Found Deceased MO - Toni Anderson, 20, North Kansas City, 15 Jan 2017 #5

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arnott1979

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One thing that we need to consider in this case is the temperature of the water in the Missouri River in that area in Jan/Feb/March. Even under the best of circumstances, extremely cold water makes it impossible to swim for any length of time. It also may do a better job of preserving biological evidence in a case like this one.
I don't know if anyone has heard of dry drowning, but that's a possibility if she was alive when she went in

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MaxManning

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Swimming is irrelevant. You have to be out of the car in the first place to swim.

If you look at what I posted, i include a link describing what you do to get out of the car. I certainly explained that it by no means makes it easy.

But once you are out of the car, is a better swimmer going to be able to get to shore in a moving river? certainly.

You also have to realize the water was cold and as it was near or around freezing, that creates a whole new challenge which reduces time you have to get to safety, even if you got of the car.

But, in case you just read one part of my comment and not the part that says basically what you have said, here it is :

http://www.wikihow.com/Escape-from-a-Sinking-Car

I think that obviously there is alot that can go wrong, even if you know exactly what to do. For instance, the minute you inhale water, you now have a situation where your body is panicking impulsively. It's not the same as when you dive into water deliberately and know to hold your breath.

Could her swimming skills improve her chances? surely. But I can certainly see how one could say the odds are stacked against her heavily from the word go, especially if in an accident situation where she tumbled down a slope. She might not even be conscious at that point, if she hit her head.

again.. can swimming skills improve her chances. surely! But I am pretty sure the central point of what you didn't reply to was that her chances started at horrible.
 

heartgoesout

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There is weight to the masses of people that are screaming foul play. It's not because we need to put blame somewhere for such a tragedy to help explain it. It is because those of us that have been following this case closely realize there is reason to question an accident that mimics the JFK magic bullet.
 

MaxManning

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There is weight to the masses of people that are screaming foul play. It's not because we need to put blame somewhere for such a tragedy to help explain it. It is because those of us that have been following this case closely realize there is reason to question an accident that mimics the JFK magic bullet.

Well, I think it's not even something magical. They could put it all to rest very simply as there should be undeniable proof. They have chosen not to.

If I am understanding correctly, these cars are equipped with a gps where dispatcher can track where they are etc. Can anyone confirm that?

So there should be no question as to where the officer went or any other officer on duty that night. right?

It'd be one thing if some monumental investigation had to go on to put the officer angle to bed, but it's actually just things like dashcam footage, dispatcher records, and gps information(potentially).

That's stuff that is all there to provide transparency and remove doubt in situations just like this. So when they aren't something available, how can anyone be surprised by skepticism and suspicion?

Seems like it'd be really simple to squash those rumors imo.
 

yorick

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What is the possible distance? I don't see that noted. I see the time estimate, but not a distance estimate.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was figuring sleuthers would extrapolate that information based on potential flow rates and the general lack of hydrodynamic nature of a vehicle.

My conclusion would be that a car wouldn't get far if it went in nose first. Maybe in a flooding situation where a vehicle is brought up off of all four wheels uniformly, the vehicle might travel an impressive distance.

Edit: I think there's no way it could go 8 miles downriver, IMO.
 

heartgoesout

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I'm staring to think there is no dash cam footage.
 

heartgoesout

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I will never believe she was in that park to kill herself.
 

Jerrod

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Well, I think it's not even something magical. They could put it all to rest very simply as there should be undeniable proof. They have chosen not to.

If I am understanding correctly, these cars are equipped with a gps where dispatcher can track where they are etc. Can anyone confirm that?

So there should be no question as to where the officer went or any other officer on duty that night. right?

It'd be one thing if some monumental investigation had to go on to put the officer angle to bed, but it's actually just things like dashcam footage, dispatcher records, and gps information(potentially).

That's stuff that is all there to provide transparency and remove doubt in situations just like this. So when they aren't something available, how can anyone be surprised by skepticism and suspicion?

Seems like it'd be really simple to squash those rumors imo.

The 2014 Ford Focus is not on the list of cars factory-equipped with a black box. Regardless, GPS tracking is not one of the variables recorded by a vehicle's factory-installed black box. However, anyone with access to Toni's Google account could've checked to see if her “location history” feature was enabled through her cell. If so, it would serve as a tracking device.
 

heartgoesout

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Max in your post 865 do you mean far left or far right? "come from that gravel road extending from the far left of this image".
Would it be far right on the picture?
 

BunnyHop

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I see many posting about a car in water and how to escape. The obvious to me is that she may have been unconscious.
 

MaxManning

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The 2014 Ford Focus is not on the list of cars factory-equipped with a black box. Regardless, GPS tracking is not one of the variables recorded by a vehicle's factory-installed black box. However, anyone with access to Toni's Google account could've checked to see if her “location history” feature was enabled through her cell. If so, it would serve as a tracking device.

I am not talking about the ford focus, I am talking about the police cars. Not even sure what model they are, but lots of police agencies are using gps for tracking police vehicles. Some police unions are against it because the officers think it will lead to micro-management of their time and privacy issue as some take their cars home.

But my point is that the police cars possibly have gps. I know of many departments that have them now.

In terms of dispatch, you can simply go to the communication between the officer and dispatch to see if he called in the plates. If he didn't call in the plates, it's somewhat reasonable to suspect he KNEW Toni in some way, whether it be via a previous pullover or outside of work. That would raise a whole new array of questions. Keep in mind that it's common for police officers to do off duty work in bars, strip clubs, etc as security or bouncers.

Not sure if that's the case here, but it's one of those things that can easily be verified, right? The point is to exclude the officer. Which is why I am pointing to ways that can be done very simply.

Since nothing concrete has been presented by LE, it's gonna be something people will have legitimate suspicion of. I understand it, even if it's not likely.
 

MaxManning

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Max in your post 865 do you mean far left or far right? "come from that gravel road extending from the far left of this image".
Would it be far right on the picture?

Yes, you are right, it's a mistake. I can't edit it now, but hopefully it's clear somehow, haha.


But I think my largest question was if that path/road was even something she would travel on in a normal situation. I can honestly see in a situation where someone is being chased, they might turn onto a gravel road to be evasive.


The whole process of evaluating that road was me just trying to determine how probable she'd even go that way. I was trying to find a scenario where an accident going down the boat ramp made sense. I'm concluding it's not all that probable.
 

heartgoesout

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There was a case I followed where a women left a bar and went missing. She left her phone in the bar bathroom. She was recently divorced and was dating a new man. We speculated away. Her and her car were found in a ravine a few miles away. It was ruled an accident.

Not everything about it made sense, but for sure not everything about it didn't make sense!

There was a sense of closure even though it was difficult to imagine how on earth it happened. There is no rhyme or reason to Toni's death. At the end of the day...
Too many story changes.
Too many unexplained missing hours.
Too many shady people involved.
 

heartgoesout

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Yes, you are right, it's a mistake. I can't edit it now, but hopefully it's clear somehow, haha.


But I think my largest question was if that path/road was even something she would travel on in a normal situation. I can honestly see in a situation where someone is being chased, they might turn onto a gravel road to be evasive.


The whole process of evaluating that road was me just trying to determine how probable she'd even go that way. I was trying to find a scenario where an accident going down the boat ramp made sense. I'm concluding it's not all that probable.


See I do read your posts. Even the really long ones! :anguish: haha
If, and thats a big if, she was driving on the gravel path coming from the right of the picture, I can absolutely see how one could mistake the boat ramp for the road. Even more so if it was icy. Recipe for disaster.

My problem is she was not supposed to be at that park.
Let alone on some stupid gravel path.
Nope. No. Nada.
 

leep

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There was a case I followed where a women left a bar and went missing. She left her phone in the bar bathroom. She was recently divorced and was dating a new man. We speculated away. Her and her car were found in a ravine a few miles away. It was ruled an accident.

Not everything about it made sense, but for sure not everything about it didn't make sense!

There was a sense of closure even though it was difficult to imagine how on earth it happened. There is no rhyme or reason to Toni's death. At the end of the day...
Too many story changes.
Too many unexplained missing hours.
Too many shady people involved.

Was it in Indiana Kristy Kelley, this case was my first I followed on WS.
She had been for a drink at a veterans bar is that the same girl @heartgoesout.
Sad sad case she was a beautiful young lady I'll go find her full name.
http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/miss...sing-america-body-kristy-kelley-found-n205256
After she was sadly found a guard rail was put up and shortly after it saved a teens life.
http://www.14news.com/story/28401021/guardrail-put-up-after-kristy-kelleys-death-saves-teens-life


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perfectingpink

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http://www.wibw.com/content/news/No...-to-finding-Toni-Andersons-car-415977873.html

Another article about Watters recovery team.
He says the car may have never been found because the Missouri river was about to swallow it up.
How does a river completely swallow a car?

If the car was almost buried in the silt, I would think the silt would have been scooped up as the car was being drug to shore and I didn't see anything like that. Also, there was not any visible silt inside the vehicle so I don't know that I believe the river was about to swallow it up.
 

MaxManning

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http://www.wibw.com/content/news/No...-to-finding-Toni-Andersons-car-415977873.html

Another article about Watters recovery team.
He says the car may have never been found because the Missouri river was about to swallow it up.
How does a river completely swallow a car?


It would be slowly covered by sand/sediment over time that hits against the car as the river flows. It would become buried.

You can simulate this kind of thing in a sandbox if you have one. Make a long river and put a toy car in there. Start pouring water into the mouth of your river and see how it carries sand along the bottom of your river and hits the car and eventually will cover it over time.
 
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