GUILTY MO - Tyler Dasher, 1, Affton, 15 Nov 2011 - #2

Ada

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Sorry, waaaay behind on this thread. Can't post from work and then when I get home, I'm way behind again. :banghead:

Anyway, I've seen some posts here speculating that 'mom' maybe snapped, was drunk, on drugs, whatever, prior to beating this beautiful boy to death.

My comment is, if any of the above were true, wouldn't you just be beside yourself with grief the next day? This 'mother' walked around like nothing was wrong. I would think the guilt, alone, would be incapacitating. Add in that your baby is dead. How would you walk, at all? Much less with a smile on your face?

If I ever snapped and did anything to harm one of the babies in my family (don't have any of my own but my siblings have filled in for me), I would eviscerate myself from sadness and guilt.
 

Bravo

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By all appearances it seems to me that Shelby is a cold blooded killer. Nothing more nothing less. We ask why because we dont understand. We dont understand because we are not cold blooded killers. There are just no reasons,stressors or excuses.MOO
 

Etilema

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Sorry, waaaay behind on this thread. Can't post from work and then when I get home, I'm way behind again. :banghead:

Anyway, I've seen some posts here speculating that 'mom' maybe snapped, was drunk, on drugs, whatever, prior to beating this beautiful boy to death.

My comment is, if any of the above were true, wouldn't you just be beside yourself with grief the next day? This 'mother' walked around like nothing was wrong. I would think the guilt, alone, would be incapacitating. Add in that your baby is dead. How would you walk, at all? Much less with a smile on your face?

If I ever snapped and did anything to harm one of the babies in my family (don't have any of my own but my siblings have filled in for me), I would eviscerate myself from sadness and guilt.

Yes, and usually when someone "snaps" that is the case--they are afterwards overwhelmed with grief and guilt. Shelby is atypical in more ways than one, it would seem.
 

Badger

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Because every criminal defendant has the right to make the State prove their case. Even with a confession, the State is required to substantiate the confession with independent evidence.

Some people will confess even though they had nothing to do with the crime. The State has to have evidence that corroborates the crime and that the particular defendant committed the crime.

Hope that helps,

Salem

Great answer, Salem;

If anyone reading this thread is interested in reading how felony charges are processed in court in Missouri go to :

http://ago.mo.gov/publications/courtprocess.pdf

Today was just a preliminary hearing by the judge to determine if the accused should be held in custody.
 

gitana1

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I think one of the things that would be really helpful is educating the public in what to look for in a potential abuser. As mothers, we all have seen mothers who are terrible and heartless. My guess is, it was pretty obvious to everyone around her that she didn't want to be bothered by this child. She may have had her moments of tenderness, but it sounds like in general, he was irritating to her. That pic of him in the bathtub - what did she see when she looked at that pic? That is one sad, sad little boy. When she looked at that, did it look cute to her? So the more proactive the community is, at spotting that and seeking help when it's warranted for abusive and neglectful parents, the better. And this sweet baby may not have died completely in vain.

But what's weird about it is, according to her friends (I have been reading FB posts and watching clips), Tyler was very bonded to Shelby, would cry like mad if she left the room for a moment. They also claims she loved her baby like mad.

Then again, that's what people said about casey anthony and Caylee. Maybe sometimes kids who detect their parents' indifference to them, cling harder, desperately seeking the love they need and deserve. I had that thought about Caylee when people stated Caylee could not stand to be away from her side.

I took a break yesterday after learning that this woman would be charged with second degree murder instead of first degree murder. I was so upset that once again a "mother" is treated differently than if a "father" had beaten the innocent baby to death. This woman deserves to be charged the ultimate charge for brutally beating Tyler Dasher to death. It isn't that she just hit him once out of anger and he died from that one blow. She continued to beat him until IMO, she either got tired of beating him or he was no longer making a sound, meaning he died. Why is this not premeditated murder? :maddening:
It's a fine line. If it was a felony murder state, she could be charged with 1st degree murder. In MO, you need premeditation and that is usually set aside for people who actively think: "I want to end this person's life. How can I do it? let me plan this out." Of course, that can happen very quickly. To me, it is common sense that if you beat a baby, especially on their head, they are going to die. But it doesn't seem that she was trying to kill him, more like she didn't give a carp if he died or not. And that is second degree in MO, not first.

But I am not displeased with second degree. She is eligible for LWOP in MO if she is convicted of second degree murder.

That is a devastating statistic--- 80% 0f homicides for infants involve 'fatal battering.' That is so pathetic and sick. I cannot wrap my head around the act of beating up an infant. Seriously. I can understand taking an angry punch at an insolent, swearing teenager. My husband and teen son nearly came to blows one time. BUT AN INFANT? I just cannot imagine beating a tiny little baby like that. It is hard to imagine how cold and cruel and evil one has to be to kill a tiny baby by beating them. :mad: :rose:

I just don't get this either. I am so gentle with children, babies, animals. They are fragile, dependent little things. How can a person ever think of beating a baby like they are in some kind of bar fight with a grown man?

I think that we are all going to be devastated when we find that she makes a plea and gets less time than if she abandoned a puppy. Mothers who murder have been getting slaps on the hand. Some people refuse to believe that a mother could actually harm her child unless there is something mentally wrong with her. I think it is time that people realize that evil does exists and that just because a woman can open her legs for a man that does not mean that she is a mother.

I seriously hope you are wrong. We need to value our kids more than this. We can all express our feelings to the DA and tell them that a light sentence would be a such an indignity to the beautiful soul that is Tyler. If enough people let their feelings know, it will help. The DA is a political position and public sentiment can sway things.

Sorry, waaaay behind on this thread. Can't post from work and then when I get home, I'm way behind again. :banghead:

Anyway, I've seen some posts here speculating that 'mom' maybe snapped, was drunk, on drugs, whatever, prior to beating this beautiful boy to death.

My comment is, if any of the above were true, wouldn't you just be beside yourself with grief the next day? This 'mother' walked around like nothing was wrong. I would think the guilt, alone, would be incapacitating. Add in that your baby is dead. How would you walk, at all? Much less with a smile on your face?

If I ever snapped and did anything to harm one of the babies in my family (don't have any of my own but my siblings have filled in for me), I would eviscerate myself from sadness and guilt.

Yes, and usually when someone "snaps" that is the case--they are afterwards overwhelmed with grief and guilt. Shelby is atypical in more ways than one, it would seem.

That's true. I saw the video. She seemed as calm as can be, not a care in the world. Her conduct belies her supposed love of her baby.

I guess she fooled a lot of people.
 

OneLove

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But what's weird about it is, according to her friends (I have been reading FB posts and watching clips), Tyler was very bonded to Shelby, would cry like mad if she left the room for a moment. They also claims she loved her baby like mad.

Then again, that's what people said about casey anthony and Caylee. Maybe sometimes kids who detect their parents' indifference to them, cling harder, desperately seeking the love they need and deserve. I had that thought about Caylee when people stated Caylee could not stand to be away from her side.

.

Very interesting. This is EXACTLY what my young friends tell me about the popular approach of "attachment parenting". They say that the general principal is that by providing closeness (slings, baby packs, etc) in the first 9 months and being attentive to all the baby's needs that as they grow older they will be SO SECURE they will develop a normal healthy independence and strong sense of self. So.....by that explanation, a whiny clingy toddler may well NOT have felt secure and cared for at a younger age and is always in fear of being abandoned.
 

JeannaT

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Very interesting. This is EXACTLY what my young friends tell me about the popular approach of "attachment parenting". They say that the general principal is that by providing closeness (slings, baby packs, etc) in the first 9 months and being attentive to all the baby's needs that as they grow older they will be SO SECURE they will develop a normal healthy independence and strong sense of self. So.....by that explanation, a whiny clingy toddler may well NOT have felt secure and cared for at a younger age and is always in fear of being abandoned.

Oh, I totally believe that from my own experiences with parenting, and other mothers. Those who think they'll "spoil" their child by holding them and loving them in infancy - so they ignore the child's needs for closeness - end up in fact, with clingy insecure children. The kids don't think the world's a safe place to be, because when they are scared/hungry/cold their needs for comfort and help have been completely ignored.
 

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Flutterby - you are absolutely correct. And, I have one thing to offer that gives us all the opportunity to DO something, and not just feel something. VOLUNTEER! Seriously - I know several others on WS who are child advocates (as am I) and we give a little or a lot of time to help the "end result" of child abuse. But there are programs everywhere. Working with pregnant teens, working with abused kids, new mothers.

Just do it! It's amazing, not only will you maybe be able to help someone who needs it , it will make YOU feel better. Guaranteed. I have yet to meet anyone who did not get positive benefits from volunteering.

:crush:

Thought it should be repeated.

There is so much need, and far to few who offer to help.
 

JeannaT

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Flutterby - you are absolutely correct. And, I have one thing to offer that gives us all the opportunity to DO something, and not just feel something. VOLUNTEER! Seriously - I know several others on WS who are child advocates (as am I) and we give a little or a lot of time to help the "end result" of child abuse. But there are programs everywhere. Working with pregnant teens, working with abused kids, new mothers.

Just do it! It's amazing, not only will you maybe be able to help someone who needs it , it will make YOU feel better. Guaranteed. I have yet to meet anyone who did not get positive benefits from volunteering.

Absolutely. I have worked with pregnant teens in their childbirth experience through the first 6 months of life, and it's amazing. You can tell the ones who will "make it" vs. the ones who flat out don't have a mother's heart. Some completely get it (less than half, for sure) and some treat their babies like an irritation and are kind of bored with the well check visits. There was this one teen Mom who had a baby losing weight (HELLO, MOST MOMS FREAK OUT at that) and she was clearly irritated and agitated with me when we drifted off the topic of how SHE was recovering from childbirth to how the baby was not thriving. Her baby was removed by CPS, thankfully. She just treated that sweetie like a houseplant that you don't care if they thrive or not.
 

MaryBelle

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Very lengthy article with new details. It just gets worse with time.

"Veteran detective had immediate suspicions about missing St. Louis County child"

"Authorities would not say whether Tyler was still alive when his mother dumped his body."

"It's rare to see a person afterwards be as cold as she was to carry this child off and throw him into the woods," he said. "That's rare for somebody who has lost it and got frustrated with a child and abused the child to see them take the body and abandon them."

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_daf1c51a-996e-5e6e-a985-fd76d4262269.html
 

mikeysmommom

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I think we are doing all of the future babies of this world a terrible disservice if we don't try to understand it. Working to understand child abuse will hopefully lead to finding ways to prevent it. Understanding why someone does something doesn't negate their responsibility. It doesn't take away the sorrow and anger we all feel. It just, hopefully, saves some babies. What could be wrong with that?

I do agree with you but not in a case like this one.Shelby put Tyler to bed at 6pm to go out and party.She came home drunk at 2:30 am she killed Tyler because probably after hours of being awake with a dirty diaper,empty tummy he just wanted out of the crib he had been in since 6pm.God knows how many times he was left in his crib while mommy slept the day away.She is a selfish ,uncaring ,underage drinking witch IMO.How do we stop that from happening?
 

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But what's weird about it is, according to her friends (I have been reading FB posts and watching clips), Tyler was very bonded to Shelby, would cry like mad if she left the room for a moment. They also claims she loved her baby like mad.

Then again, that's what people said about casey anthony and Caylee. Maybe sometimes kids who detect their parents' indifference to them, cling harder, desperately seeking the love they need and deserve. I had that thought about Caylee when people stated Caylee could not stand to be away from her side.

snipped for space

Remember that first basic psych class in college? In ours they talked a lot about Ainsworth and maternal attachment. Around 9-10 months it's completely normal for all kids to go through a phase where they cry more with separation of those they see the most. However, it's considered a rather minimal display (depending on how it's reinforced) and kids settle easy, and are happy upon mom re-entering the room, and they outgrow it. This is a general response, obviously a sleepy baby may not settle well after getting upset, but generally that's the theory with an otherwise content child.

Then there is Ambivalent Attachment and in AA the child becomes more extremely distressed because they feel insecure in their ability to provide for them as it is. It can also take longer for their distress to simmer off. It is considered to be caused by the mother not being available.

The Avoident Attachment category is the one where the child shows no real preference for their mother over others.

Just an interesting thought on attachment... it's hard to say never having been able to see them together. I have to believe that most normal mothers who love their babies can't do this though...
 

cluciano63

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I hope we hear enough about this case to find out what was really going on in this home, with this baby. The treatment of Tyler after he was deceased (if he was) when he was dumped shows something very heartless, beyond just panic and/or shock at what she had done. How could she have managed to present herself as a "good mother" if she was also capable of this? I am anxious to see what, if anything, her mother might say. Will she be another Cindy A. or admit that there were issues and signs? It is important to know, IMO.
 

Abby Normal

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Very interesting. This is EXACTLY what my young friends tell me about the popular approach of "attachment parenting". They say that the general principal is that by providing closeness (slings, baby packs, etc) in the first 9 months and being attentive to all the baby's needs that as they grow older they will be SO SECURE they will develop a normal healthy independence and strong sense of self. So.....by that explanation, a whiny clingy toddler may well NOT have felt secure and cared for at a younger age and is always in fear of being abandoned.

I never called myself an AP mom, because I didn't want to be bound to a method... and it was a majorly underground movement when I was reading about it anyway, so there was no need to label. But my parenting (and foster parenting to the extent appropriate) happens to fall in line with AP. I had a sling from South America years before they were available in the US. IME what your friends tell you is true.

Slings are the most amazing therapy for babies and toddlers with attachment disorders. Based on my own experience with my kids getting older, I do have strong beliefs in the benefits of early and prolonged attachment between child and caregiver. Unfortunately, I see many moms falling in hook, line, and sinker into a version of this movement which is much more black and white than it was originally intended. I wont' get into the implications of that, but falling to hard for anything and losing your balance is a bad thing IMO.
 

mikeysmommom

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Sad that they weren't there when he was alive. :(

And they're taking donations for the headstone. This child didn't stand a chance.

His parents were in Tyler's life,the father has a mental illness which Shelby was aware of before becoming pregnant.The father would leave his home so Tyler could visit with the grandparents.After she filed a restraining order against him only to drop it a month later IMO to interfere in his visitation if she was afraid of him why drop it 30 days later? It was in his best interest to avoid being around her.On news friends said he was taking his meds and trying to get his illness under control for his son.Your right Tyler didn't stand a chance............not with the Momster he had.
 

katydid23

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Very interesting. This is EXACTLY what my young friends tell me about the popular approach of "attachment parenting". They say that the general principal is that by providing closeness (slings, baby packs, etc) in the first 9 months and being attentive to all the baby's needs that as they grow older they will be SO SECURE they will develop a normal healthy independence and strong sense of self. So.....by that explanation, a whiny clingy toddler may well NOT have felt secure and cared for at a younger age and is always in fear of being abandoned.

TRUE. I had the very sad experience ,twice, of knowing a very negligent and awful mother. In both cases their children were very clingy and whiny and fearful when their moms left the room or the house. One woman, my ex neighbor over 20 years ago, used to go into the bathroom and then climb out her window and leave for days at a time. She was very inconsistent, to say the least. She was in her early 20's and lived with her toddler and her grandmother, who was in her 80's. So when she snuck away from home the toddler would be in the care of an elderly woman who could not even lift the child in or out of her crib. She also used to just giver her bottles, and no solid food. And the child was 2 years old. It was so sad. I secretly called CPS many times but nothing was ever done because there was 'no abuse.' Pffftt
 

mikeysmommom

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I hope we hear enough about this case to find out what was really going on in this home, with this baby. The treatment of Tyler after he was deceased (if he was) when he was dumped shows something very heartless, beyond just panic and/or shock at what she had done. How could she have managed to present herself as a "good mother" if she was also capable of this? I am anxious to see what, if anything, her mother might say. Will she be another Cindy A. or admit that there were issues and signs? It is important to know, IMO.

Her friends also called her an independent mom,which being unemployed,living with her mom is far from an independent mother.I feel it is probably a very similar situation like CA was in. I wonder if the mom will be in CA denial or will she see her daughter for the monster she is. I am hoping she puts Tyler first but we shall see.
 
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