MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #9

[tlcya]

"Into his front" ... You see in an anatomical position the ventral side of your arm is front. Ventral = front. However because of the mobility of the arm anatomy, the resting position of your arm has this side facing BACK. This has been spoken of numerous times all over MSM by differing experts.

I provided links. I give up. You will all see what you want to see. I explained the logic... Why a shot to the front could really mean shot to the back when we are talking about the arms. but 98% of you have your mind made up. Nothing I can do. I tried. Night all

I feel your frustration. I too have provided requested links only to have them go unacknowledged and requested yet again by the same parties two pages later or on the very next thread. Have a good night.

I want you to know I do not feel adversarial towards you. I just am tired. And I feel you may be too. This case is mentally exhausting to try to discuss responsibly within TOS. I want to acknowledge your attempts to do so.

 

[Lovejac]

Professor Parcells :giggle:

 

[Muffet]

Unfortunately, I don't think some in our society are looking for the truth. Some have agendas they follow. I am appalled that some people categorically say all LE are crooked. This is just my opinion. Like you, I am trying to find the facts and am relying on main stream media reports to support statements made in this thread. I am even trying to understand those who have different views than I have. My opinion has totally changed after reading the provided main stream media links. Again I will say I have learned a tremendous amount by reading hours and hours of statements with links main stream media links provided as proof. I am sending a huge thank you to all the posters who have spent even more hours researching and looking for the facts and then posting statements back by hard, true main stream media articles/TV videos. In my opinion, most of us here are trying to be open minded in reviewing this case.

:thumbup:

I agree, with the qualifier that I only heed what comes from the MSM if it is a direct quote from an official.

I've seen too many journalists report that "Official so and so said (blah)" when the (blah) was the journalist's words and a MISinterpretation of what the official said.

 

[CARIIS]

We have all learned about MR Pascallo or whatever his name is ! I never knew this. The Dr that did the first autopsy had some stuff to say. I know we all found out - but never knew she slammed him publically ( good you go girl ha)

Her public comments:

she is concerned by one of the men hired by the Brown family to conduct its own exam.

I can tell you absolutely that I find what Parcells does to be abysmal,”

...Case, along with a number of other medical examiners and pathologists, have been heavily critical of Parcells.

“He is doing forensic autopsies which may send someone to prison, and he is not a physician, much less a forensic pathologist,” she told TheDC, adding that forensic pathologists and medical examiners throughout the U.S. “are shocked by this man and how bold he is to do what he does.”

Dr. Baden did not know about Parcells’ baggage or he would not have become associated with him,” Case told TheDC. “His association with Parcells is very unfortunate.” Asked whether she is concerned that Parcells’ shortcomings are an issue in the Brown autopsy, Case said, “Of course I do.”


Told of Case’s criticism, Parcells told TheDC, “Oh, I’m not surprised.” “She hasn’t liked me for a really long time. So, whatever. I don’t know what else to say other than that.”

direct quote from him laughable:
Parcells explained to TheDC earlier this week that the bullet was traveling in a back to front direction,

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/21/st-louis-medical-examiner-slams-brown-family-hire/#ixzz3BAuagde3


Looked up abysmal

Full Definition of ABYSMAL

: extremely poor or bad!!!!!!!!!1

a : having immense or fathomless extension downward, backward, or inward <an abysmal cliff>
b : immeasurably great : profound <abysmal ignorance>
c : immeasurably low or wretched <abysmal living conditions of the poor>

Good lord , advertisments (video!) started playing when I went to dictionary come on ! Ha


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/21/st-louis-medical-examiner-slams-brown-family-hire/#ixzz3BAtUYuJi





​

 

[bettybaby00]

That fact has always stuck in my mind, that only 3 were recovered from the body.

I honestly would not be suprised to find out that MB wasn't hit by 6 bullets.

IMO and according to Dr G (she was on Fox or CNN the other day) the first autopsy is the most accurate of all. And I'm wondering why we heard about the 2nd autopsy on Mon and still nothing about the 1st one.

BBM

B/c The ME who did the first autopsy didn't hold a press conference to announce that.....

“The sheer number of bullets and the way they were scattered all over his body showed this police officer had a brazen disregard for the very people he was supposed to protect in that community,” Mr. Crump said. “We want to make sure people understand what this case is about: This case is about a police officer executing a young unarmed man in broad daylight.”

~Benjamin L. Crump, Brown family attorney​

 

[Muffet]

If you would take the time to read thread #8, you would see all the negative main stream media concerning Parcells. I know reading all the posts and links are time consuming, but it is very rewarding in gaining knowledge about this case. Even the "Professor" is being questioned. Parcells questionable credentials was discussed with links provided for hours on end in the previous thread. Please read about Parcells. You could even google his name and find all the articles.

After reading up on him last night, I won't be surprised to find him wishing he had stayed under the radar. IANAL, nor do I know how much power all the professional boards have to discipline someone who isn't actually board certified. But he appears to have made himself susceptible to charges of fraud (at least), imo.

 

[Ladylub]

Great thought. I hadn't even considered that scenario. Office Wilson also could have worried that he might be bringing other people with him.

I didn't think of getting other people. Weird how our minds go to different things.

 

[bettybaby00]

And it's Braveheart :crush:

I know right? :crush:

 

[sorrell skye]

Prof. Parcells said a wound on Brown’s right arm was “consistent with a witness statement” that Brown was first shot while facing away from Wilson, but he stressed that he and Dr. Baden could not determine conclusively the trajectories of the bullets that hit Brown—or which direction he was moving—when he was shot. The wounds “could be consistent with going forward or going backward,” Dr. Baden said.

http://www.newsweek.com/what-we-learned-michael-browns-autopsy-265247

The wounds “could be consistent with going forward or going backward,” Dr. Baden said.

http://www.newsweek.com/what-we-learned-michael-browns-autopsy-265247

'Going forward or going backward' does NOT mean the same thing as being shot from/to the back. That statement by Dr. Baden does not mean that he believed MB was shot from behind, IMO.

In order to move backward, one must be facing whatever it is one is moving backward from. Same goes for moving forward.

 

[Boytwnmom]

as courts only have jurisdiction per the state statute. In dual jurisdiction both the juvenile and adult systems have jurisdiction. Under that process, when there is a suspended adult sentence there is a process for going back to court if the offender violates a condition of the suspended sentence or committed a new offense. I'll excerpt the relevant portions:

Transfer to court of general jurisdiction, dual jurisdiction of both criminal and juvenile codes--suspended execution of adult sentence, revocation of juvenile disposition--petition for transfer of custody, hearing--offender age seventeen, hearing--offender age twenty-one, hearing--credit for time served.
which is basically what you're describing. The statute also has other provisions concerning juveniles other this type of dual jurisdiction:

211.073. 1. The court shall, in a case when the offender is under seventeen years and six months of age and has been transferred to a court of general jurisdiction pursuant to section 211.071, and whose prosecution results in a conviction or a plea of guilty, consider dual jurisdiction of both the criminal and juvenile codes, as set forth in this section. The court is authorized to impose a juvenile disposition under this chapter and simultaneously impose an adult criminal sentence, the execution of which shall be suspended pursuant to the provisions of this section. Successful completion of the juvenile disposition ordered shall be a condition of the suspended adult criminal sentence. The court may order an offender into the custody of the division of youth services pursuant to this section: ...

2. If there is probable cause to believe that the offender has violated a condition of the suspended sentence or committed a new offense, the court shall conduct a hearing on the violation charged, unless the offender waives such hearing. If the violation is established and found the court may continue or revoke the juvenile disposition, impose the adult criminal sentence, or enter such other order as it may see fit.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C200-299/2110000073.HTM


That said, I've not a criminal attorney so I don't know anything beyond what's set out in the statute.

Can a legal Eagle here tell us if there are ever judicial judgements given to juveniles where a reduced sentence is contingent upon avoiding getting caught for more criminal behavior once adulthood is reached?

Details about that would be interesting, since it might add even more motivation to avoid arrest.

 

[bwt42]

http://www.newsweek.com/what-we-learned-michael-browns-autopsy-265247

What in this article are you highlighting?

 

[CARIIS]

Getting published in journals is huge!!

Mary Case, M.D.

Position: Professor Education: Saint Louis University School of Medicine, 1969 Office: Doisy Hall, Rm 517 Email Address: caseme@slu.edu CV: Mary Case, M.D.

Mary Case, M.D.

Clinical/Research Interests:

Child abuse and abusive head injuries; adult head trauma

---

Division

Forensic Pathology
Certifications

1974 American Board of Pathology, Anatomic Pathology
1975 American Board of Pathology, Neuropathology
1983 American Board of Pathology, Forensic Pathology

Memberships

AMA
NAME
AAFS
IAP
MO State Med Association
St. Louis Med Society

Departmental Affiliations

Anatomic, Neuropathology, and Forensic Pathology

Publications

1. Kemp JS, Unger B, Wilkins D, Psara RM, Ledbetter TL, Graham MA, Case M, and Thach BT, Unsafe Sleep Practices and An Analysis of Bedsharing Among Infants Dying Suddenly and Unexpectedly: Results of Four-Year, Population-Based, Death-Scene Investigation Study of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome and Related Deaths. Pediatrics. 106: (3)2000.

2. Case, M.E., Graham, M.A., Handy T.C., Jentzen, J.M., and Monteleone, J.A. : Position Paper on Shaken Baby. National Association of Medical Examiners Ad Hoc Committee on Shaken Baby Syndrome. Amer. J. of Forensic Medicine and Pathology. 23(21): 112-122, 2001.

3. Case, Mary, Drinking and Driving in the State of Missouri, St. Louis Metropolitan Medicine. 23: 10-11,2001.

4. Unger B, Kemp JS, Wilkins D, Psara R, Ledbetter T, Graham M, Case, M, and Thach BT, &#8220;Racial disparity and modifiable risk factors among infants dying suddenly and unexpectedly&#8221;, Pediatrics, 2003; 111(2):127-31.

5. Morad Y, AvniI, Capra L, Case, ME, Feldman K, Kodsi SR, Ersernio_Jenssen D, Kukefahr JL, and Levin Av. Shaken Baby Syndrome without Intracranial Hemorrhage on Initial Computed Tomography, J AAPOS 2004;8:521-527.
6. Case, Mary E. &#8220;Abusive Head Injury in Infants and Young Children&#8221;. Legal Medicine Advances in Forensic Pathology, Legal Medicine (Tokyo) 2007;9(2):83-87.
7. Case, Mary E. Forensic Pathology of Child Brain Trauma, Brain Pathology 2008;18:562-564.
8. Case,Mary E. Accidental Traumatic Head Injury in Infants and Young Children, Brain Pathology 2008;18:583-589.

9. Case, Mary E. Inflicted Traumatic Brain Injury in Infants and Young Children, Brain Pathology 2008;18:571-582.

10. Voges d, Harris K, Psara R, Graham M, Case M, Thach BT. Post-Mortem Temperatures of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) Infants: Relevance For the &#8220;Heat Stress&#8221; Theory for SIDS. Submitted for publication Jan 2009.

Book

1. Child Fatality Review Quick Reference. Randall Alexander, MD, PhD and Mary Case, MD. STM Learning, Inc, St. Louis 2011.
Honors and Awards

Special Leadership Award for the Professions, Metropolitan St. Louis YWCA, December 7, 1990.
Norman Westbrook "Hall of Fame" Award, Missouri Police
Juvenile Officers Association, May 19, 1992.
Roland Quest Award, St Louis University School of Medicine Pathology Department, 2000.
Saul R. Korey Lecture, "Neuropathology and Forensic Pathology: A Natural Synergism", 76
Recognition Award from the St. Louis Metropolitan Medical Society for the video "Teen Drinking and Driving", January 13, 2001.
Faculty Woman of the Year 2001, St. Louis University, April 26, 2001.
Special Recognition Award, St. Charles Crime Stoppers, April 18, 2002.
Alumnus of the Year, Jefferson City High School, 2007.
President&#8217;s Award, National Association of Medical Examiners, Louisville, KY, September 9, 2008.
George E. Gantner, Jr., MD Memorial Lecture Award, Masters 13 Conference for Advanced Death Investigation, St. Louis University School of Medicine, July 27,2009

http://path.slu.edu/index.php?page=mary-case-m-d.

---

VS:


Pushing corpses around/

Your responses must be comprehensive and detailed. Please support you conclusions in a concrete manner. Differences are to be examined in a thorough manner!!

LOL!!!!!

 

[Muffet]

as courts only have jurisdiction per the state statute. In dual jurisdiction both the juvenile and adult systems have jurisdiction. Under that process, when there is a suspended adult sentence there is a process for going back to court if the offender violates a condition of the suspended sentence or committed a new offense. I'll excerpt the relevant portions:

Transfer to court of general jurisdiction, dual jurisdiction of both criminal and juvenile codes--suspended execution of adult sentence, revocation of juvenile disposition--petition for transfer of custody, hearing--offender age seventeen, hearing--offender age twenty-one, hearing--credit for time served.
which is basically what you're describing. The statute also has other provisions concerning juveniles other this type of dual jurisdiction:

211.073. 1. The court shall, in a case when the offender is under seventeen years and six months of age and has been transferred to a court of general jurisdiction pursuant to section 211.071, and whose prosecution results in a conviction or a plea of guilty, consider dual jurisdiction of both the criminal and juvenile codes, as set forth in this section. The court is authorized to impose a juvenile disposition under this chapter and simultaneously impose an adult criminal sentence, the execution of which shall be suspended pursuant to the provisions of this section. Successful completion of the juvenile disposition ordered shall be a condition of the suspended adult criminal sentence. The court may order an offender into the custody of the division of youth services pursuant to this section: ...

2. If there is probable cause to believe that the offender has violated a condition of the suspended sentence or committed a new offense, the court shall conduct a hearing on the violation charged, unless the offender waives such hearing. If the violation is established and found the court may continue or revoke the juvenile disposition, impose the adult criminal sentence, or enter such other order as it may see fit.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C200-299/2110000073.HTM

That said, I've not a criminal attorney so I don't know anything beyond what's set out in the statute.

Thank you THANK YOU THANK YOU!!

That was exactly what I had been wondering about, and I know looking it up and formatting it into an answer is time consuming pain.

Check's in the mail, counselor.

 

[popsicle]

Good discussion with experts on FOX right now

 

[PaperDoll]

Diagram of where MB was shot. To me it looks like he was shot from the front..

 

[bettybaby00]

Do you know if if it is legal to release an individual's juvenile record after they are deceased? There was discussion much earlier on thread #8 about this.

I promised to find this earlier

I had asked an attorney to weigh in if they could about MBs sealed juvenile record as it related to the FIOA request from that reporter (sorry his names escapes ATM)

Boytwnmom
Verified Attorney
Join Date
Jul 2008


Two questions from closed threads
One was about juvenile records access. I had posted some info about ths earlier which I will reproduce below. But the gist of it, from the statute, is that a juvenile arrested or convicted (in juvenile ct terms, "adjudicated delinquent") of a class A felony, first or second degree murder or capital murder will pretty much automatically have their juvenile record made public. In all other cases, a court order is required. The standard for access is a "legitimate interest". I have not looked at case law to see how that standard plays out in practice.

The other question was about whether death "opens" the records otherwise sealed. In general, no, unless there is something in MO that specifically provides for that, which I haven't seen and which I doubt exists. This type of record access is purely in the hands of the state. If they wanted sealed records available after the subject's death it would be so stated. Also, in general, privacy type rights (which are similar) survive the death of the person. Rights may also reside with the immediate family to protect the rights of the decedent. So, I highly doubt that death, in and of itself, would make the records available. It may be that the circumstances of the death would create a legitimate interest in someone so that they could then obtain the records under the court order standard. And, if the underlying offenses were sufficiently serious, the records would already be available.

This is the statute:

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c200-299/2110000321.htm

I will excerpt relevant parts:

Juvenile court records, confidentiality, exceptions--records of peace officers, exceptions, release of certain information to victim.

211.321. 1. Records of juvenile court proceedings as well as all information obtained and social records prepared in the discharge of official duty for the court shall not be open to inspection or their contents disclosed, except by order of the court to persons having a legitimate interest therein, unless a petition or motion to modify is sustained which charges the child with an offense which, if committed by an adult, would be a class A felony under the criminal code of Missouri, or capital murder, first degree murder, or second degree murder or except as provided in subsection 2 of this section. In addition, whenever a report is required under section 557.026, there shall also be included a complete list of certain violations of the juvenile code for which the defendant had been adjudicated a delinquent while a juvenile. This list shall be made available to the probation officer and shall be included in the presentence report. The violations to be included in the report are limited to the following: rape, sodomy, murder, kidnapping, robbery, arson, burglary or any acts involving the rendering or threat of serious bodily harm. The supreme court may promulgate rules to be followed by the juvenile courts in separating the records.

....
(2) After a child has been adjudicated delinquent pursuant to subdivision (3) of subsection 1 of section 211.031, for an offense which would be a felony if committed by an adult, the records of the dispositional hearing and proceedings related thereto shall be open to the public to the same extent that records of criminal proceedings are open to the public. However, the social summaries, investigations or updates in the nature of presentence investigations, and status reports submitted to the court by any treating agency or individual after the dispositional order is entered shall be kept confidential and shall be opened to inspection only by order of the judge of the juvenile court;

(3) As otherwise provided by statute;

(4) In all other instances, only by order of the judge of the juvenile court.

3. Peace officers' records, if any are kept, of children shall be kept separate from the records of persons seventeen years of age or over and shall not be open to inspection or their contents disclosed, except by order of the court. This subsection does not apply to children who are transferred to courts of general jurisdiction as provided by section 211.071 or to juveniles convicted under the provisions of sections 578.421 to 578.437. This subsection does not apply to the inspection or disclosure of the contents of the records of peace officers for the purpose of pursuing a civil forfeiture action pursuant to the provisions of section 195.140.

5. The court may, either on its own motion or upon application by the child or his representative, or upon application by the juvenile officer, enter an order to destroy all social histories, records, and information, other than the official court file, and may enter an order to seal the official court file, as well as all peace officers' records, at any time after the child has reached his seventeenth birthday if the court finds that it is in the best interest of the child that such action or any part thereof be taken, unless the jurisdiction of the court is continued beyond the child's seventeenth birthday, in which event such action or any part thereof may be taken by the court at any time after the closing of the child's case.

6. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prevent the release of general information regarding the informal adjustment or formal adjudication of the disposition of a child's case to a victim or a member of the immediate family of a victim of any offense committed by the child. Such general information shall not be specific as to location and duration of treatment or detention or as to any terms of supervision.

...
(L. 1957 p. 642 § 211.310, A.L. 1969 H.B. 227, A.L. 1980 S.B. 512, A.L. 1989 H.B. 502, et al., A.L. 1993 H.B. 562, A.L. 1994 S.B. 595, A.L. 1995 H.B. 174, et al., A.L. 2004 H.B. 1453
So, court records can't be obtained, except by court order, to persons having a legitimate interest. If a child is charged with an offense which would be a class A if committed by an adult, murder in the first, second degree or capital murder, the records may be obtained. Moreover, after a child has been adjudicated delinquent for an offense which would be a felony if committed by an adult, the records are to be open to the public to the same extent that records of adult criminal proceedings are open to the public.

BOYTWNMOM
Three things cannot long be hidden the sun, the moon, and the truth. -Confucious

After reading this, I realized my assumption that sealed, means sealed pertaining to juvenile records when clearly there are exceptions. if what this reporter believes is true, then that FIOA request might be granted.

 

[bettybaby00]

Baden is on Hannity/fox

 

[Phoebeb]

Dr. Baden just said on "Hannity": "I performed the second autopsy"

 

[popsicle]

Baden is on Hannity/fox

Someone leaked the fact it's an orbital fx

 

[Phoebeb]

I hope Dr. Baden gets to give more of his opinion

Good discussion with experts on FOX right now