MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #5

[Amster]

I wonder if "computer room" is a converted garage?

Speaking of kids pj's...I hate, detest, despise those pjs that are skin tight!!! WHAT??? Feels like stuffing a sausage getting my grandsons chubby little arms and legs squeezed in there!! He is not around any open flame here to get his jammies caught in. When I have him in the winter, it's little sweat pants and long sleeve top!

 

[raeann]

curious ... could people here think of a list of 9 or 12 suspects in a disappearance of your child?

I'd be hard-pressed to think of one (in fact I can't think of anyone atm) so just wondering if others might want to weigh in on this ...

Easily....for example....my neighbor across the street just downsized to a brand new home, there are numerous yard workers around, a couple of people working on setting up an estate type sale of her excess household furniture, and movers coming and going to get her remaining items out. I would list every single one of them as someone to be checked out, even though I am quite sure they are all perfectly honorable people. I would list anyone who had come into my home for work such as plumbing, air conditioning repair, window washing or carpet cleaning in the last six months or so. I would even list my chronically jealous and resentful brother-in-law, even though I am sure he can't go for more than two minutes without loudly making a snide comment that would wake up even the dearly departed! I would list the golf course maintenance workers who mow right up to the edge of my back yard every morning, and I would list the creepy neighbors from the next cul de sac over that walk their dog on that golf course area and stand on the tee box and stare at my house nearly everyday. I have lots of flowers and landscaping and maybe they just enjoy looking at those.....but I still find that to be kinda creepy when I see them standing there. So.....my list would be up to around twenty or more just with these. A dozen would be a short list!!!!

jmo

 

[LaLaw2000]

My goodness. I have more than a few questions about what has gone on, a ton of red flags popping up all over, I feel free to say so, and I don't feel the least bit Karmic-ly dirty. For starters, I don't equate LE with vultures.

Thank you for this post, saba!

Many people feel this way about LE ....................... until they need them.

This is a very unique case in that I have never heard of one where the alledged kidnappers left all the lights on, the front door unlocked, and took all the cell phones plus the baby. Yes, there are red flags here and LE has to be able to clear the parents and then move outward.

My concern, worry, and prayers are with little baby Lisa.

 

[Clock's Tickin]

With all due respect, I think it is incredibly naive to assume an attorney is not needed in a case like this. If my child was not found in the first 24 hours, you bet I would find an attorney to protect myself. That's how things work these days. It could be because I am a paralegal, but I would absolutely have an attorney protecting me.

As for the media, our area has been saturated by reports of Lisa's abduction. SATURATED. The ABC affiliate has done a tremendous job of getting the word out on all four of their channels. People are constantly talking about, taking another look at baby girls, etc. The word is out.

I do get the "protecting my butt" part of it, and I'm sure they were probably approached (never had to go looking), but my own butt would be backseat to my child---I have a faulty panic button anyway, so I can't imagine what I'd really do in those moments.

Awesome to know that the media is working overtime on this!! It is that kind of blanket coverage that can really make a difference!

 

[matou]

Does anyone remember whether the 9 names given to police (now 12 names I believe) were names given from the father only? Did the mother give any names of people she thinks could have taken her daughter? TIA

 

[Just-a-Guy]

I'm sorry, but in the history of the world, I don't believe a lawyer has ever found a missing child. In fact, on more than one occasion, they have hindered investigations. Unless the parents are charged with a crime, or believe they will be, I see no reason to hire a lawyer for oneself when one's child is missing. As far as media plugs, I'd be enlisting the help of every friend and relative I could find to swamp the media outlets with photos and info until my child is found. Police departments actually have people on staff to guide you in not making statements that might bring harm to your missing child. IMO-lawyering up at this stage is not a good sign...nobody has accused them of ANY WRONGDOING...yet...

In the first place, you don't know that no one has accused them. From what I read, the cops as much as did so. Are you following the media reports? Did you see the Today show article and vid? In my view, it is fair to say they have been accused. And there's certainly a lot of people here accusing them, directly or indirectly...you could be said to be one of them, in a way.

Secondly, having a lawyer to advise you is never a bad thing, really, especially if you are innocent. Among other things, a lawyer might be able to tell them how far they can push LE, whether they have to accept LE's strategies, and what other kinds of things they can do on their own to help search for the child. A good lawyer can also help smooth communications, by providing a less emotional voice between the various parties.

There are some sleazy lawyers out there, no doubt. But it is very unfair and narrow minded to make blanket assertions that imply someone must be guilty if they hired a lawyer. I had a client once whose child was abducted (case got a lot of publicity, she was released unharmed at a mall the next day). I was one of the first people he called. His family were also 9/11 victims. Sometimes people just need some good help and advice.

 

[In da Middle]

One thing that interests me about the floor plan is because one of our locals, can't recall the name, is familiar with the neighborhood and stated that all the homes have similar fp's. Maybe only 4 different plans in the neighborhood.

This makes me wonder that whoever took Lisa lives in the neighborhood and is familiar with the floor plans of the homes.

moo

wm

Yep! That is why I say if it wasn't the parents (by no means saying it was them, though), it was somebody familiar to them (or neighborhood). Once you have been in a couple of the houses here you could reasonably find your way around any house here. This does not however tell you sleeping arrangements or family patterns, etc.

99% convinced of this.

 

[liz b.]

Any recent "sightings" of Lisa ?

 

[FairM]

You're right, it probably means nothing, but comparing the image of the back of the house with the floor plan, it doesn't appear that the scale would be off too much. I am curious where the bathroom is, but the small size of the room seems odd to me given the huge size of the office. Perhaps they just wanted the baby near them?

With the parents' room right next door, the kidnapper would have to have been extra diligent to not make a peep or have the baby cry out, and with an open floor plan, and the lights left on, hard to imagine you wouldn't notice the lights were on, unless your bedroom door was closed. MOO

The size of the room doesn't bother me , baby usually gets the smallest room imo. what is of concern to me is the fact it is right next door to parents room, we always sleep with our door left open a few inches because we have small children , youngest 19 months and we do not keep our door closed , so we can hear better etc we would also be woken if lights were on all over the house How come she didn't hear anything?? this intruder took a hell of a risk

 

[belimom]

Didn't know if this had been posted:

The mother said detectives told her: "'You did it. You did it. And we have nothing.'"

http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/20111007/896530303.shtml

 

[chieftess]

I remember seeing an interview with a neighbor with a dog but don't remember the context of what she was saying.

If this is the same interview, it is either on Channel 9 or Channel 41, I don't watch Channel 5. Hope that helps you!

Thanks Mojen!
I have been doing searches, and the only thing I could find was a Channel 9 reporter update that a neighbor said her dogs didn't bark..or something to that effect. All the other text is forum chat.
I remember her being interviewed sitting in a chair outside, and the dogs barking at the reporters. I was trying to verify if they said she was a next door neighbor... that's what I remember at the time.
I have been doing a tremendous amount of channel surfing since Monday, so I could not remember what station I saw it on :waitasec:
Still couldn't find any video to back it up

 

[Cazzie]

No, they haven't. Or anyway, there's been zero report of that.

Yes they have. The link was posted a couple times upthread (or previous thread).

A family member (great-grandparent to Lisa?) said so on video to MSM last nite...

Hazel posted it first, and a few others re-posted it...

 

[cluciano63]

Do we know if Dad always worked nights, in previous jobs? I know it took me years after my husband started working graveyard shift before I could feel comfortable falling asleep, alone in the house, and even now, many years later, my sleep is extremely light and any little sound wakes me up, from the fridge noises to any old creak from the house. Just wondering.

 

[Clock's Tickin]

In the first place, you don't know that no one has accused them. From what I read, the cops as much as did so. Are you following the media reports? Did you see the Today show article and vid? In my view, it is fair to say they have been accused. And there's certainly a lot of people here accusing them, directly or indirectly...you could be said to be one of them, in a way.

Secondly, having a lawyer to advise you is never a bad thing, really, especially if you are innocent. Among other things, a lawyer might be able to tell them how far they can push LE, whether they have to accept LE's strategies, and what other kinds of things they can do on their own to help search for the child. A good lawyer can also help smooth communications, by providing a less emotional voice between the various parties.

There are some sleazy lawyers out there, no doubt. But it is very unfair and narrow minded to make blanket assertions that imply someone must be guilty if they hired a lawyer. I had a client once whose child was abducted (case got a lot of publicity, she was released unharmed at a mall the next day). I was one of the first people he called. His family were also 9/11 victims. Sometimes people just need some good help and advice.

Whoa--I never said I thought they were guilty--my typing needs some clarification--and apologies to lawyers on the thread, but I would think that involving a lawyer this early (and I guess that would depend on the lawyer) would hamper progress. Granted, I thankfully have never had a child abducted, but in watching things unfold on these very boards, once the lawyer comes on board things slow down--that part is what I refer to as a bad sign. I have no idea what's going on in this case--so little to go on--the only thing I am sure of is that LE is working as if they believe the parents have more to give in the information department--and a lawyer might impede the information flow--especially if it may paint the parents as less than perfect.

 

[Mirage]

When I got home from work yesterday, my dh also told me of the interview with the lady who said her dog went missing that night. He said the woman lived behind them and maybe over a door one way or another. The dog did return home at some point. In my mind, this is highly suspicious and indicates a likelyhood of a stranger passing thru the neighborhood. Often you can just let a dog out of his fence and he will happily run off rather than stay and bark at you. I was never able to locate the interview that he said had played during the day.

 

[GreenTeam]

Didn't know if this had been posted:

Quote:
The mother said detectives told her: "'You did it. You did it. And we have nothing.'"

http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/...96530303.shtml

Sounds like typical LE interrogative technique to me. (But that's based on that TV show they had this summer where people hid a suitcase of money and then were interrogated by professional LE.)

 

[LotsaLatte]

Is it possible the floor plan left out a room? either a bathroom or a bedroom on the main floor. I ask because if you look at the video (link below) around 5:35 there is an aerial view of the back of the house. I think there are 4 windows and a back door. I am thinking maybe - from right to left - there is Parent's bedroom, tiny bathroom window, Lisa's bedroom window, boy's bedroom window, and computer room door that leads to deck. Of course, the window closest to the door could be in the computer room as well. I'm just throwing this out there.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-parents-upset-police-tough-tactics/story?id=14688581

 

[BeanE]

Do we know for sure that little Pumpkin Pie (I love that nickname so much!) was put into a crib, in her own room, and remained there until the abduction?

In other words, do we know there was not another crib - such as in the parents' bedroom or in the computer room? Do we know that mom didn't at any point put Lisa into another crib in another room other than Lisa's own? (I had 2 cribs for my son - one large and one small in 2 different rooms.) Or bring Lisa into bed with her?

Mom checked Lisa at 10:30pm. Did she say what she did after that? Go take a bath? Read a book or watch TV? Go directly to her own bed and to sleep?

I'm just trying to get straight in my head what I'm assuming and what I've actually heard mom say.

 

[mrsu]

"The main problem I think that we're facing is that everybody (else) has an alibi," Irwin said. "I was at work. I've been cleared. All these other people we were worried about ... the FBI said they've been cleared. The only one you can't clear is the mother that's at home when it happens `cause there's nobody else there."

http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/20111007/896530303.shtml

So allegedly the father has been cleared? And by "all these other people", I'm assuming they mean the list of 9-12 people that were given?

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Yep! That is why I say if it wasn't the parents (by no means saying it was them, though), it was somebody familiar to them (or neighborhood). Once you have been in a couple of the houses here you could reasonably find your way around any house here.

99% convinced of this.

Thanks for responding In da Middle! I agree with you. I live in a condo unit and all the floor plans are the same except that some are a mirror image of others. It would not be difficult for anyone familiar with the floor plan to navigate thru any of the units here.

BTW, I appreciate you 'painting the picture' of the area for those of us who live so far away.

wm