MO MO - St Louis, BlkFem 8-11, 54UFMO, in abandoned bldg, Feb'83 #2

[iamshadow21]

I've never heard of little Christmas doe, she is on Othrams Radar though.

Her thread is kind of heartbreaking. The lengths her killer went to to hide her, all the layers of wrapping. The guy who found her, big burly outdoorsy guy, in floods of tears (I hope, sincerely, he got therapy). There are several different reconstructions. I'm partial to the one that looks like it was drawn in chalk pastels, because I like that 'style' of reconstruction, it's just lovely, like something you'd commission of your kid and hang on a wall or give to the grandparents.

But yeah, to bring this back vaguely on topic. My wishlist is, IDs for Babygirl St Louis, Christmas Doe, Peaches and her baby, The Boy in the Box, Swimsuit Boy, and Madison Doe. Finding baby Quinton, Quanne Diec. Catching the Long Island Serial Killer. I'm putting in my order for Christmas now! Santa, make it happen!

 

[Ksprincess2]

Her thread is kind of heartbreaking. The lengths her killer went to to hide her, all the layers of wrapping. The guy who found her, big burly outdoorsy guy, in floods of tears (I hope, sincerely, he got therapy). There are several different reconstructions. I'm partial to the one that looks like it was drawn in chalk pastels, because I like that 'style' of reconstruction, it's just lovely, like something you'd commission of your kid and hang on a wall or give to the grandparents.

But yeah, to bring this back vaguely on topic. My wishlist is, IDs for Babygirl St Louis, Christmas Doe, Peaches and her baby, The Boy in the Box, Swimsuit Boy, and Madison Doe. Finding baby Quinton, Quanne Diec. Catching the Long Island Serial Killer. I'm putting in my order for Christmas now! Santa, make it happen!

Is there a thread for Christmas Doe? I searched and didn't find one.

 

[iamshadow21]

Is there a thread for Christmas Doe? I searched and didn't find one.

The case I was talking about is this one:

GA - GA - Ware Co., BlkFem Child 15UFGA, 2-4, in cement-filled suitcase, Dec'88

But there is another Doe with this moniker here:

NC - NC - Northampton Co, Christmas Doe, Blk/WhtFem, UP2196, 4-7, near I-95 rest area, Dec'83

Like Babygirl St Louis, both black girls under ten killed in the '80s, each found in different states of the US. All still unsolved. Whenever you've got the time, if you could read their threads and give them a bump, it'd be great.

 

[Laughing]

I have repeatedly brought this up to Othram, maybe there is an issue with LE, I don't really know how all of this works.

Remember that to involve @othram (or another lab,) LE has to had over evidence of a crime to a private company.

This LE agency may not have the authority to do that.

In several of the cases listed, that evidence is sparse imho -- not much available in the first place, likely not enough to share.

And, every LE agency that I know of is stretched thin without enough resources to Serve & Protect in their areas today. These long-dead victims are indeed our priority, but generally not the priority of LE for obvious reasons.

That's why we love Cold Case groups of retired investigators!

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[fidgeypie]

Remember that to involve @othram (or another lab,) LE has to had over evidence of a crime to a private company.

This LE agency may not have the authority to do that.

In several of the cases listed, that evidence is sparse imho -- not much available in the first place, likely not enough to share.

And, every LE agency that I know of is stretched thin without enough resources to Serve & Protect in their areas today. These long-dead victims are indeed our priority, but generally not the priority of LE for obvious reasons.

That's why we love Cold Case groups of retired investigators!

jmho ymmv lrr

Hi. I thought that might be the case, I wasn't bashing either othram or LE. I dont know how cases end up at genetic genealogy.

 

[iamshadow21]

Remember that to involve @othram (or another lab,) LE has to had over evidence of a crime to a private company.

This LE agency may not have the authority to do that.

In several of the cases listed, that evidence is sparse imho -- not much available in the first place, likely not enough to share.

And, every LE agency that I know of is stretched thin without enough resources to Serve & Protect in their areas today. These long-dead victims are indeed our priority, but generally not the priority of LE for obvious reasons.

That's why we love Cold Case groups of retired investigators!

jmho ymmv lrr

No criticism here! Not today, anyway.

I know there are generations of LE who do care about these Does as much as we do. Especially the kids. You only have to watch something like, say, The Girl in the Picture and see the passion of everyone involved in bringing Suzanne home, and see them living with the failure to locate Michael, how much it means.

But I reserve the right to be frustrated that we live in a world where testing that can identify people who've lain as Does for generations has to essentially be crowdfunded in affluent nations. And I can wish and dream for a tomorrow where the wonderful new techniques and technology being developed is available for all the Does. Especially for St Louis Doe, the reason for this thread. I long for the day I know her name. Usually, with Does, I'm content just knowing they've been IDed. But I want to know her name. I want to see her face, the one her killer took from her.

 

[fidgeypie]

No criticism here! Not today, anyway.

I know there are generations of LE who do care about these Does as much as we do. Especially the kids. You only have to watch something like, say, The Girl in the Picture and see the passion of everyone involved in bringing Suzanne home, and see them living with the failure to locate Michael, how much it means.

But I reserve the right to be frustrated that we live in a world where testing that can identify people who've lain as Does for generations has to essentially be crowdfunded in affluent nations. And I can wish and dream for a tomorrow where the wonderful new techniques and technology being developed is available for all the Does. Especially for St Louis Doe, the reason for this thread. I long for the day I know her name. Usually, with Does, I'm content just knowing they've been IDed. But I want to know her name. I want to see her face, the one her killer took from her.

I totally agree with everything you've said. What gets me about this case is that I was 2/3 years old when this little girl was found, she was only a few years older than me, her poor short life and death must have been terrifying, the abuse she suffered at the hands of the person who did this and is maybe still walking the streets. She has no justice. She should have children, grandchildren maybe. She should have a name!!!!! Is there no one out there who is missing this little girl

 

[iamshadow21]

I totally agree with everything you've said. What gets me about this case is that I was 2/3 years old when this little girl was found, she was only a few years older than me, her poor short life and death must have been terrifying, the abuse she suffered at the hands of the person who did this and is maybe still walking the streets. She has no justice. She should have children, grandchildren maybe. She should have a name!!!!! Is there no one out there who is missing this little girl

We're a similar age, I was under two.

It's the long unidentified kids that really get to me. An adult can choose to walk out of their life. A child has no such agency. So for them to be missing this long, with no one asking why, then, it's not just a parent or siblings or a whole extended family, it's neighbours, it's school teachers, it's paediatricians, it's babysitters, it's social workers, it's people at church or at sports... none of these people questioning the disappearance of a very young child. Or if they do question, it's not put together for such a long time with these poor babies thrown out like garbage. It's easier to believe a story that CPS took them, that they were sent to live with family, that they moved away, that they ran away, that they did anything but die.

 

[Nancy Drew RN]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of law enforcement coming forward to say that they're NOT doing genetic genealogy. There's been a few cases recently where that was unknown or little publicized until an identification was announced. I could see that being particularly true in a case like this where it's very likely that identifying her would point the finger to a suspect, assuming this girl was never reported missing and is genuinely 8-11 years old. Genetic genealogy can be especially challenging with non-white UIDs, too, so it could really drag out.

 

[fidgeypie]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of law enforcement coming forward to say that they're NOT doing genetic genealogy. There's been a few cases recently where that was unknown or little publicized until an identification was announced. I could see that being particularly true in a case like this where it's very likely that identifying her would point the finger to a suspect, assuming this girl was never reported missing and is genuinely 8-11 years old. Genetic genealogy can be especially challenging with non-white UIDs, too, so it could really drag out.

I hope your right

 

[breachtones]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of law enforcement coming forward to say that they're NOT doing genetic genealogy. There's been a few cases recently where that was unknown or little publicized until an identification was announced. I could see that being particularly true in a case like this where it's very likely that identifying her would point the finger to a suspect, assuming this girl was never reported missing and is genuinely 8-11 years old. Genetic genealogy can be especially challenging with non-white UIDs, too, so it could really drag out.

STL LE have done genetic genealogy before so I don't see why they wouldn't? They surely have funding, we give far too much money to law enforcement already. I honestly don't know how else this would be solved, seeing as no one has come forth in decades.

 

[fidgeypie]

STL LE have done genetic genealogy before so I don't see why they wouldn't? They surely have funding, we give far too much money to law enforcement already. I honestly don't know how else this would be solved, seeing as no one has come forth in decades.

The longer this continues the more likely the perpetrator dies and no justice for precious hope

 

[DS2021]

There's been a few cases recently where that was unknown or little publicized until an identification was announced. I

That is what I personally believe is happening w this case. LE seems really focused on solving this case. That's just MOO tho. Obviously I have no idea what is going on behind the scenes.

 

[priv8eye]

CeCe Moore and Parabon have been involved for years.

 

[cyberpanda]

I just learned that the Boy in the Box has been identified after over 60 years thanks to forensic genealogy. This gives me hope that this girl will finally be identified soon, it's only a matter of time!

 

[Springrain]

Praying so hard that our little St. Louis girl can be identified and get justice soon.

 

[Triss]

I just learned that the Boy in the Box has been identified after over 60 years thanks to forensic genealogy. This gives me hope that this girl will finally be identified soon, it's only a matter of time!

Yes! I hope she's next. And I REALLY want to see her killer(s) in prison.

 

[Sweetluv]

Checking in..

 

[DS2021]

I'm hoping this will be the last year she is without her identity.

 

[Ladyotm]

For what my opinion may be worth:

The girl's identity is the key to the killer.

This was probably a young man, no older than 35, somebody this girl wouldn't feel uneasy about being alone with. Maybe good looking and charming.

Neither lived in the area but he was familiar, and absconded with her from wherever they were at the first good opportunity.

He wanted her to be found at least eventually.

Whoever she lived with knew what happened to her when the story broke nationally and did not come forward.

The killer never did anything like this before and probably never has since.

With all the possible places she may have lived in her life, perhaps she was a military child. Did something happen to her parent(s) and she went to live with someone else? And a male in that household killed her. Being that the killer was a "true" relative, the person responsible for her care did not report her missing, the crime, or anything else they knew. Sad all around.