Found Deceased MO - Toni Anderson, 20, North Kansas City, 15 Jan 2017 #6

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by tlcya, Feb 12, 2017.

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  1. carpeverum

    carpeverum New Member

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    If she was actually going there to buy 1+ pound(s), seems to me she would have been smart enough to take at least one trusted person along with her. Business on that level, in the dark, isolated area...never a good thing to go alone if you're a male or a female. I also don't believe she would have had that kind of cash available based on her known types of employment and the fact she felt gutted after paying $1,200 to UMKC for this semester's tuition. If others she knew contributed to the funds for her alleged park meeting: even less of a chance she would have gone alone IMO.
     
  2. amosp

    amosp New Member

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    I just don't understand how they can honestly say no foul play. It could have been an accident but if her window was down, in icy conditions I am skeptical.


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  3. marsyao

    marsyao Well-Known Member

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    We do not know she was on her way home, and her car could be slipped into the water when she was trying to back out from the ramp
     
  4. amosp

    amosp New Member

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    It could have but cars don't sink in a few seconds, it takes a bit. Personally if I noticed my car sinking I would jump out.


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  5. kittymittons

    kittymittons New Member

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    What I don't understand is why KCPD won't release the dash cam footage. There are tons of people questioning if something else occurred during that stop. Wouldn't it make sense to just release the footage to clear up there being no funny business?


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  6. amosp

    amosp New Member

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    I'm sorry, I should say it wouldn't sink in a few second if it were sliding down a boat ramp.


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  7. DatelineFan

    DatelineFan Well-Known Member

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    I think we need to remember that it sounds like she had been up all night. Fatigue can be just as dangerous as driving drunk. And if she was high or something, AND sleepy, that's very dangerous. Also, as I said before, it's not uncommon for someone to drive with the window down when it's cold out to stay awake.
     
  8. thekarmabus

    thekarmabus Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this. A pound of pot would cost 2-3 grand for reasonably good quality .. she would not have gone alone. Also, after being pulled over by the LE shortly beforehand it would be way too risky for a deal that large unless she was working with the LE on something.


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  9. marsyao

    marsyao Well-Known Member

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    Or she did not lost conscious immediately after crashed into the water, so she undo her seatbelt and roll down the window trying to escape from her car, but too weak to doing so
     
  10. Capstan07

    Capstan07 New Member

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    The company I own has specialized in vehicle recovery since 1981. A large percentage of recoveries are for LE.

    It is not logical in any way to purposely bring up a vehicle sideways to hide a body from view of media or helicopters. The number one priority is to recover the vehicle without causing more damage--many many techniques available to accomplish this successfully--number two priority is not to further contaminate the scene and vehicle being recovered.

    It's so very easy to use a tarp the moment the vehicle starts to emerge from the water. Really easy and every crime scene / forensic / detective has access to tarps as standard equipment. My company always carries new sealed tarps for this purpose and any company doing LE recovery that's professional should as well. Often the divers--really almost always--stay in the water to facilitate removal of the vehicle and get it covered the moment it starts to come out of the water.

    Vehicle recovery is slow process the car just doesn't bob up unexpectedly--so plenty of time to control the scene.

    Forensic LE dive teams in my experience are phenomenal folks. Not saying everywhere they are great but in all the years I've done this the divers usually are just great.

    No matter how good, experienced, conscientious and how clear the water might be divers are NO substitute for a through forensic examination of a recovered vehicle in a controlled and secure environment.

    I have seen a lot of talk about how divers could tell if windows were rolled down or broken out. This is actually easy to accomplish by gently pulling back the lip of the window gasket and using s light to see if the window is retracted into the door panel. You can try this yourself safely in your driveway.

    The recovery IMO was horribly flawed. A professional company with trained and experienced personnel and proper equipment absolutely could, should and would have recovered her Focus without causing any substantial additional damage. I cringed when I saw how the car was being dragged. I have seen sloppy companies before but never ever ever to this level. It's embarrassing because a county guy or gal with a jacked up pick-up and a couple chains that grew up on a farm could have pulled her car out without rolling it over and causing damage. I'm serious. Every farm gets stuck tractors and rolling them over or damaging them is bad for the checkbook.

    Just the way they used what we call a J-Hook to attach to one point on the car is horrible. There should have been proper rigging, a minimum of two points of attachment, snatch blocks, double winch lines and so many other things done to get her car out the way it was underwater without damage.

    I spoke to this on another post but this is the worst recovery I've seen for a potential crime scene. Honestly.

    Then to transport her car using an auto loader / aka Repo truck with the front wheels turning on a FWD car---potentially destroyed so much evidence.

    The only time you drag a car the way her Focus was dragged is IF and only IF it's a "simple accident" without injuries and no crime investigation. Example 3 weeks ago we recovered a mini-van from a river that fell off a competitors truck because the driver didn't properly secure it. That's a hook and drag because the van is totaled and there is no crime or investigation. Even if it's a crash with minor injuries you better believe the personal injury attorneys will sue the living daylights out of a recovery company that improperly recovers a vehicle affecting their personal injury lawsuits!!!!


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  11. Jerrod

    Jerrod Well-Known Member

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  12. I considered that. Or she was trying to get out but was overpowered by water coming in. I posted a simulation of a submerging car created by experts to educate people earlier in the thread. It's very eye opening.


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  13. Capstan07

    Capstan07 New Member

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    No way it was rolled down by recovery team if window was electric. Not gonna happen from car being submerged. If manual windows. Maybe. I hope not. That's not something I've ever seen done because the car has to be gone over in a secure and controlled environment by a forensics team.


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  14. Capstan07

    Capstan07 New Member

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    Back to my post about brining up a vehicle sideways on purpose......I am not sure if I should say this or not......it's gruesome and my apologies. Even a body in water a short time has effects on it--I don't need to say more. More than a few days---talking weeks---well, it's usually not pleasant. My point is dragging side ways all but guarantees damage to the body it's not exactly sturdy. Again, my apologies, but windows down or busted, rocks and dirt and a body unrestrained underwater. Not smart to drag it up like that just from a human compassion standpoint.


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  15. carpeverum

    carpeverum New Member

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    Do you think that the tow company, divers, and others involved were not at fault for the extremely unprofessional "recovery effort"? A large law enforcement presence was at the scene on Friday, would not have every part of the recovery process needed communication, clearance, and confirmation prior to simply dragging her vehicle out in whatever manner a tow company chose--and not necessarily the easiest way? LE received confirmation of both vehicle's plate numbers before either car came to the surface.

    My point being: is it possible that LE on scene could have requested the pull to be one of the type "no foul play/non-injury accident" and the choice was never up to those actually physically working the scene?
     
  16. Vail

    Vail Justice for Kara & Jessica

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    It is just a bit OT and cooky, but did you read the sample pages? It isn't enough that the author's name is Toni Anderson (that is how I stumbled upon it) but that it is about a girl just like Toni getting pulled over by a cop who kills her. (Disclaimer: That is not my opinion, it is just an odd coincidence)

    Regarding Toni's recovery, I still don't understand why the car was pulled out with her body still in it. That doesn't seem normal, at all.
     
  17. StPauliGirlK

    StPauliGirlK Member

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    Thank you so much for sharing your expertise on this!
     
  18. Capstan07

    Capstan07 New Member

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    Obviously I wasn't there so have no idea what communications or protocols local LE have. I have no idea the motives for recovering the car the way it was done.

    It absolutely damaged the car and complicates a forensic investigation.

    Certainly they knew this was Toni's car. That's something everyone can agree on. LE knew this was her car. Based on my experience and really common sense dragging her car up and towing it wheels down just seems extremely careless.

    Just my opinion. I don't understand why it was done in this manor. If I was a paranoid conspiracy theorist I would almost say they wanted to contaminate and damage potential evidence. I'm not saying that and I'm not a paranoid conspiracy person.

    I really don't understand in a big city, even a small town, not having basic rigging and a flatbed for transport.


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  19. n_6CC

    n_6CC Well-Known Member

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    Thank you so much for this info. I was curious on every aspect of it. I don't know what to think anymore about the way they are handling things.


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  20. Capstan07

    Capstan07 New Member

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    Just to add further the way the car was hooked using a "J" hook without a snatch block to double the line and without two attach points makes it likely to break the winch cable. A broken winch cable under tension can literally amputate a limb or even kill someone. You you be amazed the potential energy released when a winch cable under tension snaps. So I don't understand why the truck operator took the personal risks he / she did. A car underwater with silt has enormous drag that you are pulling against plus the current too.


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