MO MO - St Louis, BlkFem 8-11, 54UFMO, in abandoned bldg, Feb'83

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by Dexter Mills, Oct 10, 2005.

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  1. lieber32

    lieber32 Verified Expert

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    As a civilian LE person of the SLMPD (not sure if ever verified here but did speak to Theresa from work, was a busy week for me) I think many here don't understand the social realities of many african americans in this city. I have lived in the city of saint louis for over seven years and it is this case that brought me to websleuths and other such sites. I have pointed out that many african american youths do not attend school regularly (live a block from peabodys and sometimes get days of such as unpaid DH's and sick bonus days and have always been amazed how many kids that should be in school aren't). Also know from reading local media how awful kept records are of school attendance (plus articles from Saint Louis Post Dispatch about youths that should me in school heckling people on metro link )and also from my job as I've had to put on more then a few background checks trauncy (parent mine you not kids as they are juveniles and their records are closed). On top of this we get a few mothers with kids with serious warrents that we have to call to be arrested, the police will stall for a few hours to get someone to pick kids up so they would not have to call child services but a few times no one was able to pick up kids. My background leads me to believe this child like many in this city don't attend school regularly enough to go missing.
     


  2. Ambercat

    Ambercat Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that home schooling became a trend until later in the US. I tried to look for statistics about it on the web, but wasn't really able. I e-mailed a home school advocacy group and asked. I'll let you know if they provide any more information.
     
  3. Ambercat

    Ambercat Well-Known Member

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    That's so incredibly sad. Even if that is the case, she must have had family or friends (or at least acquaintances?) who would notice if she wasn't around and possibly contact LE to inquire if the body found was her?
     
  4. rpipergirl

    rpipergirl proud owner Kidmissing

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  5. Imperfect Harmony

    Imperfect Harmony New Member

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    I didn't think so either, but it was just a thought. I will admit that my last two posts were just throwing things out there, in hopes that something might help.
     
  6. SyraKelly

    SyraKelly Active Member

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    I think of this little girl often..I always check to see if they indentified her and found her killer..what a monster that did this!!!
     
  7. tierneysain

    tierneysain New Member

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    I was 15 I remember this when it happened and seen it on the news and I still think this little girl was sold for drugs. I wonder how far back the Whirl newspaper went and if it went prior to this killing her mother or father was probably shamed in it at one point. You never know. Just checked and the Evening Whirl started in 1938. I think detective posted add, but if you sell your own kid for drugs I don't think ya would turn yourself in! Who knows.
     
  8. marycarney

    marycarney Inactive

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    As far as homeschooling - highly unlikely. I started in 1987 - and at that time there were actually men IMPRISONED for homeschooling their children in MI and ND. It was very much outside the mainstream in '87, much less four years earlier.

    What an awful case. OH, another thought about the tag in the sweater - I routinely cut/ rip the tags out of clothing because they bother me. Did it on a lot of my children's things too.
     
  9. lieber32

    lieber32 Verified Expert

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    I'm not from the saint louis area but have lived here for several years and when I question the local people on this case they are very evasive with me. Would like to hear what you have to say as a native of the Saint Louis area. I work for the slmpd and even they are evasive with me (to be honest can't say its because they know anything, we have a few old timers but I'm sure they have seen a lot, I know I have in my limited time with the police department). This case brought me to websleuths and I can still remember seeing unaltered photo of her in a book I checked out at library when researching historic buildings in St.Louis. Know the history of the area she disappeared from but have no way of locating the report because its on microfilm without suspect, cause number or a name (hence shes a jane doe) to find. What you remember would be greatly appreciated.
     
  10. lieber32

    lieber32 Verified Expert

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    I'm not a st.louis native but have lived in the city for several years. This case brought me to websleuths. Never heard of Whirl does it still exist? Where can I get it if it does?. Locals are very evasive about this case, would be interested in hearing what you remember. Learned about this case while researching historic buildings (live in Soulard/Benton park Neighborhood in a building over 100 yrs old). The picture was very graphic and not all cleaned up (some of the ones you find on the web are much less graphic). Know a lot about the neighborhoods history, its graphic as well (kid being mulled by dog and killed, dead prostitute found in nearby park which a fellow co-worker servered on jury). Even through I work for the slmpd not able to find out much info (without suspect, cause number or name of victim very difficult). Due to my current employment and the history of neighborhood she was found would not discount your theory. As someone that was not from area and not around at time, very interested in what you remember.
     
  11. tierneysain

    tierneysain New Member

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    I know the area was a middle class white neighborhood in the maybe 40's and 50's My friends mom actually lived in the building. I know that at the time of the killing a white person would not have been able to drive or walk through the neighborhood without some unwanted attention. I remember a story about a man and woman who were in trouble for a missing child. The man went to prison and the Girlfriend either wouldn't talk or died later of drugs (don't quote me on that, rumors when I was a kid). This was not the Kansas City couple, this was a couple from Saint Louis. The story might be in this post somewhere. I do know over the years this area has been used as a dumping ground. Once again, little white girl killed in Bridgeton was dumped in North City, her killer was a black man, she was not killed in the area. This child could have come from Kinloch, Ferguson, Berkley, Jennings, Normandy. I am making a trip to City Library and try to find Original reports.
     
  12. tierneysain

    tierneysain New Member

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    I grew up as a kid in Ferguson 70's and 80's and anything north of Ferguson was considered North City and at the time I was 12 and up you did not go into those neighborhoods, if you did you were looking for trouble and would probably end up finding it. Going down North Hanley and heading towards U-City was probably not a good idea at the time, City is very Marginal, one street could be okay the next a whole new world. When I first started Driving I was chased down Chouteau by an angry mob. I just thought it was because I was white. I was generation of desegregation and knew alot of african american kids from the inner city and some very nice people, I guess my point is it would have had to be someone who could come and go in an all black neighborhood at the time and no one would think a thing. There is no way at the time a white man could have walked in there and not drawn attention to himself.
     
  13. tierneysain

    tierneysain New Member

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    The Whirl, was originally the Evening Whirl and the reporting early in the day was mugshots and very strong poetic stories using kinda toilet humor. Hard to explain. This was a paper started by I believe an African American in the area, the paper still exists I believe under another name. I am currently trying to research and see if I can get archives around the time frame. Very interesting paper you would probably want to see. As far as people in the area being evasive probably did not respond and still don't kindly to police. I always wonder if in the crime scene photos if the person is in the crowd they show around the building as police bring this poor kids body out. I have lived in South City now for about 20 years and can tell you the Schools have gotten worse, because they were even no good at the time I was in school in the county, so this child may never have even been on the radar, I know people now who are white and lived in the city and did not even go, couldn't afford private and did not want to attend city, terrible schools. Having said that, this kids someone gave birth to, she has to have cousin, grandparents, friends who remember someone never coming back, it is mind boggling.
     
  14. tierneysain

    tierneysain New Member

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    I found websites I want to post for the Evening Whirl, but don't know how. Got to the Believer.com and has a good history of the Evening Whirl or just google for Saint Louis and I believe you will find it. I also found a website for City Library has put almost all local papers online going back to the 1880's, will try my luck there. I am a little handicapped with this trying to post links, sorry.
     
  15. mtrooper

    mtrooper Verified SAR

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    I have been lurking a while and I had a couple of thoughts.

    Here is an article on Nikole Betterson (I know that she has been mentioned before, but does anyone know if she is actually excluded?):

    http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/1998/jun/15/a-double-suicide-deepens-20-year-mystery-of-vanish/

    It appears that Nikole's Maternal grand parents are still around, why not get mitochondrial DNA to check against Jane Doe?

    BTW-There is DNA in NAMUS for the Jane Doe. (probably already knew that, just wanted to mention it)

    I am sure LE has done this, but what came of the rape kit from the sexual assult? I have to think there would be DNA some where on that poor girl.

    On a possibly related side note. There was a brutal murder up in northern Michigan on January 19th, 1983. Some similarities. She was not beheaded.

    http://www.isisdefense.us/Janette_Roberson.html

    I also tend to agree that serial killers don't normally stray outside of one race. But on that note I am off to do some research.
     
  16. ValerieKay

    ValerieKay New Member

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    I just read the whole thread, and something keeps popping in my head. Whenever I hear about a child this age being murdered or going missing in the St. Louis area, I think of Michael Devlin. I realize there is no evidence he ever killed anyone, but he is suspected of having abducted many more kids than we know about. Scott Kleeschulte and Bianca Piper to name two.
    So if he did take those kids (and more), where are they now? Also, I know this is chilling to think about, but was he really going to keep Shawn Hornbeck and Ben Ownby around forever? My point is that I believe he has killed in the past and was planning to again. Maybe it's a long shot, but again this is immediately where my mind goes anytime something happens to a child in St. Louis. :(
     
  17. tierneysain

    tierneysain New Member

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    I am gonna look and see if there is anything on her being matched. I thought that one was kinda interesting also.
     
  18. tierneysain

    tierneysain New Member

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    I justed watched the documentary on Shawn Hornbeck and he did an interview and you are correct, he said Devlin took him to a secluded place to strangle him and Shawn talked him into letting him live. This kid is truly a survivor because he was meant to die according to his own words.
     
  19. ValerieKay

    ValerieKay New Member

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    I forgot all about that. Also when Devlin abducted Ben Ownby, I think Shawn realized Ben was his replacement and Shawn wouldn't be there much longer.
     
  20. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Devlin was into pre-teen Caucasian males. To echo mtrooper's comments above - generally, predators have a "type" that they target, so in that respect, I can't see him targeting a pre-teen black female.
     
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