MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #3

[SnoopyDoobyDoo]

Sorry, this point was probably made a few times but I just got home so here it is: Why were ALL 3 of their cell phones taken? Did the father not have his own cell phone? Did he forget to bring it to work on his first day at the new job? I can't see that happening but then I have a partner who calls me multiple times a day when he is out. If he did have his own phone, then this family has 3 phones as well as the father's?

Were all 3 phones located in the same place right in the open for someone to see? Maybe it's someone who knows the inside of the house and where the phones would be. Sorry if this has been explained already.

One of the phones was broken, and the mother left all three on the counter because she was in the midst of transferring numbers and such over. Sounds sort of like she started the transfer, got bored (can't blame her, I recently had to program a cell and got fed up after about five names) and left it to continue in the morning. The father might have left his behind so she could get a few numbers off of his, he might have forgotten it, he might not bring it to work and/or has a work cell (either in the truck and he didn't think of it, or possibly left on-site/in the office for whoever would need it in the morning), or whatever.

 

[mysteriew]

The stolen cell phones don't seem weird to me.

If the abductor's aim was to give himself a couple of more minutes before they contacted police, then he would take the cell phones and simply dump them somewhere nearby (like a nearby wooded area?). Or if he was aware of the tracking potential and wished to confuse LE and prevent/delay capture, he would hide them somewhere (like a nearby wooded area?) where LE would have to search extensively, wasting loads of time and manpower.

That kinda points to someone who knows the family. At least knows them well enough to know that they don't have a landline.

 

[tiredblondy]

One possibility - the snatcher didn't come throught the window. THIS TIME.

That is, s/he had taken the grand tour on another occasion.

________

Now, what if the snatcher had a KEY. When were the locks ever changed? Would some former resident still have a spare to use?

Excellent point...I can think of a couple of reasons the cell phones were taken but not sure if I can explain all three being taken unless it was to get rid of any identifying numbers and delay the 911 call.

As far as IF the Parents were involved , why would 3 phones have to disappear??? That makes No sense to me.

 

[davehead21]

But for some reason the way LE is wording it is bothering me. Too much emphasis on the fact that they are cooperating maybe?

I mean you expect parents who have a missing child to cooperate. Usually that isn't even mentioned unless they aren't cooperating.

I totally get what you're saying. I have heard Capt. Steve Young (who, off-topic, has the prettiest blue eyes), use the word cooperate/cooperating a thousand times in the past three days. It just never raised my hinky meter but I now do see where you're coming from and it's definitely food for thought.

 

[mrsu]

I have never heard LE say that the parents are not suspects, only that they have been cooperative thus far but they don't have enough evidence/information to rule anyone out. MOO

Seems to me I have heard/read the phrase "suspect" before. Now to see if I can find a link.

 

[Miziree]

The stolen cell phones don't seem weird to me.

If the abductor's aim was to give himself a couple of more minutes before they contacted police, then he would take the cell phones and simply dump them somewhere nearby (like a nearby wooded area?). Or if he was aware of the tracking potential and wished to confuse LE and prevent/delay capture, he would hide them somewhere (like a nearby wooded area?) where LE would have to search extensively, wasting loads of time and manpower.

I finally got to the end and was just going to post this same thing!! You all are so good!

I'm not sure if this was a real case or a tv show *sigh* I remember a story of a baby being kidnapped, the husband of the women who took her was being deployed to Germany right after the baby was taken. Someone mentioned above (with the article of Baby Lisa wearing boy clothes) they should be checking military because of soldiers coming home. I really think they should look at those being deployed also. JMO

 

[mysteriew]

Thanks for the post. I am not happy that these parents talked about the cell phones being stolen when LE said nothing else was taken. LE may have thought that the phones might be used. Anyone watching the news would pitch them if they haven't already. Or did I get this wrong? Did LE release this info first?

You can't really blame the parents for that too. As the parents LE will give them more details than anyone else. And they are too busy to read what LE is telling the media. So they may have been totally unaware that this info was being withheld.

 

[lonetraveler]

Sorry, this point was probably made a few times but I just got home so here it is: Why were ALL 3 of their cell phones taken? Did the father not have his own cell phone? Did he forget to bring it to work on his first day at the new job? I can't see that happening but then I have a partner who calls me multiple times a day when he is out. If he did have his own phone, then this family has 3 phones as well as the father's?

Were all 3 phones located in the same place right in the open for someone to see? Maybe it's someone who knows the inside of the house and where the phones would be. Sorry if this has been explained already.

The three cell phones missing is a real puzzle for me. Here you have a young mother with two boys and a tiny baby while the father is working all night and not a single cell phone on the bedside table near the mother??? This absolutely does not make sense.:waitasec:

 

[terracotta]

It was bothering me about Lisa waking up and screaming being carried through the house. Maybe one person went in the house, opened the window and handed her out to another person. The dad said there were "windows" open. Do we know how many or which ones? At first I thought it was just that window with out the screen.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I was up late last night reading these two documents, trying to gain some insights into a possible abductor. It's worth noting that neither may apply to Lisa's case. The first publication, dealing with infant abductions studied abductions of infants 6 months old and younger, so some of these things may or may not apply.

http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/publications/NC66.pdf

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/ResourceServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=471

A few things I took away:

- It is more likely to be one abductor than two overall, but where there are two, it is usually in a home abduction and not a hospital abduction.

- Abusive abductors, as opposed to other abusers who do not abduct tend to have a lower degree of interaction with children and a higher degree of social deficits.

- Some abductors use persuasion, and some use force. I think this abductor came prepared to use force if necessary. Entering the house and traveling about, even turning on lights makes me think this abductor was confident that if he/she was confronted he/she would still be able to maintain control of the situation.

 

[Morag]

Sorry if this has been asked and answered on this supersonically fast thread, but:
I've been looking at the Bing.com birdseye map of the house, and I am wondering what the very large warehouse-like building is in the rear. It doesn't look like any sort of accessory building for a residential neighborhood.
Does our trusty local In da Middle know?

 

[mysteriew]

Excellent point...I can think of a couple of reasons the cell phones were taken but not sure if I can explain all three being taken unless it was to get rid of any identifying numbers and delay the 911 call.

As far as IF the Parents were involved , why would 3 phones have to disappear??? That makes No sense to me.

Not saying they did. But if they did it could be staging.

Tampering with a window that wasn't used for entrance/exit, staging.
Taking cell phones, staging. (if it was staging, I suspect that they will be found separately from Lisa.)

 

[LotsaLatte]

Taking cell phones - maybe they did want to delay the call. Maybe they are druggies that steal and sell stuff or just steal to steal. Maybe they don't know about pings or thought they could hide calls that were made from one stolen phone to another one of the stolen phones if the phones disappeared.

 

[mrsu]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjoIe9o8Wu0"]Search Intensifies For Missing Baby - YouTube[/ame]

*search intensifies
*another home is searched???????

 

[lonetraveler]

One of the phones was broken, and the mother left all three on the counter because she was in the midst of transferring numbers and such over. Sounds sort of like she started the transfer, got bored (can't blame her, I recently had to program a cell and got fed up after about five names) and left it to continue in the morning. The father might have left his behind so she could get a few numbers off of his, he might have forgotten it, he might not bring it to work and/or has a work cell (either in the truck and he didn't think of it, or possibly left on-site/in the office for whoever would need it in the morning), or whatever.

It looks to me like the phones would have been put on a charger to charge during the night. I think it kind of strange that all the phones were away from family members and not even one of them on a charger.

 

[tlcya]

MOO, just look at this and a 100 other threads. All dissecting each word, breath, and action of the parents. You can bet your bippy the reporters are doing the same thing. Why? Because in instances like this, we've all seen it play out all too often to be something was done with the child and the abduction a "hoax".

That said, I think LE is reassuring all of us that parents are cooperating because they want to reassure us that parents are cooperating. And probably because each and every reporter keeps asking of them "are the parents being looked at?" "Are the parents still cooperating?" I do not feel LE is reassuring the public of this because parents need to be strung along in to thinking LE is still buying the story.

I would like to think I have a pretty well developed hink meter after my time here at WS. I keep hearing about hink meters going off about this and hink meters going off about that.

Know what mine is saying? These parents adore this child. There parents are not responsible for this child being missing. This child has been taken and they are devastated by it.

Lotta hink meters round here and just as many different readings.

Ya'll want to follow a really hinky case? Go on over to Aliayah's thread. Notice the differences between that abduction and this one. Then we'll talk hink.

I apologize for the rant. I am sick, medicated, worried for this child, heartbroken for these parents and I am logging off for a bit to get my emotions under control.

nursebeeme, if you feel my post is worded too strongly please feel free to delete or snip it. I feel better for having written it.

 

[JoeFromLB]

Praying for her safe return...

 

[lonetraveler]

I've looked but couldn't find out if anyone has done any "body language" readings for the family member.

 

[the seeker]

Not saying they did. But if they did it could be staging.

Tampering with a window that wasn't used for entrance/exit, staging.
Taking cell phones, staging. (if it was staging, I suspect that they will be found separately from Lisa.)

Not saying that I think the parents were involved, because at this point, I really can not even have an opinion on that yet, BUT....IF they were, taking the cell phones themselves could only make sense IF:

Baby L died and someone (one parent) went to dispose of her somewhere...and had the phone on them, and while they were there, the OTHER parent (or someone else) called them, or they forgot and called, which would now leave evidence on the phone....so, they decided to grab all the phones and dispose of them. They would have to dispose of the ALL the phones in order for their story of why the phone was taken to make any sense.

 

[mysteriew]

MOO, just look at this and a 100 other threads. All dissecting each word, breath, and action of the parents. You can bet your bippy the reporters are doing the same thing. Why? Because in instances like this, we've all seen it play out all too often to be something was done with the child and the abduction a "hoax".

That said, I think LE is reassuring all of us that parents are cooperating because they want to reassure us that parents are cooperating. And probably because each and every reporter keeps asking of them "are the parents being looked at?" "Are the parents still cooperating?" I do not feel LE is reassuring the public of this because parents need to be strung along in to thinking LE is still buying the story.

I would like to think I have a pretty well developed hink meter after my time here at WS. I keep hearing about hink meters going off about this and hink meters going off about that.

Know what mine is saying? These parents adore this child. There parents are not responsible for this child being missing. This child has been taken and they are devastated by it.

Lotta hink meters round here and just as many different readings.

Ya'll want to follow a really hinky case? Go on over to Aliayah's thread. Notice the differences between that abduction and this one. Then we'll talk hink.

I apologize for the rant. I am sick, medicated, worried for this child, heartbroken for these parents and I am logging off for a bit to get my emotions under control.

nursebeeme, if you feel my post is worded too strongly please feel free to delete or snip it. I feel better for having written it.

Tlcox no worries. We all have opinions and no one says all of our opinions have to agree. We also have to keep in mind that we only know a part of what is actually known about Lisa's disappearance.

I admit I have concerns about this case. But even my concerns are not serious enough at this point to make any accusations. And I will admit I read a lot into the wording, esp of LE. LE usually doesn't usually release anything that isn't very carefully considered. And they tend to fall back on some very standard wording in their public statements. Any deviation is going to catch my eye, even if when it all comes down it didn't really mean anything.