Match! MO - St Louis Co., WhtFem UP5294, 31-35, below scenic lookout, Aug'90 *Cynthia Day*

Discussion in 'Identified!' started by chaddylex, Dec 30, 2009.

  1. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    I agree with suggesting getting the media involved. There is no good reason for LE to keep putting this off and not calling her back. I'm sure she has contacted the coroners office who needs input from LE in order to move forward with collecting DNA to get the ball rolling here. Perhaps some media attention will get LE off their butts and to assist this family. I hope so.

    Thank you for keeping us updated. this is frustrating that LE is so uninterested in checking the possible match.

    Keeping the family in our prayers.
     


  2. Billylee

    Billylee New Member

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    I think the handling of this JD and now the handling of the request of Cynthia's daughters is absurd. When the girls first called, they were told there was no such "unidentified body". Then Cynthia's daughters DNA they had given was "misplaced". I think that a reporter would definitely be able to find a storyline in here somewhere.

    I do not understand them not returning her calls. That's just plain rude. I think they are probably dragging their feet on the dentals because they've already submitted the DNA to TX (2/26/10).

    I don't think they'd drag their feet if was their mother they were trying to find!
     
  3. chaddylex

    chaddylex Verified Insider

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    I agree with you Billylee, you know if it were their mother, they would move this testing right along.

    I received another email from Cynthia's daughter last night and she said that she is going to call LE first this this morning...

    I mentioned to her that if she gets no response from LE that she should get some type of media involved, maybe this will get the ball rolling, I don't know what else to offer to her.

    It took how long for the Missouri Highway Patrol to respond to my emails, but I kept being persistent.. now it's out of their hands. The LE that Cynthia's family is dealing with is in Bowling Green Missouri where the UID was actually found.

    This run around with the dentals, DNA.. etc has been going on since February and is really crazy...

    As far as LE saying their was no unidentifed body, they had it hidden in a research lab at the University of Colorado all of this time!!!
     
  4. Mensch

    Mensch Former Member

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    Do I understand this correctly in that LE found a deceased unidentified body and they simply turned it over to 'research' and do not want anyone knowing who this person is or if death is result of some crime?

    If there is a missing person and the family thinks it could be their family member, all they have to do is request it be investigated. From what I learned of the Day case years ago is that she is voluntary missing and there is no crime but if there is a possible match it will be investigated. This is the way all the MP/UP cases work and no one is hiding anything on this case. It is just that LE has far more info than the public on all cases and sometimes family does not want to accept what they have.

    So if there is a possible match, just like all other cases here, sleuthers simply turn it in and get feed back. If there is no possible match it is listed as ruled out. Why would LE hold ONE case and keep it secret? Anyone wanting answers has only to review the case - start to now, along with all involved and you will see why none of this makes sense.
    It would be wonderful to see all these cases resolved.
    :twocents:
    Who exactly is the secret UP? I am trying to figure out what could be a reasonable explanation here.
    In your initial post there is a possible you show on NamUS which has dentals. So since Day was reported to have one missing tooth prior to leaving, she can be ruled out as the one on NamUs because those teeth were determined by ME to be missing postmortem. Do you have another possible match we can look at?
     
  5. chaddylex

    chaddylex Verified Insider

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    I guess from what I was told that they had it at the University of Colorado so they could make a facial reconstruction, but heck they held onto it for 20 yrs? Seriously...

    I have saved some of the emails Cynthia's daughter has sent me.. Here is a snip of what she said back in February
    ..There was a facial reconstruction done on the skull and the hair is mothers color... My mother broke her tailbone while giving birth to me and I do believe the officer advised that it did have a cracked pelvis... Soooooooo many similarities. It disgusts us to think that we suffered all these years searching high and low and the body has been sitting in some research lab!

    I pray everyday that this will be the day that they receive the news that is Cynthia or it is not! This family deserves closure!
     
  6. Mensch

    Mensch Former Member

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    I sent the case investigator an email to find out how one person was ruled out on the UP you have listed in your first post. I also asked if Cynthia Day was submitted and what the status is on that case. So if I understand you, they Day family has been waiting 20 years to have only ONE UP looked at as a potential?
    Are yoiu saying the UP you listed in your first post is the one thay have been hiding/holding for 20 years?
     
  7. Mensch

    Mensch Former Member

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    Just trying to clear up some confusion regarding the Day MP case.
    Someone posted this info (see below). If this was a family member was the ID confirmed as is the policy at WS?

    The above info is incorrect. Tracy Lehman is indeed the case manager and the page info has not been removed and is still verifiable on NamUS.
    Le is not required to be involved in a voluntary missing person case. All evidence and witnesses points to a woman who left of her own free will and was last seen getting into a cross country truck, as in tractor trailer.

    There has been no evidence of foul play so that is why the police are not pursuing it or have an active open case. It is not a crime to be an adult and missing.

    The only thing LE is responsible for now is to take a tip or lead on a possible UP to have compared to the missing person Day. They will, without hesitation take DNA and dentals and turn them over to the investigative agency who has the UP for comparison. This is the extent of their accountability. Should a comparison be made and the UP turns out to be the MP, LE will be notified and they will clear any missing person reports.

    The UP listed in the first post her as being a 'possible' can be ruled out as Day because of the full body scan (no broken pelvis or coccyx (tail bone) and because of the missing tooth reported on Day which was not on the UP until postmortem.

    If there is a time delay on DNA, due to back log of cases the family is absolutely notified of the reason and possible time frame. There is more but really not necessary to put out for public speculation. Again, anyone interested can trace the events of this case since the time Day left.
     
  8. chaddylex

    chaddylex Verified Insider

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    This UID has never been compared to Cynthia's mother according to her daughter... The UID has been in the research lab for a long time... They just listed the UID in Namus last year.


    If you contacted Tracey Lehmen from the Missouri Highway Patrol, it is out of her hands now. We were in contact for awhile, until she had Cynthia's family meet with the Bowling Green MO PD.

    As far as Tiffany Sessions being listed as a rule out on this UID Namus page, she is listed on a lot of UID's pages...

    Here is a quote from Carl K about Tiffany Sessions being listed on UID's...
    So with that being said, Tiffany might have not even been compared..
     
  9. chaddylex

    chaddylex Verified Insider

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    This was Cynthia's daughter who posted what I bolded!!!!We submitted DNA to them last night am we're now waiting to hear back from them. The case manager that was listed as Tracey Lehman on the UID case is no longer available. The info has been completely removed from the site. BTW, we think you're on to something

    Tracey Lehmen was in charge of the case at first, we had numerous emails back and forth and then in February he name was taken off the Namus page... I see that it is back on now....

    Cynthia's family met with the Bowling Green PD and I showed you from an above email what was said straight from Cynthia's daughter...

    As Cynthia's family has said, it is unlike her to just disapper....
     
  10. Mensch

    Mensch Former Member

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    BBM

    Tracy Lehmen is the current case manager.
    https://identifyus.org/cases/full_report/5294

    See the statement below regarding the Day DNA:
    They cannot "run it through" any data base until or unless it is typed, which this clearly indicates it has been. So when there is a UP which could be a possible match, then the DNA is compared to it, assuming the UP has DNA. If not, the full body scans, the fact Day had a missing tooth can be used as a rule out.
    http://www.nowpublic.com/world/help-find-cynthia-day
    As to the ruled out names on NamUS. Sometimes, more often than not, LE will NOT know of the submission until someone brings it to their attentiion by submitting to them as well as NamUS or if it is a match and the ME lets LE know.
    So If I have a possible match and submit it to NamUS and do not let LE know, then they will not know as NamUS does not let LE know if someone was "suggested" and it did not pan out.
     
  11. chaddylex

    chaddylex Verified Insider

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    If Cynthia's has been ruled out then they should have contacted her family...

    I have sent an email to Tracey Lehmen to see if she was actually ruled out. I will tell Cynthia's daughter to contact her also even though she was redirected to Bowling Green PD
     
  12. Mensch

    Mensch Former Member

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    I sent Tracy an email also. I asked if they could make a photo available to the public of the earings. I don't know that she would have access to these but it doesn't hurt to try.

    The hardest thing but most important lesson to learn in searching for the missing is that sometimes the family knows the circumstances and does not want documented proof of fact. I am not saying this is the case here, but worth mentioning anyway because anyone who has done a fair amount of research on this one knows there is far more to it than LE sloppy or non-caring work. Sad but true. If someone is 'missing' that is more acceptable in many cases than knowing they left because they wanted to. We all create a world to our liking to a degree and resist anything that does not fit our reality. No disrespect meant here as I am not saying this is the case.
    I want nothing more in this case than to see the Day family have closure. May it be soon.
    I will let you know if I hear anything from Tracy.
    Alll the above MHO
     
  13. chaddylex

    chaddylex Verified Insider

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    I do not know the circumstances of Cynthia's life before she went missing, only what has been released to the public. I just thought I had a possible match and I ran with it. Another Websleuth member contacted the family and received some more information and that is how we became into contact.

    I am not giving up hope for this family, not until I hear the Jane Doe is defintely ruled out... Maybe I am too optimistic...


    Let's hope we hear something soon!
     
  14. Billylee

    Billylee New Member

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    We don't, any of us, know the circumstances of either the UID's death, nor Cynthia's disappearance. There's an old saying "if you didn't hold the lantern, then you don't know what happened."

    So, that being said, let's stick to the issue. We are trying to help a family find out if this UID could possibly be their mother. That's it. They have run up against many obstacles and delays. Mistakes can and have been made as far as autopsy reports go, DNA doesn't lie. And since this is the second time this family have given DNA let's pray it doesn't get lost or whatever and this possible match can either be confirmed or denied. Crossing my fingers for them!
     
  15. Mensch

    Mensch Former Member

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    There is no lost DNA. I addressed the issue as straight on as possible while trying to maintain a bit of respect for the victims of this case. All of them. Sorry is it was not understood.
    Your optimism is inspiring. ;) Here's hoping for a speedy resolution.
     
  16. Brassband

    Brassband New Member

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    Thanks Mensch for trying to clarify. I’m just a little slow. What does “trying to run that through our database” mean? Does that mean they ran the family DNA through already and didn’t get any hits, so they wait a year and re-run it again in case there are any more new UID’s? Also, Do we know for certain that NamUs #5294 has her DNA in the database? Because I didn’t see any boxes checked on the DNA section of the case listing. Thanks again. You are a wealth of information.
     
  17. chaddylex

    chaddylex Verified Insider

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    Thanks Billylee for your post!

    This is just a messed up case as far as I am concerned. If the DNA was already compared, entered or whatever all of these conflicting reports are, then why aren't they being honest with the family... They need to get on with their lives!

    Cynthia's daughters went viewed different pieces of evidence that were found with the UID (earrings and a few other things) and they believe they were her mother..

    I'm sorry, I usually don't have a gut feeling about things... but I am almost positive this is her... like Billylee has said, DNA doesn't lie, I guess time will tell. I will be VERY suprised if it isn't her...
     
  18. Mensch

    Mensch Former Member

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    Maybe the spokesperson made a poor choice in words. He could have meant hoping to find a match rather than trying to find a match. I cannot second guess his statement. The one thing I do get is that they have DNA because they cannot run it unless it is typed and ready for comparison.

    As to the UP, she was found 1990 if I recall correctly and DNA had not become a viable form of identification, which means there may not now be anything from which to obtain a DNA sample. Example: I am working two cases around that time frame where there is no extracted DNA and that is impossible to do now as the ME offices have cremated the UP.

    Without DNA there are other ways of identifying. In this one, there are dental records for the UP which do not match the description of the Day case. There is also a full body scan which again is not consistent with reports on the Day case (no fractured pelvis or tail bone).

    The most puzzling aspect of this case for me to grasp is that this UP was in fact put into NamUS last year. So what has been done to find the missing person before this UP was actually presented as a possible? What means has been utilized to search for her - when and where? The Internet has a lot of possibilities so why is this just now getting attention for DNA or dentals? I ask myself these questions because they are the only form of logic I can grasp here.
    MO:twocents:
     
  19. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    Friendly reminder:

    Please remember this thread is a possible match thread for comparison between Cynthia Day and NamUs case number #5294 so the discussion should remain related on this particular possible match. Also, WS is a victim friendly forum. Because a WS member is working with family on this case we ask you please keep that in mind with the discussion.

    If this possible match is ruled out, this thread will be closed so any discussion on other possible matches for Cynthia - should be started and discussed in a seperate missing persons thread for Cynthia. (I'm unsure if she has a thread in our missing but not forgotten discussion forum, if not, anyone is welcome to start one.) I believe this Jane Doe also has a seperate thread to discuss possible matches to other missing persons.

    Please let me know if you have any questions.

    thank you! I love the passion you guys put into this area of WS. Keep up the fantastic work! :blowkiss:

    Cubby
    (mod)
     
  20. Brassband

    Brassband New Member

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    Hi Chaddylex,
    I’m not prepared to give up hope in this match at all.
    For 20 years I worked in a field that demanded precise and accurate paper work. It was required that we double and triple check our work. Part of my job included verifying the accuracy of another persons work. Let me just say that I would find so many mistakes that sometimes it was beyond belief. And it wasn’t necessarily because of incompetence; the mistakes could merely be a result of being interrupted and being under time constraints for deadlines. That being said, these profiles entered into a database can and quite possibly do have errors. I would never consider anything as “the word of God” that has been manually entered into a system.
    As for the body scan not matching the “memory” of the family. I can tell you in my family, no two members will remember a family story the same way. What one member may remember their mother saying could have been a mother’s exaggeration. I haven’t heard if medical records have been obtained to confirm the family’s recollections, so I would tend to discount those as well, without solid confirmation.
    All that being said, I’m still holding out hope on this match too.
     

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