaby00]

Judge Alex on the Don Lemon CNN panel is being the voice of reason. Well Done, imo. He is talking Sonny H. down from a ledge, where she tries to say the audio tape and the 5 witnesses PROVE this was a murder.

Judge Alex, an ex cop, said there are other witnesses which will corroborate the officers side. She says snarkily, " Not that I have heard yet."

And he calmly explains that the police will not want to release their side of the story until after the investigation/grand Jury and perhaps trial, BECAUSE WITNESSES WILL COME OUT OF THE WOODWORK WITH TAILORED TESTIMONY to the officers facts. :yes:

Sonny H. makes me cringe!

 

[Frydaddy]

I don't know how to carry over posts from the previous threads but did want to comment on a couple of things and carry over a portion of the discussion.

First, Irish-Eyes, I thanked and wanted to thank you again for a post on the last page about what law officers go through and do.

Second, you had asked a question about what report, if I'm understanding the one you're asking about, it's here, on page 15, close to the last entry at 18:54:26 saying they still haven't found anyone that matches the description.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/pa...rtment-incident-report-on-aug-9-robbery/1256/

Finally, katydid, you posed a good question to me about DW getting out of his vehicle and closing the distance. My point is, to determine justification IMO, the key factor is what MB was doing when he was 35 feet or whatever distance it was from the vehicle. DW may very well have closed the distance, and I suspect he did. But as I see it, what is important is what was MB doing while he closed that distance. Was he surrendering himself while DW closed the distance or was he charging while DW closed the distance.

Please read last paragraph on bottom of page 8 in your link, read event report on bottom of page 16, and even report on page 19. Should clarify the 18:54 deal.

Officer who dealt with robbery went to scene of shooting to verify identity of Brown and Johnson (page 8). I would guess this occurred at 12:09:48, where notes were added (page 16). I would also guess that the RPT notification was the adding of officer notes before his car was cleared, as it seems all the units were clearing around the same time (page 19). In other words, this is similar to medical transcription where people add notes for the record to make sure all reports are entered. So, no mistake, no long delay, just procedure.

 

[Muffet]

I think LE knows how many rounds were fired that day. It should be easy to quickly rule out that audio if the count is not correct. I also believe that some of these "witnesses" think that just because the FBI has interviewed that they have the "smoking gun" or "game changer" evidence. The interview itself is no more than that, it does not validate any information given. I'm sure the FBI has heard some real doozies by now.

JMO's

IA. Trying to make that tape into a bombshell game-changer was so ridiculous I actually got tired of the whole thing enough to get some things done. :lol:

Frankly, even though I don't think it matters if he was shot from the back if he was running from a felony, I can see the division/pause placement of shots could help support what I was saying yesterday about all the shots being on the right arm meaning there was no graze on that arm from the back, then a turn-around and more shots to the very same arm. (opposite side from OW's view)

I tend to think the pause was between the shots to the arm and the final two to the head.
And the speed demonstrates to people that those last two were pretty much "pop pop". Not "pop, check, ah, he's going down, but I'll pop him again anyway."

Whatever, I'm waiting on the first autopsy for real information. Until then, her saying "from the front" and not just "to the front" is enough for now, imo.

 

[aa9511]

Harvard law professor on CNN earlier said that he thinks there should be criminal case against Officer Wilson.

 

[Apollo]

Or, in my case, squeeze your breasts for running a red light.

But since I was guilty of a traffic violation, I deserved whatever a LEO decided to give me. I did not have proper respect for his position as my superior. So my body was the price I was required to pay. Although I still had to pay the ticket. And I was in college and my parents believed the cops, not me, their daughter. So I had no backup.

I will say, the sexual assault (and yes it WAS) did the trick! I have never had another traffic violation. And all it took was my dignity and sense of self. So yay. I learned up my lesson good. I never again spoke up against men who crossed lines without my consent, and also I now do whatever LE tells me to do.

But at least I am alive and free. Sort of. Except that I feel like I never should speak up when I feel sexually put-upon. Because part of me still feels like I deserve it. After 20 years. I worry for my own daughter. I wish I could tell her to go with her gut and NOT obey someone just because they wear a badge. But I am still so frightened by my experience. She will likely end up a victim like me. And I feel ashamed. Yet, hopefully she will not be shot or molested. I guess that is better than being dead.

Is this really the mentality we want? I know I wish I could move past it. But the reality is that people in authority often abuse that trust, and preaching that "if you don't obey LE, no matter what, you deserve what happens to you" is just wrong, and so very damaging.

IMO and in my EXPERIENCE.

((((((EvilSoup))))))) Sorry that happened to you. That's terrible!!!

 

[aa9511]

But she's so purty.....

 

[EvilSoup]

An officer only needs to state that he felt the perp was a danger to himself (the officer). They don't operate on the same level as a citizen by law. I think that is what gets people confused.

I keep reading that an "unarmed teenager" was shot by a police officer. Well, aren't all teenagers supposed to be unarmed? Second, a police officer is supposed to be armed and they will shoot so don't challenge them.

It really is that simple.

http://smartgunlaws.org/minimum-age-to-purchase-possess-firearms-policy-summary/

Legal age to own a handgun in MO is 18. So, although I agree that all teenagers OUGHT to be unarmed, the law says otherwise. Yay! (Sarcasm)

Whouda thunk MO would be as gun-totin' as my state? (TX).

 

[aa9511]

Or, in my case, squeeze your breasts for running a red light.

But since I was guilty of a traffic violation, I deserved whatever a LEO decided to give me. I did not have proper respect for his position as my superior. So my body was the price I was required to pay. Although I still had to pay the ticket. And I was in college and my parents believed the cops, not me, their daughter. So I had no backup.

I will say, the sexual assault (and yes it WAS) did the trick! I have never had another traffic violation. And all it took was my dignity and sense of self. So yay. I learned up my lesson good. I never again spoke up against men who crossed lines without my consent, and also I now do whatever LE tells me to do.

But at least I am alive and free. Sort of. Except that I feel like I never should speak up when I feel sexually put-upon. Because part of me still feels like I deserve it. After 20 years. I worry for my own daughter. I wish I could tell her to go with her gut and NOT obey someone just because they wear a badge. But I am still so frightened by my experience. She will likely end up a victim like me. And I feel ashamed. Yet, hopefully she will not be shot or molested. I guess that is better than being dead.

Is this really the mentality we want? I know I wish I could move past it. But the reality is that people in authority often abuse that trust, and preaching that "if you don't obey LE, no matter what, you deserve what happens to you" is just wrong, and so very damaging.

IMO and in my EXPERIENCE.

Omg, I'm so sorry you had to go through that experience. Hugs to you.

 

[Phoebeb]

What happened to the police investigation info the reporter (Perez?) from CNN had on Wolf B yesterday? Was there any new info or discussion today? I haven't heard anything tonight about that at all.

 

[CARIIS]

Pulled several statements sout of this last thread. Read it was really good piece, the doc that did the first autopsy was great she was honest about fraud guys she repulsed by him. If you have not read you will find it interesting , ALso little fatigued (!) posted last one but check out HER credentials - amazing she has been published often - that is huge! Really liked her honesty and lack of fear of calling him out and respecting a colleague that deserves IMO to be respected!

But Case claims that Baden was unaware of what she called Parcells’ “baggage.”

“Dr. Baden did not know about Parcells’ baggage or he would not have become associated with him,” Case told TheDC. “His association with Parcells is very unfortunate.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/21/st-louis-medical-examiner-slams-brown-family-hire/#ixzz3BYpIK2Q9
​

far as I know they are work product of an ongoing shooting investigation and not required to provide them. We must remember that Baden was hired and is working in a private sector capacity for the family. His autopsy was meant to dispute the first one. At least that was the vision of the family and attorneys IMO. But because Baden made it clear he would participate in no white wash Mr. Parcells, the unlicensed, unaccredited self proclaimed expert was brought in to assist with providing the spin needed.

ETA If MB was charged with some crime and on trial for something then I believe his attorneys would have a right to full disclosure eventually during discovery of those items. Right now, OW is not charged and if and when he is then the state or feds charged with prosecuting him would have those evidentiary items and OW's attorneys would be entitled to them. I Am Not A Lawyer but I cannot imaging the victim family being entitled to them under our system of justice.

 

[Amber29]

Harvard law professor on CNN earlier said that he thinks there should be criminal case against Officer Wilson.

Then a couple lawyers, one a Harvard grad on Fox News gave their view of how irresponsible it was of him to make a comment like that. Being it's too early in the case for anyone outside of the GJ to say such things, especially a professor at such a prestigious law school. He teaches law and should know how our system works and that we are still lacking most of the facts here.

 

[gramcracker]

can we even imagine how this would've been playing out if the strong arm vid had not been released?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Judge Alex Ferrer with Don Lemon, telling Sunny Hostin that it most assuredly is legal to shoot a fleeing felon (the felony being the assault on OW). Sunny: no, no, no, no. JAF: "I know the case you're referring to" (I didn't catch that) "and it is legal." many more no(s) from SH and then Lemon conveniently called time and da judge said "we will debate it another time"

DL is soooo puffed up about the shooting audio being a CNN exclusive
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

was DJ wearing the same clothes all day? before/after the shooting? just wondering

 

[SStarr33]

Harvard law professor on CNN earlier said that he thinks there should be criminal case against Officer Wilson.

Was it Obama's mentor, Ogletree?

 

[EvilSoup]

((((((EvilSoup))))))) Sorry that happened to you. That's terrible!!!

I appreciate that. But frankly, it isn't that unusual. A guy who graduated from my HS joined our small town PD after graduation. He got fired for making "inappropriate" traffic stops on attractive women and hitting them up for "dates". He was prob 23 at the time.

Yeah, so he is now (going by his FB acct) a veteran PO in a city way across the country. I guess his past record was never taken into account, although it is easily searchable via news reports and court records.

All this to say, please teach your children NOT to blindly trust some guy just because he wears a badge. Or a robe. Or a uniform. Teaching your children "respect" should include respect for themselves. If anyone tries to supersede that, then they are suspect, themselves. IMO.

 

[bwt42]

Harvard law professor on CNN earlier said that he thinks there should be criminal case against Officer Wilson.

If it was Charles Ogletree, he was the one on Chris Matthews show that said there was videos of MB being shot with his hands up.

 

[bwt42]

But she's so purty.....

No, shes sooooooo fine.

 

[Apollo]

I appreciate that. But frankly, it isn't that unusual. A guy who graduated from my HS joined our small town PD after graduation. He got fired for making "inappropriate" traffic stops on attractive women and hitting them up for "dates". He was prob 23 at the time.

Yeah, so he is now (going by his FB acct) a veteran PO in a city way across the country. I guess his past record was never taken into account, although it is easily searchable via news reports and court records.

All this to say, please teach your children NOT to blindly trust some guy just because he wears a badge. Or a robe. Or a uniform. Teaching your children "respect" should include respect for themselves. If anyone tries to supersede that, then they are suspect, themselves. IMO.

Good post. I totally agree.