MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 mos, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011

--there are no reports of any "neighbourhood figures" not being cleared except for lisa's parents

No one has been publicly cleared or named a suspect in this case.

The study authors analyzed 247 cases of baby abductions by strangers in the United States from 1983 to 2006. All cases involved babies 6 months old or younger.

https://consumer.healthday.com/care...tal-baby-abductions-a-new-concern-619077.html

David Finkelhor is quoted in the article you linked. He is the director of the Crimes Against Children Research Center at the University of New Hampshire and a researcher for the National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway, and Thrownaway Children. He wrote this article for Washington Post in 2013. This part stood out to me...

But children taken by strangers or slight acquaintances represent only one-hundredth of 1 percent of all missing children. The last comprehensive study estimated that the number was 115 in a year.
--
The only scenario more unusual than stereotypical kidnapping is when families falsely report a child as missing to disguise murderous deeds.

IMO, statistics are something to consider, but looking at where the evidence leads is much more crucial. Rare does not mean impossible. Rare does not mean it never, ever happens.
 
I remember when Judge Jeanine Piro on Fox News went to the house and interviewed Lisa’s parents. I still don’t think anyone intentionally harmed Lisa, I think it was a tragic accident that was covered up for fear of losing the other children. I don’t think the truth will ever be publicly known.
 
Between two periods -- 1983-1992 and 1993-2006 -- the percentage of abductions in hospitals and other health-care facilities fell from 63 percent to 32 percent, while the percentage of abductions in private homes grew from 29 percent to 49 percent. The overwhelming majority of abductors -- 96 percent -- were women. And almost all of the abducted babies -- 95 percent -- were found.

Male strangers very rarely abduct babies, said David Finkelhor, director of the Crimes Against Children Research Center at the University of New Hampshire. "The main motive is getting a child to raise as their own," he said. "Men in general don't want to be burdened by the care of a child of this age who has so many needs."

https://consumer.healthday.com/care...tal-baby-abductions-a-new-concern-619077.html

This is from the same link as above. Where 96% are usually women, and men rarely abduct baby's, which would debunk the man carrying a baby around.

I found more statements in the article against the likely hood of abduction then for the possibility. imo

As far as I know there is no investigation going on except that they are still following leads. It has been 6 years now unless something new comes up I doubt if much is going on in the investigation. again imo moo
 
Between two periods -- 1983-1992 and 1993-2006 -- the percentage of abductions in hospitals and other health-care facilities fell from 63 percent to 32 percent, while the percentage of abductions in private homes grew from 29 percent to 49 percent. The overwhelming majority of abductors -- 96 percent -- were women. And almost all of the abducted babies -- 95 percent -- were found.

Male strangers very rarely abduct babies, said David Finkelhor, director of the Crimes Against Children Research Center at the University of New Hampshire. "The main motive is getting a child to raise as their own," he said. "Men in general don't want to be burdened by the care of a child of this age who has so many needs."

https://consumer.healthday.com/care...tal-baby-abductions-a-new-concern-619077.html

This is from the same link as above. Where 96% are usually women, and men rarely abduct baby's, which would debunk the man carrying a baby around.

I found more statements in the article against the likely hood of abduction then for the possibility. imo

As far as I know there is no investigation going on except that they are still following leads. It has been 6 years now unless something new comes up I doubt if much is going on in the investigation. again imo moo

Thanks for the statistical data. I think we might want to use some caution in relying on statistics to answer the mysteries and questions of life. After all, they are only statistics. And real life is.... well, real life.

And the fact is that people, male and female, do abduct children of various ages from various places, including from private homes. Every case is different, and no one can say it never happens or that it couldn’t possibly have happened. JMO
 
semantics aside,

jersey cleared
Police never named Tanko a suspect and said he cooperated with investigators who were satisfied with his answers.

http://www.azfamily.com/story/33288...es-revealed-in-baby-lisa-irwins-disappearance


jeremy cleared
“They were very quickly able to rule Jeremy out,” says defense attorney Cyndy Short.

https://www.people.com/crime/baby-lisa-irwin-2016-missing-update-parents/amp/


deb?

A surveillance camera showed Jeremy on the job. But Deborah was different: No independent witnesses could corroborate her timeline of that night, Short says.

"I think it's clear they are focusing on the parents and that just does not bode well for this investigation. It's clear police are focusing on mom from the searches at the home to the areas close by. We can surmise what they are focusing on by what's going on."

http://www.kshb.com/news/region-missouri/northland/former-fbi-agent-explains-why-investigators-searched-the-irwin-home-again
 
6 years have gone by. Wow.. I barely remember any facts in this case. But just reading what is posted about the call, and the car on fire I am one not to believe things are just a coincidence. I am going to re look over the timeline, and different stories that have been told.

I think its hard to believe someone could actually come into a home and take a baby/child. And it not be the parent. But it happens, I think more than we know. I always think about Riley Fox when children go missing at home. If you have not read about Riley, I would suggest it.

Lisa's case is what brought me to WS. Now, 6 years later I live less than 30 minutes from where this happened. I would be lying if I said I don't look at kids her age to see if it could be her whenever I'm in KCMO.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
semantics aside,

jersey cleared
Police never named Tanko a suspect and said he cooperated with investigators who were satisfied with his answers.

http://www.azfamily.com/story/33288...es-revealed-in-baby-lisa-irwins-disappearance


jeremy cleared
“They were very quickly able to rule Jeremy out,” says defense attorney Cyndy Short.

https://www.people.com/crime/baby-lisa-irwin-2016-missing-update-parents/amp/


deb?

A surveillance camera showed Jeremy on the job. But Deborah was different: No independent witnesses could corroborate her timeline of that night, Short says.

"I think it's clear they are focusing on the parents and that just does not bode well for this investigation. It's clear police are focusing on mom from the searches at the home to the areas close by. We can surmise what they are focusing on by what's going on."

http://www.kshb.com/news/region-missouri/northland/former-fbi-agent-explains-why-investigators-searched-the-irwin-home-again

http://www.kctv5.com/story/16077691/picerno-witness-claims-handyman-paid-300-for-kidnapping

Kansas City police say they have interviewed Tanko about Lisa's disappearance but said they have "moved on" from him. They have not cleared him or anyone as a suspect in the disappearance of the baby in case new evidence warrants a review.

From another report no longer online. This is about the male next door neighbor, but it shows they have been careful not to publicly rule any one out.

KCTV5 News reported Thursday that a KCPD spokesman confirmed the neighbor has been cleared and that the department had ‘moved on from him.’

However, asked to confirm that KCPD cleared the neighbor, KCPD spokeswoman Stacey Graves wrote in an email Friday, "I cannot confirm the below statement. We are not providing specific information in regard to the investigation, which would include 'clearing' a person detectives have contacted."

These comments were both made in November 2011. Historically, KCPD has confirmed very little information in this case.
 
An internal investigation, which began in late 2015, revealed gross negligence and mishandling of cases within the KCPD's Crimes Against Children unit. During the course of the internal investigation, in early 2016, seven of the unit’s eight detectives were suspended.

Much more info about the internal investigation here:

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article101962597.html

For years, Kansas City police detectives failed to properly investigate some rapes, serious abuse and other crimes against the city’s children. And in many instances, detectives did no work at all, internal police department memos recently obtained by The Star reveal.

A special squad assigned a year ago to help clear backlogged cases uncovered those problems and many others so serious that in January Police Chief Darryl Forté suspended nearly the entire Crimes Against Children unit of detectives and sergeants. At the time, Forté said cases were being worked too slowly.

But police never disclosed the depth and scope of the detectives’ inaction on reported crimes — sexual assaults, broken bones, near starvation among them. The department’s own memos describe 148 “severely mishandled” cases, “gross negligence,” “incompetence” and evidence of attempts to “cover up.”

--

Detectives closed cases they could have solved, the documents detail. They never questioned some named suspects. They failed to follow a lead involving DNA.

And they left a handgun, cellphones, DVDs of recorded interviews with children and a range of other evidence in desks for months, even years, sometimes without any note to indicate what case the evidence accompanied.

--

Police commanders knew of problems in the unit as early as 2011, when several attempts by a sergeant trying to deal with “less than satisfactory performance by several detectives” was “met with resistance from command staff,” Lindaman wrote in a memo.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article121466762.html

After a 3-year-old girl accused a Kansas City man of molesting her in 2013, lab tests linked the man’s DNA to a semen stain on the girl’s underwear, court records say.

Yet the man, Parrish Smith, remained free.

Nine months after the DNA match, in summer 2014, three other girls accused him of touching them inappropriately.

Smith still remained free.

Another year passed before a 2015 phone call to a grandmother of two of the victims offered a glimpse into the troubled Kansas City Police Department’s Crimes Against Children unit — troubles one police commander called the biggest systemic failure he had ever seen.

The KCPD Crimes Against Children unit led the investigation of Lisa's case for at least the first six months. Lisa's case was high profile and exceptional. Clearly, many different detectives, agencies (including FBI) and resources were initially utilized to find her. Many, many leads were followed. Early reports indicate that more than 300 law enforcement officials were working to find Lisa in the first week. Sondra Zink, a lead investigator on the case, was interviewed about the investigation in this article. She is not among the suspended detectives. According to that article, a group of investigators remained solely focused on Lisa’s case until about mid-March 2012, when they started taking on other cases. Zink transferred to another unit around that time.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/11/22/3281893/kc-police-disband-baby-lisa-command.html

November 22nd, 2011

For more than six weeks, a large group of detectives from the Crimes against Children unit had been focusing solely on finding Lisa Irwin, who was 10 months old when she disappeared Oct. 4 from her home on North Lister Avenue.

But that put a strain on the detectives left in the unit to investigate all the city’s other reported child abuse, sex abuse and neglect cases, police said. The other cases and victims were suffering from the lack of available investigators, police said.

A core of seven or eight detectives will remain assigned to the baby Lisa case, police said, but the detectives now also will take on other cases from their respective units. FBI agents also will continue to work with police at the same level as before, police said.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/crime/article24727189.html

April 4th, 2012

But Kansas City Police Capt. Steve Young said tips and leads have slowed. Several detectives from the crimes against children unit continue their investigation.

“But they have other cases they have to work, so it is back to normal,” Young said.

http://fox4kc.com/2012/04/04/baby-lisas-disappearance-continues-to-stump-police-six-months-later/

Zink said to date there have been 1,561 tips in the case. Police have cleared 1,522 of those and continue to investigate the others. Zink said there are four investigators assigned to the case, and as the investigation continues, the amount of tips has greatly decreased. In March there were only 11.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/17332959/search-for-baby-lisa-irwin-grows-cold

Kansas City police maintain that the disappearance is still classified as a missing or abducted child and the Crimes Against Children detectives - not homicide detectives - are investigating the case.
--
"During an investigation, there are a lot of pieces that need to be explored. Clearly the cadaver dog is public record," Young said. "Everyone knows a cadaver dog was involved. That was one of the many parts of this investigation - unless driven by more evidence the case will remain with the Crimes Against Children Unit."

Although law enforcement clearly put a lot of effort into the investigation, I have to wonder if these failures in the unit had any effect on this case. The mishandling of cases within the department have and will become a part of many court cases, since attorneys can bring up information that could undermine a detectives believability on the witness stand. Did any of these suspended detectives work on Lisa's case in the beginning, and to what extent?*** In the months and years after her disappearance, did this unit properly investigate tips and leads? Have detectives in this unit been assigned the case all this time, or has it been transferred to detectives in other units since April 2012? I truly hope Lisa's case is being worked on by professional, competent, unbiased investigators who follow the evidence where it leads.

***One of the Kansas City Star articles above named the detectives involved and listed how long they had worked in the unit. One of the detectives worked in the unit for 17 years. The other 6 detectives worked in the unit for 9, 8, 7, 3, 2, and less than 1 years.

In the first six months, tensions between family and police were widely reported. Early on, the family was frustrated because they felt KCPD was focusing too much on Deborah and not focusing enough on the other leads pointing outside the home. They also felt upset because police were not updating them or providing answers about tips and leads, which is a common occurrence among families of the missing.

In more recent years, past tensions between the family and KCPD have seemingly improved. October 2014:

The initial torrent of leads has slowed to a trickle, but Kansas City police said they follow up on any they receive. Detectives have received about 100 new tips in the last year, according to police.

Each tip is assigned a lead number, and a detective is assigned to follow it up.

“We are still actively investigating her disappearance,” said police Capt. Tye Grant. “We know that someone out there knows what happened to her.”

Although relations between the family and police were strained at the onset of the investigation because of disputes about how cooperative Lisa’s parents were being, those concerns have dissipated.

“The lines of communication are open,” said Grant.

Irwin said that any tips the family receives are passed on to police, which the family trusts will properly check them out.

In January 2015, months before the internal investigation began, Deborah said KCPD had just assigned a new lead investigator. She said, “They're following up a minimum two tips a week, two leads. Which I think is really good after three years.”

In May 2015, KCPD launched a new Missing Persons/Cold Case unit. I am curious to know if they have taken on Lisa's case.

In October 2015, family attorney John Picerno said Deborah works actively with KCPD whenever they call her, or she’ll call them and talk. He said he thinks they are treating it as a missing persons case.

In Feburary 2016, when Lisa's new age progession was released, Lisa's parents did an interview with FOX 4 Kansas City. They said they keep in contact with a new sergeant assigned to the ongoing investigation. “We've gotten few tips in and we send them to police. Now whether or not they're substantial enough to help in the investigation we're not sure, but there's no such thing as a tip too small.”

In October 2016, Lisa's parents sat down for an interview with KCTV5. This article states that although police originally zeroed in on Deborah as a possible suspect, the parents say they hold no grudges.

In that same interview, Jeremy said he thinks police know who they need to be looking at. Deborah stated she understands why police focused on her.

Bradley said she passed a lie detector test. However, police originally told her she failed as a tactic to force a confession. Bradley said she understands and respects why police did that.

“Absolutely! Some of the stuff you see on the news with parents and their children … just horrid things! I can completely understand. It's just after some point in time you got to look elsewhere,” Bradley said.

She expressed this again in November 2016, when Lisa's case was featured on People Magazine Investigates.

“In any investigation like this, the police must look at the people that are closest to the missing child,” she says. Deborah “did everything that she could do to help them clear her, so that they could move forward.”

Police never named them as suspects, but both parents were angry and frustrated they’d been placed under scrutiny — Deborah agreed to a lie detector test and was told she failed — while they feared their daughter’s abductor may have been moving Lisa farther and farther away.

“I completely understand,” Deborah tells PEOPLE now about the unwanted focus on her. “But there comes a time where your vision has to be less myopic. And when you’re not getting anywhere, you have to look in a different direction.”

People Magazine also spoke with Maj. Steve Young.

“It’s hard to say that somebody isn’t a suspect when you don’t have any,” Kansas City police Maj. Steve Young tells PEOPLE in this week’s issue, on newsstands now. “But truly, there isn’t anybody that is or isn’t.”

Both Deborah and Jeremy have denied any role in Lisa’s disappearance, and authorities have never named them as suspects.

But Kansas City police Maj. Steve Young tells PEOPLE, ”It’s hard to say somebody isn’t a suspect when you don’t have any.”
 
lol. all that ^^ informs absolutely nothing about how the assigned LEO's handled lisa's case.
 
this is the search warrant KCPD obtained for the bradley-irwin house:
http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/Baby_Lisa_Search_Warrant.pdf

detectives david albers and kimberly shirley-williams names are clearly visible.

cpn. / maj. steve young was the media spokesperson for the first few years on this case and was one of the other detectives investigating lisa's disappearance (as many of us are aware).


re: det. albers:

1) recipient of the Meritorious Service Award, Jan, 2014
http://kcmo.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2013/12/AGENDA-JAN-14-OPEN.pdf


re: det. shirley-williams:

1) "also assigned to the FBI Cyber Crime Task Force"
https://www.justice.gov/archive/usao/mow/news2010/duncan_complaint.pdf

2) promoted to Master Detective and a member of the award-winning crisis negotiations team
https://www.facebook.com/kcpolice/photos/a.153555204681192.22587.150607851642594/1024822514221119/


re: maj. young:

1) promoted to Division Commander at the Central Patrol Station, KCPD
http://kcmo.gov/police/central-patrol-division/commanders/#.WhtAFHmQwl1


all officers involved in the CAC internal investigation return to work: "They remain valued members of the department," said Chief Forte.
http://www.kmbc.com/article/kcpd-of...ernal-investigation-returning-to-work/3692595


to even begin to insinuate these hardworking and demonstrably respected members of the 2011 KCPD CAC unit who were investigating lisa's case might not be "professional, competent, unbiased investigators who follow the evidence where it leads" (@askfornina) is just disgusting.
 
Obviously, I wasn't saying that every single officer involved in Lisa's case was incompetent. I am well aware of which officers have been publicly named as being involved in the case, but thanks for sharing that with others, because I actually forgot to name the search warrant officers in my post. I have a tremendous amount of respect for law enforcement, and I'm positive a lot of caring, competent officers were involved. With that being said, the public has no way of knowing, at this point, if any of the suspended detectives were involved in Lisa's case at any point in time, or what did or did not occur behind the scenes during the course of the investigation - other than what has been reported. The purpose of my post was to make people aware of the fact that serious problems were discovered in the same unit which reportedly investigated Lisa's case, and to provide a summary of what little has been publicly said about the investigation in recent years. I believe that information should be out there. The poor handling of cases and the consequences that have arisen from the officer's gross negligence is disgusting.

Just to be clear, the suspended officers were reassigned to patrol units. Other detectives and supervisors were moved into the CAC unit.
 
Obviously, I wasn't saying that every single officer involved in Lisa's case was incompetent. I am well aware of which officers have been publicly named as being involved in the case, but thanks for sharing that with others, because I actually forgot to name the search warrant officers in my post. I have a tremendous amount of respect for law enforcement, and I'm positive a lot of caring, competent officers were involved. With that being said, the public has no way of knowing, at this point, if any of the suspended detectives were involved in Lisa's case at any point in time, or what did or did not occur behind the scenes during the course of the investigation - other than what has been reported. The purpose of my post was to make people aware of the fact that serious problems were discovered in the same unit which reportedly investigated Lisa's case, and to provide a summary of what little has been publicly said about the investigation in recent years. I believe that information should be out there. The poor handling of cases and the consequences that have arisen from the officer's gross negligence is disgusting.

Just to be clear, the suspended officers were reassigned to patrol units. Other detectives and supervisors were moved into the CAC unit.


I understand exactly what you meant in your original post. There was obviously more than two or three detectives and officers working this case. The link you provided gives us something to ponder about the quality of this investigation in it's early stage.

Thank you for the well thought out posts. I really appreciate it.
 
Below is a more comprehensive list of KCPD's public statements about Lisa's case since April 2012.

April 4th, 2012:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/crime/article24727189.html

But Kansas City Police Capt. Steve Young said tips and leads have slowed. Several detectives from the crimes against children unit continue their investigation.

“But they have other cases they have to work, so it is back to normal,” Young said.

Lisa’s case still is classified as a missing or abducted child. Young said at this point there is no evidence that Lisa has died.

---

“The leads are certainly not what they used to be,” Young said. “The goal is to find out what happened and hopefully in the process, find the child.”

Young said detectives last met with the baby’s parents on Feb. 2, the day before their taped appearance on the Dr. Phil show. Detectives did not learn anything significant, he said.

http://fox4kc.com/2012/04/04/baby-lisas-disappearance-continues-to-stump-police-six-months-later/

Kansas City Missouri Police Sgt. Sondra Zink said police have not requested an interview with Lisa’s parents since they retained an attorney, however Deborah Bradley has been in contact with police on “a few occasions” to provide information, however those leads were not successful in furthering the investigation.

Zink said to date there have been 1,561 tips in the case. Police have cleared 1,522 of those and continue to investigate the others. Zink said there are four investigators assigned to the case, and as the investigation continues, the amount of tips has greatly decreased. In March there were only 11.

Although tips have dwindled, Kansas City Missouri Police Captain Steve Young said the case remains “active.” In addition, Zink said the case will remain as such until all leads have been closed and there is no new information to investigate.

“Even at the time all avenues to obtain new information have been exhausted, detectives will always be immediately available to respond to anything new that would come in,” Zink said.

http://www.kshb.com/dpp/news/region...ssing-Lisa-Irwin-Still-looking-6-months-later

“There are still four detectives that are actively working the case on a daily basis and up to an additional six if/when the volume of leads requires,” said Cpt. Steve Young.

Young said detectives will consider the case “cold” once all leads are investigated and cleared.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/17332959/search-for-baby-lisa-irwin-grows-cold

"We knew from the beginning that time works against us in these cases," Capt. Steve Young, spokesman for the Kansas City Police Department, told KCTV5 Wednesday.

But he emphasized that the passage of time, "doesn't diminish the dedication, effort and commitment that detectives are using toward the case."

Police have cleared more than 1,500 leads. Young said some leads remain to be checked out, but tips are prioritized and those remaining are not considered promising.

---

Kansas City police maintain that the disappearance is still classified as a missing or abducted child and the Crimes Against Children detectives - not homicide detectives - are investigating the case.

---

"During an investigation, there are a lot of pieces that need to be explored. Clearly the cadaver dog is public record," Young said. "Everyone knows a cadaver dog was involved. That was one of the many parts of this investigation - unless driven by more evidence the case will remain with the Crimes Against Children Unit."

Young said police remain hopeful they will be able to crack the case of Lisa's disappearance.

May 21st, 2012:

http://www.kansascity.com/news/loca...ead-for-her-return-seek-more-from-police.html

During an appearance this morning on NBC’s “Today” show, Jeremy Irwin said that someone fraudulently charged $69.04 to his debit card in November, the month after Lisa vanished. The charge was connected to an overseas company that helps people change babies’ names, he said. The card was suspended after that charge happened and two other fraudulent charges were attempted.

---

Detectives investigated the fraudulent debit card use, said Capt. Steve Young, a Kansas City police spokesman. The card was used to buy stationery but did not appear to be connected to the child’s disappearance, Young said.

“We are not optimistic it is going to turn into anything more than stolen card numbers, at best,” he said.

---

Their attorney, Joe Tacopina, said police did not thoroughly investigate items including witness claims that on the night of the disappearance they saw a man walking near the Irwin home carrying a baby wearing a diaper.

Young said that accusation “is completely false.” Detectives continue their investigation, but there are fewer new leads to pursue, he said.

“The detectives have not washed their hands of the case by any means,” Young said.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/18574393...massive-opportunities-to-find-baby-lisa-irwin

Capt. Steve Young, a spokesman for the Kansas City Police Department, said investigators have worked this case aggressively.

"Accusations that we have not pursued leads are completely false," Young told KCTV5.

Young said leads have dwindled as time has gone by, but detectives are still actively working on the case.

September 27th, 2012:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/27/us-usa-crime-missouri-baby-idUSBRE88Q1SK20120927

Captain Steve Young, spokesman for Kansas City police, declined to discuss the level of cooperation investigators are getting from Bradley and Irwin but said that will be part of a statement on the case released Friday.

---

Young said police are still getting tips in the case.

"They come and go," he said.

September 28th, 2012:

View attachment 127163

http://www.kctv5.com/story/19667428/police-baby-lisa-irwins-mom-only-one-who-can-provide-answers

Young said police "are not putting any label" on Bradley when asked by KCTV5 whether she is a person of interest.

"We still have questions that need answered as the news release states," he said.

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/09/29/3839049/a-year-of-questions-finds-few.html

Zink is proud of the way police and federal agents worked seamlessly together. But she has one regret.

“The bottom line is, no matter how good the investigation is, there’s still a baby missing and we don’t know how,” she said. “There’s no way to walk away and feel good about that.”

Zink said she hoped police will be able to find Lisa alive and well even if the odds don’t favor a cheery conclusion.

“But the happy ending where we found out what happened to her and the person is punished?” she said. “I won’t give up on that.”

October 2nd, 2012:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-ba...hes-gifts-year/story?id=17375065#.UYzHG0rSy7X

"It's been tough for a long time," Capt. Steve Young told ABCNews.com. "It's still an open case and we still seek and need quality tips and leads."

"We'll follow up on every tip and we hope that one of those tips leads to that conclusion," Young said.

September 6th, 2013:

[video=youtube;lPUKGVqtUBA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPUKGVqtUBA[/video]

Q: A lot of folks say they haven't heard anything about the search for baby Lisa Irwin for a long time. They don't feel like there has been an update. Is there anything you can tell us about that case?

Chief Forte: We work leads as they come in. We work with behavioural specialists and those sorts of people, FBI Quantico, Virginia, so sometimes we release some things that people may think may not be appropriate, because we're getting advice from other people. Again, when we get leads-

Q: Some folks are saying, is the investigation over? Is nothing being done? We got a couple questions like that. I guess, to put that to you, just because we're not hearing about developments doesn't mean you're not doing something.

Chief Forte: That's absolutely correct. Sometimes, again, when we get leads, we work all our leads, but if there's no leads coming in, there's really nothing to work. We're constantly looking for leads. We're asking people. If anybody knows anything now, contact us.

Q: Would you describe that as a frustrating case at this point?

Chief Forte: Absolutely. All unsolved missing persons cases, homicide cases. They're frustrating, very frustrating.

October 1st, 2013:

http://www.kmbc.com/article/age-progressed-photo-of-lisa-irwin-released/3678499

"There are no suspects at this time," Kansas City Police Chief Darryl Forte told KMBC 9 News on Tuesday. "We work every lead as they come in. We don't shelve them or anything like that and if anyone out there has seen anything, let us know somebody has seen something."

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/10/01/4523103/tips-dwindle-two-years-after-baby.html

The tips and leads to Kansas City investigators have slowed considerably, to about one a week, said Kansas City Police Capt. Tye Grant.

During the first year, detectives worked more than 1,600 leads and countless baby sightings. Numerous leads were checked twice, but investigators are no closer than they were when Lisa disappeared.

October 2nd, 2013:

View attachment 127164

November 12th, 2013:

[video=youtube;SDBCOjzgeU4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDBCOjzgeU4[/video]

Q: Chief Forte, has Lisa Irwin's age progression image generated any promising leads? Does KCPD still want to question Lisa's mother one-on-one?

Chief Forte: Yes, we've gotten leads- we got quite a few leads when the photo came out, and no, we don't want to talk to the mother again. There is no need to talk to the mother again.

October 2nd, 2014:

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article2486184.html

The initial torrent of leads has slowed to a trickle, but Kansas City police said they follow up on any they receive. Detectives have received about 100 new tips in the last year, according to police.

Each tip is assigned a lead number, and a detective is assigned to follow it up.

“We are still actively investigating her disappearance,” said police Capt. Tye Grant. “We know that someone out there knows what happened to her.”

---

Although relations between the family and police were strained at the onset of the investigation because of disputes about how cooperative Lisa’s parents were being, those concerns have dissipated.

“The lines of communication are open,” said Grant.

October 3rd, 2014:

View attachment 127165

October 2nd, 2015:

http://www.kmbc.com/news/kcpd-baby-lisa-disappearance-open-active-case/35624356

As the fourth anniversary of baby Lisa Irwin's disappearance approaches, Kansas City police say the case remains an active investigation.

Police said they have investigated thousands of tips until they were exhausted.

September 30th, 2016:

http://www.kctv5.com/story/33288936...es-revealed-in-baby-lisa-irwins-disappearance

Police say this is still an active investigation and have received 573 tips regarding Lisa’s disappearance.

October 3rd, 2016:

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article105635281.html

“I do not have anything new to share in regard to the case of Lisa Irwin,” Kansas City police spokeswoman Capt. Stacey Graves said Monday by email. “The case still remains open and detectives follow up on all tips.”

November 14th, 2016:

http://people.com/crime/baby-lisa-irwin-2016-missing-update-parents/

For more than five years, the parents of missing Lisa Irwin — who disappeared in October 2011 from her crib just a few weeks shy of her first birthday — have insisted she was taken from their home in Kansas City, Missouri.

Police don’t know what to believe, or who might be to blame.

“It’s hard to say that somebody isn’t a suspect when you don’t have any,” Kansas City police Maj. Steve Young tells PEOPLE in this week’s issue, on newsstands now. “But truly, there isn’t anybody that is or isn’t.”
 
When looking at police statements in this case over time, one can see they haven't made any firm indication about what they believe happened to Lisa or who they think is responsible. No person or scenario has been publicly ruled in or ruled out. Police apparently have not developed enough information to turn over the case to homicide detectives, or at least they hadn't before April 2012. At that point the case was reported to be classified as a missing or abducted child. One of Det. Zink's statements in her interview stuck out to me also..."there’s still a baby missing and we don’t know how.” On the one year anniversary, police said they wanted to interview Deborah one-on-one again in person, but Chief Forte said that they no longer needed to speak with her when he was asked a year later. Did she agree to be formally interviewed again during that time period, or did police decide it was no longer necessary for whatever reason? The most recent specific information from police about the parent's cooperation is from October 2014, when Capt. Tye Grant said concerns about lack of cooperation have dissipated and the lines of communication are open.

Most recently, Maj. Steve Young said "truly, there isn’t anybody that is or isn’t" a suspect. In the same article, family attorney Cyndy Short said she hopes that investigators have dismissed the idea of Lisa’s parents involvement; “But I don’t know, if you’re in law enforcement, you have to keep all avenues open until you have a clear pathway to go down, which they clearly don’t.” I find it hard to imagine police not having at least some idea of what happened, but based on what they have said, it seems there is probably very little evidence pointing clearly toward the guilty party, or obviously at least not enough evidence to charge that person or persons. I continue to hope for the truth to come out and for police to receive the one valuable tip they need to move forward.

Of course, there are many reasons why police would or would not choose to share information, and every department, investigation and set of facts are different from each other, but I have a few comparisons between police statements in this case and police statements made in two other cases.

Ayla Reynolds, 20 months, and Aliyah Lunsford, 3, were both reported missing from their homes by their parents in the later part of 2011. On the surface, the circumstances of both disappearances seem similar - late 2011, parent(s) report a young child missing from their bed. Upon closer inspection, it's clear that, in many ways, these cases are quite different from Lisa's case.

Ayla was reported missing by her father, Justin DiPietro, on the morning of Dec. 17, 2011. She was staying with him at the time of her disappearance, in his mother’s house. His girlfriend, her child, his sister and her child were also in the home. He said he last saw Ayla when he put her to bed the night before. In December 2011, police publicly stated that they believe foul play has occurred in Ayla's case. Waterville police Chief Joseph Massey said, “The case has evolved from the search for a missing child to a criminal investigation.” Police have determined Ayla did not walk out of the house on her own, and said there was no evidence of an abduction. In May 2012, police said Ayla is unlikely to be found alive. It was later reported that Ayla's blood was found in several places in the home. Ayla's father and the other adults have never been arrested, and Ayla has never been found. Over the years, police have continually stated the adults who were in the home at the time of her disappearance have not been truthful and know more about Ayla’s disappearance than they are sharing.

KCPD have not publicly ruled out an abduction, or indicated they believe Lisa is likely deceased. Although they heavily investigated the parents in the initial months of the investigation, KCPD have never publicly said they believe Lisa's parents know more about the night Lisa disappeared than they are sharing, as Waterville police have continually said about adults in Ayla's case.

Aliayah was reported missing by her mother, Lena Lunsford, on Sept. 24, 2011. She told police that Aliayah had been sick and she had checked on her at about 6:30am. She said she went back to check on her at around 9:30am, only to discover she was missing. Lena Lunsford was jailed three times on unrelated charges in the two years following her daughter's disappearance. Six months into the investigation, the FBI held a news conference. At that time, Agent John Hambrick did not say whether or not they believed Aliayah was still alive, did not say what they believed happened to her, and also did not name a suspect. When asked about persons of interest, he said: "It's a small universe." He did say investigators had ruled out an intruder as the cause of her disappearance. "The initial concerns of somebody slipping in and taking Aliayah -- a break-in -- we found no evidence of that." Aliayah has never been found. The FBI remained tight lipped about the investigation for years afterwards. In late 2016, Lena Lunsford was charged with death of a child by a parent by child abuse, murder of a child by parent by failure to provide necessities, and child abuse resulting in injury and concealment of a dead human body. She is awaiting trial.

I didn't follow Aliayah's case closely, but from what I can tell from reviewing news reports, the FBI was very quiet about the investigation from early on up until Lena's arrest. Police in Lisa's case have been similarly quiet, but again, have not publicly ruled out an abduction, as was the case for Aliayah. For the FBI, 6 months in, to publicly rule out someone coming into the home and taking Aliayah, and having previously ruled out her walking out on her own - that essentially left only one option for what police suspected, which was confirmed when Lena was arrested. Obviously, a big difference between the cases is Lisa's mother has not been arrested for the death of her child. Personally, taking into account what is publicly known at this time, I think it is unlikely Lisa's mother will be arrested on charges related to her disappearance.

What do you make of what police have and have not publicly stated in Lisa's case? What other comparable cases are there?
 
Below is a more comprehensive list of KCPD's public statements about Lisa's case since April 2012.

Looks like some of my attachments didn't work in the quoted post. Here are working links to the 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015 KCPD press releases.

http://media.kshb.com/pdf/LisaIrwinStatement.pdf
http://kcmo.gov/police/media-public...ion-two-years-after-lisa-irwin-disappearance/
http://kcmo.gov/police/media-public...n-three-years-after-lisa-irwin-disappearance/
http://kcmo.gov/police/media-public...on-four-years-after-lisa-irwin-disappearance/
 
I thought of Lisa the other day when I was watching ID and Aliza Bush came up. I often wonder what happened and where she is. I hope she is safe.

MOo.
 
I would of thought the cadaver dog hit in the parents bedroom significant?
(quote)
A cadaver dog searching for evidence of missing 11-month-old Lisa Irwin "indicated a positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human" next to her mother's bed, according to a police affidavit released today.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-cadaver-dogs-detect-smell-deceased/story?id=14786129

Do some research. A "cadaver" dog alert doesn't mean that a dead human was at that location. There is a whole thread here on Lisa's forum about the dog alert.

You will find different opinions but my opinion is that LE used the dog alert to get a search warrant for an intensive search of the Irwin home. I have no problem with that. What caused the dog to alert could be anything from old human blood that had been deposited a long time before Lisa disappeared to the dog handler "cueing" the dog causing a false alert.

Here's a link to the "Cadaver dog" thread.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?152518-Cadaver-dog-hit-on-scent-in-DBs-bedroom
 
Do some research. A "cadaver" dog alert doesn't mean that a dead human was at that location. There is a whole thread here on Lisa's forum about the dog alert.

You will find different opinions but my opinion is that LE used the dog alert to get a search warrant for an intensive search of the Irwin home. I have no problem with that. What caused the dog to alert could be anything from old human blood that had been deposited a long time before Lisa disappeared to the dog handler "cueing" the dog causing a false alert.

Here's a link to the "Cadaver dog" thread.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?152518-Cadaver-dog-hit-on-scent-in-DBs-bedroom

FYI, i have. From researching of this topic myself, a cadaver dog is trained to specifically detect cadaver and nothing else. Not stale blood, a dirty diaper or anything else of the kind. Otherwise what would be the point of a cadaver dog if it alerts to anything else when searching for a dead body?
 
This subject has, of course, been highly debated. Another good thread to look at, for anyone interested, is this HRD dog Q&A thread.

I listened to an episode of The Vanished podcast about Lisa recently. Sidenote, for anyone who is a fan of podcasts, the host of The Vanished does a great job of researching cases and often interviews family members. Anyway, in the episode, she mentioned that she reached out to a man who works with search dogs, who is a member of her podcast discussion group, to ask some questions about the hit. Just thought it'd be interesting to share another opinion on the subject.

She asked him how long someone would have to be deceased before a dog would be able to pick up on the odor of decomposition. He said there is a debate over that, it could be anywhere from 45 minutes to a couple of hours. She also asked about other things that could possibly have caused this one hit, for example, a bloody nose. He said that dogs could pick up on a small amount of blood, and that it doesn't even take that much. He said you could cut yourself cleaning up a broken lightbulb and a couple drops of blood would be enough. The last question she asked was, with this one hit, should we assume case closed? He said no, but if they had that one hit and then found blood that matched Lisa's DNA, that would be a different story.

Police described the cadaver dog hit as "one of the many parts of this investigation." Without knowing what all of those "many parts" are, it's hard to tell what the significance of the hit is. Whatever other information police are aware of along with the hit apparently did not lead them to turn her case over to homicide detectives. Clearly, it doesn't look good for the dog to have made a hit in that suspicious location, but a single cadaver dog hit doesn't prove to me with 100% certainty that Lisa Irwin was deceased in that spot. I'm no expert, but from what I can tell, there are other possibilities and explanations. I want to know what other information and evidence exists before I make any hard conclusions. I think the hit is the strongest piece of public information pointing exclusively toward the parents in this case. The public doesn't know everything the police know, and some of what we know may be inaccurate, due to errors in reporting or unreliable sources, but what little we do know seems to point more outside of the home overall, IMO. I have never heard a theory on how Deborah did it that seems plausible to me, taking into account the timeline and facts as we know them.
 

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