Found Deceased MO - Toni Anderson, 20, North Kansas City, 15 Jan 2017 #5

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MaxManning

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It's not as easy to get out of a car in water as you might think, and nothing to do with whether the person is a good swimmer or not. It's reckoned you have maybe a minute and during that time the best case scenario is that you instantly have your wits about you, the window is rolled down and you weren't wearing a seatbelt but didn't go through the windscreen.

Now imagine you're shocked/stunned from the impact (assuming conscious); the window is rolled up; your seatbelt is done up. The car, if front-engined, is going to be tipping nose-first down into the water. You have to get your head together, get the window down (assuming the electrics work or it's manual), get out of your seatbelt, pull yourself out through the window. Some say you have to wait for the car to sink so the pressure equalises and you can open the door, but more recently I've seen that suggested as a last resort - you'd have to hold your breath for quite a while and that may not be easy if you're shocked or panicking.

And that's all assuming the car goes in right side up...

http://www.wikihow.com/Escape-from-a-Sinking-Car

I think that obviously there is alot that can go wrong, even if you know exactly what to do. For instance, the minute you inhale water, you now have a situation where your body is panicking impulsively. It's not the same as when you dive into water deliberately and know to hold your breath.

Could her swimming skills improve her chances? surely. But I can certainly see how one could say the odds are stacked against her heavily from the word go, especially if in an accident situation where she tumbled down a slope. She might not even be conscious at that point, if she hit her head.
 

carpeverum

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In the interest of eliminating theories, I hope a sharp reporter asks whether Toni was found seat belt-buckled in the driver's seat, or whether the car's open rear hatch had been forced open by divers.

If I'm understanding your question accurately: I think it's very unlikely Toni was located anywhere other than in the front seat(s) of her vehicle. From the various videos I have watched, there was attention from people on the MO River bank fixated into the driver's side window. I noticed them all intently peering into that particular window at various times: both when the car was initially pulled, upside down and perpendicular to the park's sidewalk (and S. Main St.) as well as when they positioned it parallel to the bank. At one point: I saw a man dressed entirely in dark blue (LE?) snapping photos of the front interior, driver's side of Toni's car.

However: if this was not an accident, a vehicle will sink faster with the trunk open rather than closed. Vehicles (with engines in the front) tend to sink hood first/trunk last.

ETA: Of course it would also sink faster with open trunk if it was an accident.
JMO.
 

VictoriaH

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I think you are misinterpreting the perspective or something...

After the traffic stop, the cars cross Burlington on 26 Ave, heading to the QuikTrip. They do not turn south.

I don't understand how you come to that.
This picture taken from a still shot of one of two videos showing the traffic stop from dash cam I think. There's no street sign pole overhead if you're on 26th facing east nor is there a U-turn sign. You can see the QT red logo in between the light poles.
 

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MaxManning

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I don't understand how you come to that.
This picture taken from a still shot of one of two videos showing the traffic stop from dash cam I think. There's no street sign pole overhead if you're on 26th facing east nor is there a U-turn sign. You can see the QT red logo in between the light poles.

Did I miss something? Is this from the actual dashcam footage? is that available somewhere? I thought they weren't going to release it?

Or was this in the CWD video and I missed it somehow?
 

yorick

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Interesting article that details not only how long a car can float, but how it can end up on its roof, how to survive a sinking vehicle, etc. Just something to add to your sleuthing toolbox:

https://www.arlnow.com/2013/02/25/aaa-offers-tips-for-surviving-plunge-from-memorial-bridge/

Although most vehicles will float for three or four minutes before they start sinking due to the surprising buoyancy of the vehicle in deep water ...

In most crashes of this nature, the heaviest end of the deep-sixed vehicle – usually the end with the engine – will begin sinking first, pulling the car down at an angle, notes Popular Mechanic. That is, unless the water is 15 feet or deeper. In that case, the vehicle may land on its roof, compounding the dangers and risks for the occupants.

Edit: The most important thing I wanted to draw attention to was the possible distance a vehicle could float downriver within a few minutes. I'm not sure how much additional distance can be acquired after it hits the bottom.
 

thekarmabus

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I don't understand how you come to that.
This picture taken from a still shot of one of two videos showing the traffic stop from dash cam I think. There's no street sign pole overhead if you're on 26th facing east nor is there a U-turn sign. You can see the QT red logo in between the light poles.

That is stock video for the episode aired... not the actual video of Toni . The LE never released that video. The black and white grainy one is from that evening... all other video is stock/media fluff


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Jerrod

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Notice you all talking about the phone being connected to the network until 9:30pm that night.

True! But then what the heck was she doing for 17 hours and not being "caught" on any CCTV??

The one ping in the Parkville area was confirmed, but it's hard to believe there weren't other calls or texts in those 17 hours; ones which we know nothing about. LE did modify their theory once they were given the correct encryption key and accessed her phone data in the cloud, and they're understandably keeping tight-lipped about specifics. Now that they have a body, they may be zeroing in on anyone traceable in her phone data. Definitive autopsy results may even lead to an arrest.
 

Hopingtohelp

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Team Watters Sonar, Missouri State Highway Patrol Dive Team, LE, and all others who assisted in the locating and removal of Toni Anderson's car and body deserve a huge round of thanks. That was a daunting task. I watched the live feed. Every time divers went in, I held my breath. I am so grateful for their heroic efforts to bring Toni home. So sad for her parents and other loved ones.
 

VictoriaH

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That is stock video for the episode aired... not the actual video of Toni . The LE never released that video. The black and white grainy one is from that evening... all other video is stock/media fluff


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Ohhhhh, okay if that's the case, I'm sorry! I didn't know they did things like that. I'm still new at this and I'm trying to learn :sigh:
 

carpeverum

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The one ping in the Parkville area was confirmed, but it's hard to believe there weren't other calls or texts in those 17 hours which we know nothing about. LE did modify their theory once they were given the correct encryption key and accessed her phone data in the cloud, and they're understandably keeping tight-lipped about specifics. Now that they have a body, they may be zeroing in on anyone traceable in her phone data. Definitive autopsy results may even lead to an arrest.

I'm still attempting to catch-up with the recent (bombardment) of posts here since Toni's car was discovered. Apologies if this has already been discussed, but are we to now disregard the early Monday morning ping that PS claimed he heard about?
 

AceDetective

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I don't understand how you come to that.
This picture taken from a still shot of one of two videos showing the traffic stop from dash cam I think. There's no street sign pole overhead if you're on 26th facing east nor is there a U-turn sign. You can see the QT red logo in between the light poles.

They show a clip of the surveillance video from J.D.Byrider. That shows them crossing Burlington after the traffic stop.

As others have noted, all other video is either stock footage or re-creation. Dash cam video has not been released.
 

VictoriaH

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They show a clip of the surveillance video from J.D.Byrider. That shows them crossing Burlington after the traffic stop.

As others have noted, all other video is either stock footage or re-creation. Dash cam video has not been released.

Okay got it sorry about that!
 

Niner

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DexterMorgan said:
Omg.
This site is the only site that takes 1hr to post 1 sentence. What the heck.
I love Websleuths. But is the I.t guy aware of why these slow moments keep happening.
Because sometimes. I could barely even thank a post without the site freezing.
So what's going on?

:pcguru:
computer-losy-smiley.gif


It's been a bit slow loading for me too!

:welcome5: to you n_6CC! Sorry to hear about your child's swim coach! You can get verified as an insider here if you like; then your words won't be considered "rumors".
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?521-Verified-Professional-and-Insider-Members

and anyone else that are/were firends with Toni.

Sorry if this has already been posted previously - just trying to catch up with you all!
 

MaxManning

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Edit: The most important thing I wanted to draw attention to was the possible distance a vehicle could float downriver within a few minutes. I'm not sure how much additional distance can be acquired after it hits the bottom.

What is the possible distance? I don't see that noted. I see the time estimate, but not a distance estimate.

In relation to this case, I think we need to understand if it's feasible for a car to travel 8 miles from the point of entry. If not, then the car either entered via the boat ramp or the slope.

I don't think anyone is questioning how the car got to it's location if it went off the boatramp or down the slope, both entry points are completely believable.

It's the 8 miles away that we are trying to exclude or confirm is possible.

Some are still saying it could have gone upstream from a spot on 9 to the east, but I still point to physics being an actual thing on that one!
 

thekarmabus

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Ohhhhh, okay if that's the case, I'm sorry! I didn't know they did things like that. I'm still new at this and I'm trying to learn :sigh:

No apologies ... it can become confusing with media. If it were the video of Toni you were dead on about this not making sense! :)


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BigRedTomato

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I've spent some time in google maps this morning and I'm now convinced that it's not probable that Toni ends up on that long road to the north that leads to the boat ramp. That road appears to be for someone towing a boat to the boat ramp, and it doesn't appear to be paved, but is actually gravel. So for her to just decide to make the right turn onto that gravel road would have most likely been a very deliberate one imo.

Possibly she was looking for a place to turn around some might say? But in street view she would have hand numerous places to simply do that because there was parking spaces before she would ever see that gravel road.

Now there is a pathway to that gravel road just after going over a small creek, but if you look in streetview it doesn't even look like a road, but a path. The map view makes you believe it's an actual road, but I think it's highly improbable she'd even see that if she hadn't been there before. So again, I think it'd be highly deliberate if she chose that route.

In a nutshell due to all these details, I find it harder to believe she ends up on that gravel road leading ultimately to the boat ramp by accident such as in a situation where she's lost and looking for a way to turn around. I think now it's more probable that she would have went along shore to the dog park. In that case, the boat ramp would make no sense to accidentally go off, because she'd have to swing a hard left.

So... my conclusion is that if she didn't go down that slope via losing control on main street, I think it's highly improbable this is an accident of going off the boat ramp. Not impossible, but just highly improbable.

The slope seems to be the most likely route for an accident.

Is this what I have correct? I was thinking that there'd been a recent update with paving. It's been what I've been looking at to base my opinion.
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lmadler

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Did I miss something? Is this from the actual dashcam footage? is that available somewhere? I thought they weren't going to release it?

Or was this in the CWD video and I missed it somehow?
I thought she had a logo on her rear windshield

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thekarmabus

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What is the possible distance? I don't see that noted. I see the time estimate, but not a distance estimate.

In relation to this case, I think we need to understand if it's feasible for a car to travel 8 miles from the point of entry. If not, then the car either entered via the boat ramp or the slope.

I don't think anyone is questioning how the car got to it's location if it went off the boatramp or down the slope, both entry points are completely believable.

It's the 8 miles away that we are trying to exclude or confirm is possible.

Some are still saying it could have gone upstream from a spot on 9 to the east, but I still point to physics being an actual thing on that one!

There are more than likely so many externality factors that this will not be answered definitively. The slope important and the geometry of the body including the bed width and bank height will have some minor effect if the river is narrow. The roughness of the river bed and sides also will have an effect of slowing down the river. Density of suspended material can add resistance to the flow of water if it is high enough, but is usually not a factor. Riss lake is an artificial lake (storage pond) and changes based on river flow...


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