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MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #15

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by Blue_Dolphin308, Aug 10, 2014.

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  1. Blue_Dolphin308

    Blue_Dolphin308 We can't help everyone, But everyone can help some

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    The fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager Saturday by a police officer in a St. Louis suburb came after a struggle for the officer’s gun, police officials said Sunday, in an explanation that met with outrage and skepticism in the largely African-American community.The killing of the youth, Michael Brown, 18, ignited protests on Saturday and Sunday in Ferguson, Mo., a working-class suburb of about 20,000 residents. Hundreds of people gathered at the scene of the shooting to question the police and to light candles for Mr. Brown, who was planning to begin college classes on Monday.
    Mr. Brown’s stepfather, Louis Head, held a cardboard sign that said, “Ferguson police just executed my unarmed son.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/us/police-say-mike-brown-was-killed-after-struggle-for-gun.html


    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...own-St-Louis&p=10861113&posted=1#post10861113

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-teen-Michael-Brown-2&p=10867195#post10867195

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  2. Kimster

    Kimster Former Member

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    :modstop:

    A couple of things:

    1) We are not going to allow links to blogs in this case without prior approval. And approvals will be tough to get.

    2) Posts directed at other posters rather than the case will earn a TO without explanation. If you have a problem with another member, use the alert feature and scroll on by OR use the ignore feature and keep it to yourself
     
  3. beach

    beach Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Please continue here. :)
     
  4. CHERIE.T

    CHERIE.T Former Member

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    from previous thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonya610 View Post

    That's how I see it too.
     
  5. popsicle

    popsicle faith hope love

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  6. Jacie Estes

    Jacie Estes Medical Marijuana Advocate

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  7. reedus23

    reedus23 New Member

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    bwt...I'm in and out through out the day. Regarding your post on the last page, I agree 100%. I have mentioned more than once that from my perspective, what is most important is what happened 35 feet away. I only use that as a point of reference because that apparently is where MB's body came to rest when the fatal shots were fired. Where OW was in relation to that point 35 feet away is absolutely one of the things that need to be considered. In other words, I wholeheartedly agree the distance between MB and OW are important at that point. There are a number of things that are important in that time frame and that is absolutely one of them.
     
  8. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    But 35 feet away from what? The police vehicle or OW? The recent witness, Brady put the officer about 3 feet away from MB during the final shots, didnt he?
     
  9. Frydaddy

    Frydaddy Former Member

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    Been waiting for someone to explain the 35' reference, I think someone needs a new tape measure if that is the alleged distance between Brown and Wilson's SUV.
     
  10. LambChop

    LambChop Former Member

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    I don't have a link but early on I believe the Chief said MB was within 20 foot of OW when OW fired his weapon. MB was 35 foot from the cruiser. DJ stated there were three cars parked at the curb and he ran behind the first one and MB kept running. I believe DJ said MB stopped at the third car. The average car is 15+ foot long and they probably were not bumper-to-bumper. Now I know if this were available you all would have had it up by now so if you find it, please post it for us to figure out. Thanks, Lambchop
     
  11. TheDuchess

    TheDuchess Well-Known Member

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    This is a great piece. Someone with clarity and good judgment needs to sit down in a quiet room with the Brown family and go through this with them thoroughly. In the business world, it is referred to as "managing expectations." In other words, I feel that many of those who are advising the Browns are giving them unreasonable expectations that they will prevail if they simply get enough people on their side, make enough noise, get enough people to feel sorry for them, etc... That is simply not the case.

    It is unreasonable to expect OW to be arrested or fired because they are blocking traffic or threatening civil disobedience. It is unreasonable to expect that the GJ is going to indict OW because of the protests. It is unreasonable to expect that in the end, they will be sitting in a death chamber watching OW being executed for the first degree murder of MB. Someone needs to calmly explain to them that if they truly want MB's death to have some meaning, there are many other reasonable ways to reach some satisfaction, but they need to have their expectations lowered to a reasonable standard.

    1.) They need to accept that the process is moving forward and that a GJ will decide the fate of whether or not OW will even be charged.
    2.) IF OW is charged with any crime at all, he will be given his due process like every other citizen and the state will need to prove the charges against OW beyond a reasonable doubt
    3.) It is highly unlikely that even IF OW is charged with ANY crimes, it will more than likely be something very minor, i.e. abuse of power, or perhaps an involuntary manslaughter at best
    4.) They need to understand that the GENERAL PUBLIC has an interest in siding with law enforcement. Most people, while perhaps in agreement that there are certainly cases of police brutality, etc...believe that the police protect us on a daily basis, and risk their lives for their communities.
    5.) They also must be made aware that any jury will see that MB has at least SOME level of fault in the incident. In order for it to be a clear cut case of police brutality, MB would have needed to be exactly what they said in their first go-round - an innocent, unarmed kid walking down the street minding his own business. Juries WILL take the strong armed robbery, the fact that he had stolen goods, the fact he was walking down the street, the fact that he didn't listen to the officers command to get out of the street. They will also take into account what injuries OW had and of course, any evidence, such as fingerprints, DNA, etc...of MB on that gun and on OW's person. There is MUCH more here than just reasonable doubt.
    6.) A federal prosecution is going to be highly unlikely, particularly, if they are looking at the same evidence as shown to the GJ. They are parallel investigations and they both will have the same set of facts in front of them. Eric Holder may want to help, but in the end, if they don't feel they can win the case, they will not pursue it.
    7.) A civil case would be their best bet for any recompense, but that too would be difficult. While the burden is more even, they would have more evidence than the defense would have to show MB's civil rights were violated. No easy task to do. I would put the odds at winning the case very low, but they may be able to get some kind of settlement if the police or OW decide to just make it go away.
    8.) Proving MB's race has anything to do with this is going to be a huge leap. From what I gather at this moment, no one has said OW called either MB or DJ any racial names. And even being able to prove racial bias of the police department as a whole won't help, because it would not matter if every single other Ferguson police officer was proven to be a racist, this case is about OW. And from what we know, he has absolutely no history of being a racist (I feel we would have heard it by now) and has a perfectly clean record. There really isn't anything legal about "guilt by association." And if anything, OW's is actually favored by the concept of "innocent by association" because most people will tend to side with the police.
    8.) Finally, if they REALLY want to make a difference, they can use this experience to help further the more general plight of the AA community. Lobby for changes to the police force. Raise awareness about voting. Help to educate youths about how to deal with the police. While they cannot ever get their son back, they can help to prevent this from happening to other young people out there, and not by blame, as much as by education.

    I hope someone can reach them. Right now, it is doubtful. They have surrounded themselves with race baiters who are truly using them for their own agendas. They are being set up to fail and being set up for major disappointment. I really hope that someone with a conscience can get through to them to help guide them through what is going to be a very difficult time.
     
  12. CHERIE.T

    CHERIE.T Former Member

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    From previous thread,
    post by ubcrazy2
    "I saw this article and it says two different donation sites and it gathered over 400k. Really curious about why it was shut down."


    Why indeed.
     
  13. Dana

    Dana New Member

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    ITA, did OW pursue MB after getting out of his SUV? Some of the witnesses claim yes (as per media thread). How far was OW from MB when MB was shot? None of us really know so I'm curious as to what the distance of 35 feet or 50 feet or 5 feet matters with the SUV. Certainly the SUV location is important as it was at the scene and an 'altercation' occurred, but after that point, it would matter how far OW was from MB more so than how far the SUV was from MB.
     
  14. CHERIE.T

    CHERIE.T Former Member

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  15. CHERIE.T

    CHERIE.T Former Member

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    previous thread--
    post by momrids6

    NO not do the RIGHT thing.
    Do what that group wants....
    The right thing would be acknowledging MB was a stealing, LEO ignoring 294 lb male who assaulted a cop and died because of his actions.
    this murder (*&U^Y&(^ bs is getting old.
     
  16. Tawny

    Tawny Bye

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    "Demands"?

    I'm sorry but that word is the worst word to use. Are these terrorist negotiations?

    If these demands aren't met... what then?
     
  17. reedus23

    reedus23 New Member

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    35 feet away from the vehicle. I have never said that OW was 35 feet from MB. My point has been and will be that what is important is what happened 35 feet from the vehicle. How far was OW from MB at that point? What were MB's actions at that point? What were OW's actions at that point? What do the witnesses on either side say they saw at that point? How fast was OW closing in on MB? How fast was MB closing in on OW?

    I would simply add that I use 35 feet from the vehicle because that is where it is reported that MB came to rest. Actual crime scene analysis may show it was 25 feet. May show it was 45 feet. I don't know. Crime scene analysis may show MB had traveled 55 feet from the vehicle and came back those 20 feet at OW. So when I say 35 feet it is for simplicities sake for the point away from the vehicle immediately leading up to the fatal shots. I think the stuff before that is still important for setting the context however.
     
  18. reedus23

    reedus23 New Member

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    Might be needed. That's what was reported and that's where the reference comes from. See my above post for a fuller explanation of what I mean when I say 35 feet.
     
  19. popsicle

    popsicle faith hope love

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  20. PaperDoll

    PaperDoll When I'm Silent, I make the most sense

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