MO - Sophia Knutsen, 7 mos, dies in hot car, St Louis, 23 Aug 2007

[LovingTheChaos]

I do not want to judge the parents I am sure they are punishing themselves enough. i just don't see how you can just forget your kid. I forgot to turn in the day care once and caught myself but i just don't get noy knowing your kids are in the car. have we become so hectic and stressed that we are can remember a cellphone but not our kids?
Someone said airbags and putting kids in the backseat made deaths go up but the fact that women have to work now and are now tired, worn out and handing our kids off to daycare must have something to do with it. I wish more women could be at home with the kids (myself included)

2sisters - I am right there with you, I'd love to stay home with my kids too. However, there are not more working moms today, than there were in 1995- my sister worked, my mother work, heck - BOTH of my grandmothers worked, & they were all moms. My point is, before 1995, these cases were mostly unheard of. What has changed is the fact that all these millions of babies are riding in the back seat, and every year 30 - 40 of them are forgotten. Parents need to come up with a system - they should teach it in the hospital, the same way they teach you not to shake your baby. Or, to put the baby in a car seat, in the back seat, facing backwards. Or that breastmilk is best, yada yada yada. One more service announcement for a new parent to watch would not hurt.

 

[southcitymom]

..... My point is, before 1995, these cases were mostly unheard of. What has changed is the fact that all these millions of babies are riding in the back seat, and every year 30 - 40 of them are forgotten.....

This is a terrific point that I had never really considered.

 

[2sisters]

I am not sure there is a solution to this. I jsut hate how crazy we have become as a whole that we have miscommunications like in this case or forget our kids in othercases.

 

[dasaky]

From what I've read, they didn't FORGET the kid. Each thought the other had taken care of the child.

A lot of good points have been brought up, pro and con, but especially about some type of warning device. That is an excellent idea if it's somehow attached to the car seat.

I wonder at the people who are so against the parents. Do any of you think the parents misunderstood on purpose, that they wanted to kill their child? Have none of you made any mistakes that possibly could have cost serious injury and/or death to someone? Does the fact that some else made a mistake you never made make you a better person? Don't accidents just happen anymore, must someone always be held accountable?

There's a lot of food for thought here.

I totally agree with you. I just shiver thinking of how many times some choice I made could have accidentally harmed my children or someone else. Thank goodness mine are grown (chronologically, that is), and have survived relatively unscathed.

I did all kinds of dumb things that I look back with wonder on now. When my oldest was 16 months old, I was putting air in the tire and left him in the car with it running. He climbed out of his carseat which was in front, and put the car in gear. I had to jump into the car to stop it, but not before he rammed into another car. He had a knot on his head from the windshield, and I almost broke my arm. What got me was the owner of the other car saw it happening, and ran out and asked me what I was doing letting my baby drive the car! I just said, " What, you don't?"

My point is, I think that most of us as parents have had some pretty WTH moments, but we were lucky enough that no tragedy befell us.

My heart breaks for this and the other families that have had this and other tragedies happen to them. I couldn't go on. I just know it, and those that do, are stronger than me.

 

[Brefie]

From what I've read, they didn't FORGET the kid. Each thought the other had taken care of the child.

A lot of good points have been brought up, pro and con, but especially about some type of warning device. That is an excellent idea if it's somehow attached to the car seat.

I wonder at the people who are so against the parents. Do any of you think the parents misunderstood on purpose, that they wanted to kill their child? Have none of you made any mistakes that possibly could have cost serious injury and/or death to someone? Does the fact that some else made a mistake you never made make you a better person? Don't accidents just happen anymore, must someone always be held accountable?

There's a lot of food for thought here.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I could not agree more. Nobody FORGOT anything.....this is NOT FORGETTING YOUR CHILD. These parents probably whole-heartedly agree with those posters who said they can't fathom a parent 'forgetting' their child.

If I type the words 'tragic accident', we can all read it and will probably all agree on the meaning. There is a reason for this, it's because they sometimes occur.

 

[angelmom]

2sisters - I am right there with you, I'd love to stay home with my kids too. However, there are not more working moms today, than there were in 1995- my sister worked, my mother work, heck - BOTH of my grandmothers worked, & they were all moms. My point is, before 1995, these cases were mostly unheard of. What has changed is the fact that all these millions of babies are riding in the back seat, and every year 30 - 40 of them are forgotten. Parents need to come up with a system - they should teach it in the hospital, the same way they teach you not to shake your baby. Or, to put the baby in a car seat, in the back seat, facing backwards. Or that breastmilk is best, yada yada yada. One more service announcement for a new parent to watch would not hurt.

Another thing that has changed, to be fair, is the internet. In 1995 even, we would never have heard of this case outside our metro area. Do you think kids didn't crawl into hot cars a long time ago? Of course they did. We just didn't have 24/7/365 news coverage that had to fill time.

Stories from my own family from years and years ago tell me that this is not a new phenomenon. We just know more now. And, of course, now there is always someone to blame.

 

[montana_16]

SeriouslySearching: Glad someone else has the good sense to see this for what it actually is. When a doctor "gets distracted" and amputates the wrong body part, that is considered to be negligence. If a nurse should have rendered an established standard of care to a patient and the nurse fails to render that care and the patient is harmed (or even if the patient is not harmed!), the nurse is guilty of negligence. And the pharmacist who "gets busy" and fills a prescription incorrectly. And the plumber who installs a water heater incorrectly and it later blows up..... And so on, and so on, and so on.

I think the phrase "it was a tragic accident" is being used far too frequently regarding this type of incident when, in fact, the trutch of the matter is that the parent or parents were out and out negligent in regard to another human being who was in their care.

Public service announcements to REMIND people they have given birth to a child and they have a responsibility to care for that child??? Okay, I guess if that's what it takes.

The posters who are putting out these suggestions are not condoning what's happening, but trying to think of ways to save future babies lives.

 

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

Another thing that has changed, to be fair, is the internet. In 1995 even, we would never have heard of this case outside our metro area. Do you think kids didn't crawl into hot cars a long time ago? Of course they did. We just didn't have 24/7/365 news coverage that had to fill time.

Stories from my own family from years and years ago tell me that this is not a new phenomenon. We just know more now. And, of course, now there is always someone to blame.

ITA with you. I haven't heard of any in my area so then I would know about the 30-40 that I do today. Its tragic all around. At least now there IS coverage and it gives us all a second thought.

 

[JBean]

2sisters - I am right there with you, I'd love to stay home with my kids too. However, there are not more working moms today, than there were in 1995- my sister worked, my mother work, heck - BOTH of my grandmothers worked, & they were all moms. My point is, before 1995, these cases were mostly unheard of. What has changed is the fact that all these millions of babies are riding in the back seat, and every year 30 - 40 of them are forgotten. Parents need to come up with a system - they should teach it in the hospital, the same way they teach you not to shake your baby. Or, to put the baby in a car seat, in the back seat, facing backwards. Or that breastmilk is best, yada yada yada. One more service announcement for a new parent to watch would not hurt.

I had my babies in the early 80's and we had our kids in car seats in the back seat then.

 

[LovingTheChaos]

I had my babies in the early 80's and we had our kids in car seats in the back seat then.

You may have Jbean, but many didn't. My nieces were born in 88 & 91, & both of them were in the passenger front seat as infants.

My sister, who was born in 73 used to sleep in the back window of the Pontiac Grand Prix my mother drove...

 

[JBean]

You may have Jbean, but many didn't. My nieces were born in 88 & 91, & both of them were in the passenger front seat as infants.

My sister, who was born in 73 used to sleep in the back window of the Pontiac Grand Prix my mother drove...

I can only speak to the prevailing trend here at the time.
We were taught to put them in the middle back seat as the safest spot in the car.
There were generally no air bags in the front passenger seat, so we could put them there, but very few people did, around here I mean.

ETA: a popular item was the "rear view mirror" on the back window so we could see them in our rear view mirror. It was big. Is that something people still use these days? It was great.

 

[Amraann]

MY daughter was born in 1989. The law then in Florida was the Car seat in the Back seat.

Maybe people did not follow it but it was the law.
Car seat in the back seat. (facing rear when they were infants was just beginning to be an issue)
I know my mother had friends who would not put their children in car seats... Ari (my daughter) was in one until the 3rd week of kindergarten as that is what the law required by weight and age. (just so happened to be her 3rd week of school)

Any parent who ignored this was just ignorant. If I knew it at 18 with a baby then any one should have.

 

[Saffron]

I wonder at the people who are so against the parents. Do any of you think the parents misunderstood on purpose, that they wanted to kill their child? Have none of you made any mistakes that possibly could have cost serious injury and/or death to someone? Does the fact that some else made a mistake you never made make you a better person? Don't accidents just happen anymore, must someone always be held accountable?

These situations occur too frequently, and every time they happen I hear so much understanding in the public arena. Yet, as I've already stated, I don't understand how anyone can forget that their baby is in the car (or, as in this case, not know which parent has the baby with them). The baby ends up forgotten, alone for hours, dying a horrible death. And I feel angry because the baby suffers so greatly while dying. I hate these stories, and they are truly unbelievable to me.

 

[kgeaux]

You may have Jbean, but many didn't. My nieces were born in 88 & 91, & both of them were in the passenger front seat as infants.

My sister, who was born in 73 used to sleep in the back window of the Pontiac Grand Prix my mother drove...

Wow. Where do your neices live? I'm only asking because I live in a place commonly known to be a backwater, last to catch on to anything area....but it sounds like your neices may live in an even MORE backwater area than me! And that is something I didn't know was possible!

My oldest son was born in 1981, and the hospital would not release newly born infants to the parents unless the baby was going into a 'rear facing, middle of the back seat' car seat. I'm in LOUISIANA, known for being behind on EVERYTHING, but in 1981 we were already obligated to provide proper car seats for our babies.

By 1991, I wouldn't have thought there was a person in usa who thought it was appropriate to have an infant in the passenger front seat-----it had been over a decade of knowing that rear middle was the safest position, PLUS the introduction of airbags make the front passenger seat an incredibly dangerous position for a child seat.

 

[JBean]

Wow. Where do your neices live? I'm only asking because I live in a place commonly known to be a backwater, last to catch on to anything area....but it sounds like your neices may live in an even MORE backwater area than me! And that is something I didn't know was possible!

My oldest son was born in 1981, and the hospital would not release newly born infants to the parents unless the baby was going into a 'rear facing, middle of the back seat' car seat. I'm in LOUISIANA, known for being behind on EVERYTHING, but in 1981 we were already obligated to provide proper car seats for our babies.

By 1991, I wouldn't have thought there was a person in usa who thought it was appropriate to have an infant in the passenger front seat-----it had been over a decade of knowing that rear middle was the safest position, PLUS the introduction of airbags make the front passenger seat an incredibly dangerous position for a child seat.

This is how it was here also Kgeaux. A nurse would walk out of the hospital in the early 80's and make certain your child was in the proper car seat. At the time I had all my children I didn't know anyone that didn't use a car seat. I am quite certain it was the law.
When I grew up in the 60's we were not restrained at all, but that evolved during the 70's and was certainly a part of life in the 80's as much as it is now.

 

[indallas2]

This is sad!! It seems tragedies like this are not from abusive parent. I can't imagine what they are feeling. If there was a change in their routine schedule I can kind of understand the confusion, but still, how do you not know your baby is with you? If that was the vehicle in the picture, it's very hard not to notice. It's possible for a sleeping baby to be overlooked in a SUV, and down here dark tinted windows do make it easy to overlook things in the car.

I've always wondered the same thing.

Even though my son is now 11, I ALWAYS look towards the backseat of the car when I'm getting out of it and shutting the door, even when I'm alone in the car, it's a habit - it's hard not to look. I guess I don't understand being as RUSHED as some people seem to be.

Very sad!!

 

[LovingTheChaos]

Wow. Where do your neices live? I'm only asking because I live in a place commonly known to be a backwater, last to catch on to anything area....but it sounds like your neices may live in an even MORE backwater area than me! And that is something I didn't know was possible!

My oldest son was born in 1981, and the hospital would not release newly born infants to the parents unless the baby was going into a 'rear facing, middle of the back seat' car seat. I'm in LOUISIANA, known for being behind on EVERYTHING, but in 1981 we were already obligated to provide proper car seats for our babies.

By 1991, I wouldn't have thought there was a person in usa who thought it was appropriate to have an infant in the passenger front seat-----it had been over a decade of knowing that rear middle was the safest position, PLUS the introduction of airbags make the front passenger seat an incredibly dangerous position for a child seat.

Hey kgeaux! - My nieces were born in Houston, Tx. They did have to have a rear facing car seat & may have been in the back when they left the hospital, but when my sister was driving them anywhere, they were generally in the front seat. This is sadly why so many infants were killed with the advent of airbags - rear facing car seats & airbags are deadly, & unfortunatly people didn't get the message until a few infants were killed that this was a bad idea.

ETA - BTW - my sister always drove older model cars, & never would have had a car with a drivers airbag, much less a passenger airbag in those days. She was po. She couldn't afford the 'or' she was so poor

Also - I can remember seeing many, especially immigrants with their babies riding without a car seat at all back then,

 

[Dena]

They do still have the mirrors for cars. I had one when my son was a baby. It attaches to the back of the car so you can see your rear facing baby through your rear view mirror.

Onto the "incident", I still don't get it and never will. Yes, I've made mistakes, we all have, but I will never understand how this continues to happen. Even in this case, where is the communication between the parents? My husband and I have a ritual and I call him when I drop my son off and we chat for a while. He always asks me how our son was when I dropped him off and if he's in a good mood today. I know this may not be the norm, but in a lot of these cases there is no communication between the parents. Maybe that's the underlying problem.
As for divorce, yes, if my husband did something like this, he would be more than divorced from me. May be harsh, but I'm sorry, that's how I feel.
We're supposed to worry about child predators, rapists, and all the monsters in the world, not forgetting your kid in a damn car.

I do feel bad for these parents because losing a child is never easy whether you're at fault or not. All I'm saying is I don't get it. Never ever ever will I get it.

 

[LovingTheChaos]

Dena - I agree, if my husband did something like this, I could never get past it.
I have a 10 month old, he rides in the middle back seat of my minivan, & we have a large mirror installed so I can see him. He is quite cute, he can see himself in that mirror as well...

 

[Kim Ii]

These situations occur too frequently, and every time they happen I hear so much understanding in the public arena. Yet, as I've already stated, I don't understand how anyone can forget that their baby is in the car (or, as in this case, not know which parent has the baby with them). The baby ends up forgotten, alone for hours, dying a horrible death. And I feel angry because the baby suffers so greatly while dying. I hate these stories, and they are truly unbelievable to me.
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I have to say, I feel the same was as Saffron. I just cannot imagine FORGETTING MY BABY is in the car!! I realize I may sound incredibly sensitive, but I just don't get it. Your entire life changes when you've just had a baby -- I totally understand how chaotic things can get, as well. Newbie parents are tired, cranky, irritable -- I get that. I can remember when our baby was just a few days old -- he didn't sleep, AT ALL. My husband, bless his heart, would get up with me, even when it wasn't his turn to do a feeding. I didn't have breast milk, so this one particular evening, I got up to heat up the bottle and when it was ready, I asked hubby to bring Ryan into the living room so I could feed. On THREE SEPARATE OCCASIONS, my husband came out of our bedroom, cradling what he thought was a baby in his arms, but the baby wasn't there. My husband was so out of it, he didn't realize he didn't have the baby! I had to send him back to our bedroom two more times, before, finally, he came out with Ryan.

So...yes, I can understand how dreadfully tired and forgetful one can become after you've had a new baby. Your entire world is turned upside down. But yet, if you are that forgetful that you can't even remember you have a baby in your car...then something's dreadfully wrong.

I know this is happening to really good people. But good grief...I guess these parents need to slow down, perhaps organize themselves a little bit better, take time to realize you've got precious cargo that needs your FULL attention -- ALL THE TIME.

I am a compassionate person...really, I am. But I am really having a hard time understanding this one...