Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by LambChop, Sep 17, 2014.
Please continue posting here....
The fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager Saturday by a police officer in a St. Louis suburb came after a struggle for the officers gun, police officials said Sunday, in an explanation that met with outrage and skepticism in the largely African-American community.The killing of the youth, Michael Brown, 18, ignited protests on Saturday and Sunday in Ferguson, Mo., a working-class suburb of about 20,000 residents. Hundreds of people gathered at the scene of the shooting to question the police and to light candles for Mr. Brown, who was planning to begin college classes on Monday.
Mr. Browns stepfather, Louis Head, held a cardboard sign that said, Ferguson police just executed my unarmed son.
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This line of thought never gets old, does it? <modsnip> Let's use Dorian Johnson as an example.
Counting his current child on the way, he will soon have three babies with three different baby mamas. That's two children for sure that have no live-in father figure. Unsure if Dorian had a job or not, but this guy is so concerned about nurturing his future son or daughter that he got over $2000 behind on his rent and according to some, may have finally been evicted. So there's another life beset with future roadblocks to success. Rather than be responsible, Dorian takes a love 'em and leave 'em approach. Rather than getting whatever job(s) are required to pay child support to give his other children a chance to thrive, Dorian smokes weed. The liberal social stance that "it's just sex-lol" or "it's just weed-no biggie" leads to "it's just poverty" and "it's just jail". Once in one of those two places, or both, who often gets the blame? Now, with regard to what we know about Dorian and his choices, which part is the fault of white people?
eh, playing the race card sure is getting old IMHO
Agree! Thankful that Lamb is giving us a little latitude on the issue, I think the conversation is way overdue myself. I'll accept any legitimate blame folks want to place on me, but the benchmark for that is much higher than the typical straw man argument we are familiar with.
Does anyone know the law regarding releasing evidence presented to a grand jury? I am completely unfamiliar with it and so it's just my gut feeling with an admitted lack of knowledge on the topic. But, I don't anticipate the evidence being released if OW is not indicted. McCulloch has said the right things but I think he has also always said it will be up to the Judge to rule on it. Which begs the question...does a Judge even have any discretion in releasing such information? I'll see what I can dig up but was wondering if anyone has already run into this. The only case here that I can think of off the top of my head isn't in Missouri is the JonBenet case but that might be different because they actually did issue a true bill.
Tweets from council meeting last night said protesters would be in Berkeley today (City Hall iirc). The mayor and city council there are all black. The ~9000 population in the 2000 census was 77 black/now 82%. The pop. is 1000 less now than in 2000 when whites were 21% of the pop, but now 14%. So why go to Berkeley? That's where they tried and failed to block I-70, perhaps with Berkeley PD as part of LE there? Working with Berkeley politicos to turn out large contingent of angry blacks today as cameras roll, since the Justice for MB Train seems to be losing steam?
Here's the Berkeley police application to show their requirements fwiw: http://www.cityofberkeley.us/documentcenter/view/522
I assume it's because Berkeley is having a mtg, so why not derail it, too -- isn't it next to Ferguson?
I remember when my Great Aunt lived in Berkeley in this beautiful brick home 35 yrs ago -- it's not even there any longer & in it's place is a weedy empty lot next to burned out houses. All those beautiful century homes GONE & I am sure some scavenger made bank scrapping all that brick & copper
It's a cycle that has been turning for almost 50 years IMHO in StL metro -- Lather, Rinse, Repeat a little farther west (or east depending on what side of the Mississippi River one resides)
Who has the biggest dropout rate when it comes to completing high school?
If one drops out how can they ever expect to achieve anything?
And I don't feel these dropouts do so to work menial jobs. Even menial jobs today require a HS diploma or a GED equivalent. Imo, they dropout because they are lazy and would rather run the streets.
They cry in Ferguson that there isn't enough AA cops. I wonder how many have even applied. Is it because most young AAs in the town dropout of HS thus making them disqualified and in many police departments at least a 2 year college degree is required. It isn't like the police force there has something against having AA cops. They do have three on their force.
I really disagree with the excuse if someone is poor and in poverty they cant make something of themselves. Of course they can. The want to and desire has to be there. Anyone can overcome their environment. I really think some would just rather do nothing and continue to cry victim and let the government take care of them than taking care of themselves and their families.
The blame everyone else is becoming old. When this started a video of an AA gentleman, Johnathan Gentry, was put up and it was awesome to actually here his opinion about Ferguson. He said if black people want change then they must change. It all begins with them.
No one is preventing anyone from going to school and the key is education. Also learning that if you want things to change it must first begin with you (the collective 'you.')
Making all of these violent threats shows nothing but ignorance imo. All it does is convince others that these people think violence and intimidation is the answer for everything. Yet they dare to cry that the police are the bad ones here. They are acting just like thugs, imo.
The list of demands gets longer each day it seems. They say they would rather be arrested by ISIS than stopped by the Ferguson PD. Imo, they need to take a long hard look in the mirror for they are acting just like ISIS and if their terrorist demands are not met they will carry out what they have threatened to do. That is exactly the way ISIS operates.
It's a cycle that is being repeated all over America where poverty and crime move in.
In my opinion
I agree. We all agree (I hope, anyway), slavery was wrong. A grave injustice was done to AA's by slavery. Let's move on. Let's just agree that it's time to dust off our grown up pants, and move on. You can be anything you want to be, in today's world, if you are willing to work for it, regardless of the color of your skin. You may need to get a GED, or take out a student loan; join the crowd.
We have the NAACP. Why? If there was a NAAWP (white people), everyone would be up in arms...."hey, you can't do that! That's discrimination! We have black colleges...why can we have "black" colleges and that's ok, but God forbid anyone would refer to something as a "white" college?
Discrimination exists, unfortunately. Old people, fat people, skinny people, ugly people, beautiful people....regardless of the color of your skin.
People are going to continue to play the race card as long as society allows it.
Pretty representative video clip of the "meeting" last night: http://www.kmov.com/video?id=275382111&sec=549362
I'd like to know the background of those protest leaders lined up together up front facing the crowd and imo leading their practiced responses. It looked completely choreographed to me.
Sigh. This post is in reply to Krimekat's post above, #5.
Don't have a legally sound response, but found this article that quotes some higher up in legal circles. Posting it because it has some interesting reasoning about why some info maybe shouldn't come out. My guess is, we will see redacted evidence that protects the privacy of citizen witnesses, which I don't think anyone should have a problem with.
Berkeley website: "The Berkeley City Council conducts meetings on the first and third Monday of each month at 7:00 p.m. These meetings are held in City Hall Council Chambers located at 8425 Airport Road, Berkeley, Missouri, 63134."
No mention of a called meeting today. Berkeley borders Lambert International Airport, and I wouldn't put it past Shahid-Vickers-Baruti to try to impede air travel.
And the reason is......this not a racial issue from the standpoint of the officer and his actions. This is an issue of how we have let our system of law and order down. If we permit our children to run the schools by not behaving, by not working up to their potential, by not getting the proper advice at home about what is expected of you when you go out into the world and the most important, good lord, is setting a good example. This is true of any parent, anywhere, any level of society and unfortunately is all too common in our society today. We make excuses for our children when they get into trouble instead of saying, "Okay, you messed up but let's put it right." Instead some parents badmouth the authority figure who has to do the job the parent has neglected in the first place. And, yes, sometimes the results are tragic.
Everything starts with a child. I live in a community in the South where the population is split right down the middle. Very few young people are disrespectful. They open the door for the elderly. They say thank you, good morning, how are ya doin, etc. They make eye contact when they talk to you. The school system is orderly and there are very few problems. Why? Because their parents have taught them to be respectful of others and because the families have all lived here together for generations and are respectful to one another.
When you address an elected official of the government, at all levels, it demands respect. You do not have to like the person in the position BUT the position itself demands respect. If you do not like what you are getting then join a local campaign to get this official out of office.
There is presently zero, zero evidence that MB was shot because of his color. That is a fact. So let's just all refrain from presenting this case as such. What the community does and how they do it can be discussed. They feel they are making history but they may not be happy in the way history presents their actions. It all comes out in the wash.
I would LOVE to see that happen -- how could that not be considered Domestic Terrorism ?!
Thanks for the info about Berkeley's mtg
"Rosen, the former federal prosecutor disagreed. Why wouldnt you put in all the evidence you know of so that the jurors know what is out there? he asked. The biggest complaint we hear about grand juries is that it is one-sided. The prosecutor just presents his evidence
. It was always my practice to let the jurors know everything about the case, good and bad
.Why shouldnt the grand jury hear evidence both ways? They are supposed to stand between the government and the citizen, so why wouldnt we let them know all the evidence?
I think the witnesses names should be redacted for their own safety. I have no problem with that at all.
I also agree with this gentleman's take on the proceedings.
Why not all the evidence?
Rosen, the former federal prosecutor disagreed. “Why wouldn’t you put in all the evidence you know of so that the jurors know what is out there?” he asked. “The biggest complaint we hear about grand juries is that it is one-sided. The prosecutor just presents his evidence…. It was always my practice to let the jurors know everything about the case, good and bad….Why shouldn’t the grand jury hear evidence both ways? They are supposed to stand between the government and the citizen, so why wouldn’t we let them know all the evidence?”
Separate names with a comma.