MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #9

[amzberry]

Hi all

Years back a baby was abducted from a prominent couple here in NZ. The Mother and Father looked down into the camera lense and begged to have their baby returned - but ALSO they informed the kidnapper what allergies the baby had, what formula she was used to, what comforts her, what nappies to buy, her favourite food etc. They were so worried that the person who took her wouldn't know how to care for her so felt the need to let them know how, in the hopes the person was watching and would take note. They felt their baby was alive, and she was. They did get her back.

I would have expected something similar from this couple, if they truly believed she was taken.

I admit beinf from NZ I have not read every article or seen all the interviews - but what I have seen is not convincing IMO.

 

[JeannieC]

Statistics: Mo. baby unlikely taken by stranger

"Sometimes what happens when the parent was involved, the death wasn't intentional but involved a kind of serious negligence," he said. "The responsible parent is so ashamed and maybe ashamed toward the spouse that they decide to dispose of the body and then report it as a missing child."

But Allen cautioned against jumping to conclusions, despite the long odds against a stranger abduction.

"Once the spotlight focuses on parental wrongdoing, the public perception is this is a murder. The focus goes away from the little girl and goes to the parent," he said. "That's why in these situations, police are doing exactly what they should do, pursuing every lead ... If Lisa is out there, we need to do whatever we can to find her."

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Statistics-Mo-baby-unlikely-taken-by-stranger-2208819.php

 

[CarmelEyesD]

Re the black lab mix-I gotta say-I have a black lab mix. Maybe it depends on what they are mixed with? Mine barks when the neighbors 2 and 3 house up or down the hill come home or shut their car doors. (And that's when he is inside-he barks more if he is outside). If someone tried to come in the window he would have been met face to face by my dog. If they tried to come in the door they probably wouldn't get in.

 

[JeannieC]

My dad was a policeman and we had lived in Mount Isa where the Chamberlains had lived and dad was still in contact with the police there. One theory that alot of police and locals beleived was that the oldest boy had done something to Azaria to make her stop crying. I still hear that theory even to this day as teachers and neighbours had come out and said he was a terror of a kid................but as we now know....the dingo really did take her baby.

I remember that and it was so terrible. The parents were accused of killing her, then the son, then the mother. I can remember her begging someone to believe her.

It was a long time before they did and so many people had turned against that family. Very sad!

 

[sorrell skye]

I doubt LE is just going by her behavior, though. I don't believe they would tell her she flunked a poly unless they have some type of evidence that proves she lied about something.

JMO

I think LE is flat out recognizing the absurdity of the kidnapping story (and all its many implausible details). MOO

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I believe this is the one you are talking about.

http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-lis...scussion-with-police-20111006,0,5671503.story

Thanks. Very telling video. My speculation is that the phones were found in that wooded area, and that it had not been revealed before by the parents until LE asked for the phones the previous day. Is that possible? Were the phones mentioned at any time priorly? That is why the phones were not reported taken the first day. It wasn't part of the story originally. When they were asked for, then this story was given. LE then tracked down the phones, and tried to get a confession in the wooded area after confronting her with the phones. MOO.

 

[Chris_Texas]

My take (based upon the limited info available):

1. There is a REASON the police are leaning on the parents (and apparently mom specifically) this hard. It likely took them all of about 5 minutes to look at the crime scene and form their own conclusions about whether or not an actual abduction occured.

2. However expert the staging, almost 90% of crimes of this type were perpetrated by a family member or close family friend. LE knows this, and has almost certainly worked the list of everyone from this circle potentially involved -- and my bet is that all of them except mom have been largely cleared.

3. There are too many coincidences and "firsts" in this case. It's dad's first night at his new night-shift job. It's the first time the front door was ever left unlocked.

4. We are asked (by mom) to believe that a maniac just happened to choose this night of all possible nights to attack. It's apparently just luck that he selected a home with an infant of the right sex and age, that the front door was unlocked, that dad was not home, and mom and the boys were such sound sleepers that he felt comfortable flipping on the lights and exploring...

5. And for some reason, in the middle of all this our anti-ninja decided he should steal some cell phones? Seriously? There is only one person in that home who would have the slightest interest in some phones and it isn't a random child abductor. Those phones are gone because there is something on them that the killer doesn't want LE to see.

6. Mom apparently failed her polygraph. It might not be admissable, but it says a lot.

 

[Madeleine74]

I'm getting a Madeleine McCann vibe to this story (combined with my previously mentioned baby Sabrina Aisenberg vibe). I think it's even more rare for babies over 6 months old to be abducted in the middle of the night than we think.

It makes me doubt the parents' story.

The question is: will one of the parents break and reveal the truth?

 

[vlpate]

A "source close to the case" and I did see it on one of the local online news outlets at some point today. I'll see if I can find it for you.

http://www.wowo.com/ArticleDisplay/...ce-Told-Her-She-Failed-Lie-Detector-Test.aspx
"Earlier Thursday, up to 100 officers conducted a shoulder-to-shoulder search in a wooded area near the couple's home. The girl's parents were later seen having an "animated discussion" with detectives working the case, WDAF reports.

Police said Bradley and Irwin claim three cellphones were also taken from their home. Sources also told the station that a phone call was made from the couple's home at about 2:30 a.m. Tuesday."

 

[JeannieC]

Thanks. Very telling video. My speculation is that the phones were found in that wooded area, and that it had not been revealed before by the parents until LE asked for the phones the previous day. Is that possible? Were the phones mentioned at any time priorly? That is why the phones were not reported taken the first day. It wasn't part of the story originally. When they were asked for, then this story was given. LE then tracked down the phones, and tried to get a confession in the wooded area after confronting her with the phones. MOO.

LE stated that the missing phones were mentioned the first day.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Oh I agree. I've just read many posts that have brought her behavior into question and used as a reason to why they think she had something to do with the disappearance or knows more than she claims.

I think her behavior might well be irrelevant to the police. They are looking at this ludicrious sounding break-in story and apparently doubting it.

This is what the police are supposed to do. This is the critical difference between cases that are solved and those that never are. Unlike, for example, the Ramsey case, or the more recent Celina Cass case, here the police are aggressively and openly going after the most likely culprit.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

LE stated that the missing phones were mentioned the first day.

Thanks. I was aware of that and was speculating that maybe it was considered better to not reveal certain facts about the phones at this time. MOO. Neither the police nor the parents mentioned the phones until the parents did as per that video. Just like the failed lie detector the mother may have wanted to break the news first. Just speculation. May not be correct as that would mean the father is involved in this case.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

http://www.wowo.com/ArticleDisplay/...ce-Told-Her-She-Failed-Lie-Detector-Test.aspx
"Earlier Thursday, up to 100 officers conducted a shoulder-to-shoulder search in a wooded area near the couple's home. The girl's parents were later seen having an "animated discussion" with detectives working the case, WDAF reports.

Police said Bradley and Irwin claim three cellphones were also taken from their home. Sources also told the station that a phone call was made from the couple's home at about 2:30 a.m. Tuesday."

JMO but I don't think a 100 officers would be called together to search that wooded area unless they KNEW there was something there to find. Like cell phones that were pinging there. MOO.

 

[lauriej]

reminder------

This week we welcome world famous body language expert Dr. Lillian Glass. Dr. Glass will talk about baby Lisa Irwin's parents and tell us her view on whether they are telling the truth or not. Also Amanda Knox and Michael Jackson.

Sunday, 10-9-11

Time: 8 PM Eastern/7 PM Central/6PM Mountain/5PM Pacific

Direct Link to radio show:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths ... uths-radio

 

[JeannieC]

Searchers comb property for missing baby Lisa Irwin

Crime scene investigators continued searching after dark Saturday inside and outside the home of missing 10-month-old Lisa Irwin, and her parents sat down with detectives Saturday for the first time since Thursday.

But Capt. Steve Young, a police spokesman, said that after looking into the best of 250 tips, police could report no breaks in the case.

“Unfortunately, none of them have led to anything good,” he said.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/08/3195138/police-now-interviewing-baby-lisa.html

 

[MsDetective]

http://www.wowo.com/ArticleDisplay/...ce-Told-Her-She-Failed-Lie-Detector-Test.aspx
"Earlier Thursday, up to 100 officers conducted a shoulder-to-shoulder search in a wooded area near the couple's home. The girl's parents were later seen having an "animated discussion" with detectives working the case, WDAF reports.

Police said Bradley and Irwin claim three cellphones were also taken from their home. Sources also told the station that a phone call was made from the couple's home at about 2:30 a.m. Tuesday."

I wonder if it's just the wording but why wouldn't it say a call was made from the couple's cell phone if it was made from the cell phone? IMO It's saying they made a call from a landline in the house. If so why not use it rather than go to get the call phones and realize their phones are missing? KWIM I als found this interesting.

"The main problem I think that we're facing is that everybody (else) has an alibi," Irwin said. "I was at work. I've been cleared. All these other people we were worried about ... the FBI said they've been cleared. The only one you can't clear is the mother that's at home when it happens `cause there's nobody else there."

What about the 2 older children? They were there.

http://www.wowo.com/ArticleDisplay/...ce-Told-Her-She-Failed-Lie-Detector-Test.aspx

 

[MsDetective]

reminder------

This week we welcome world famous body language expert Dr. Lillian Glass. Dr. Glass will talk about baby Lisa Irwin's parents and tell us her view on whether they are telling the truth or not. Also Amanda Knox and Michael Jackson.

Sunday, 10-9-11

Time: 8 PM Eastern/7 PM Central/6PM Mountain/5PM Pacific

Direct Link to radio show:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths ... uths-radio

Could you remind me again tomorrow?: Because i know I won't remember til after. :doh:

 

[gwenabob]

I wonder if it's just the wording but why wouldn't it say a call was made from the couple's cell phone if it was made from the cell phone? IMO It's saying they made a call from a landline in the house. If so why not use it rather than go to get the call phones and realize their phones are missing? KWIM I als found this interesting.

"The main problem I think that we're facing is that everybody (else) has an alibi," Irwin said. "I was at work. I've been cleared. All these other people we were worried about ... the FBI said they've been cleared. The only one you can't clear is the mother that's at home when it happens `cause there's nobody else there."

What about the 2 older children? They were there.

http://www.wowo.com/ArticleDisplay/...ce-Told-Her-She-Failed-Lie-Detector-Test.aspx

Right. They say a call was made from their HOUSE. If it had been made from their cell phone, it could have been done someplace *near* their home, within the ping area. Could have been done by whoever "stole" the phones. But that is not what they said. They said the call was made from their home. But I was under the impression they had no land line. Only cell phones.

 

[twall]

Searchers comb property for missing baby Lisa Irwin



http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/08/3195138/police-now-interviewing-baby-lisa.html

From your link, the quote box doesn't show up but what I am referring to is in there-why would LE release the home then go back in and search more? We have already seen a news crew has been in there. I thought that odd when I watched Judge Jeanine and I could see LE in the room with the tampered window and on the roof searching. Not good if they missed something then went back after it was released. It is better to keep it sealed off and if the family needs anything escort them in to get what they need or get it for them. If new information is discovered that they need to go back in and collect evidence there is less chance it will be contaminated. LE had the home sealed off in the Haleigh Cummings case a lot longer than this one.

Have there been any reports of any item(s) missing besides the cell phones? A blanket or any other comfort item or toy? Also, what time did JI leave for work on Monday?

 

[twall]

I am trying to locate a transcript of last night's Judge Jeanine show but not having any luck, maybe it is too soon for it to be available. I don't have a DVR or I would re-watch the part I am interested in. Debbie was talking about the boys watching a movie with a young neighbor girl in a room that had bunk beds and I was wondering if this was right before she disappeared. I also didn't catch what house they were in, theirs or the neighbors, trying to figure out the last person to see Lisa besides mom and brothers. Help! Thank you!