Molested with the handle?

[capps]

Originally Posted By BOESP:
"I don't know of anything that proves a portion of the paintbrush handle was used vaginally on JonBenet but maybe someone can come up with something convincing that demonstrates that possibility. I think, based on my reading, that this is theory that has taken on it's own life and become a "fact."

BOESP,

I think your absolutely correct in your statement above. I believe there are MANY things,that as sleuthers,we tried to brainstorm as to what we think MIGHT have happened,and before you know it it's being taken as "fact".

I may not agree with Det. Arndt on a lot of things,but I tend to agree with her statement that 90% of the information that's "out there" is inaccurate. She claimed she was going to write a book ... I'd be interested in what she has to say.

 

[Toltec]

The paint tote was placed downstairs on or before the 23d of December...LHP was asked by Patsy to remove everything from the butlers pantry.

It is fact that LHP was the person who placed the paint tote and other painting materials in the basement.

The garotte was fashioned either the 23, 24, or 25th as evidenced by the paintbrush shards on the basement floor.

My belief is that the garotte was being put together on an unconcious JonBenet as evidenced by the tangled hair and necklace surrounding the cord. The tightening of the cord sealed JonBenet's fate. She died and in doing so released the bit of urine left in her bladder. Urine was found in the carpet outside the wine cellar room.

Whoever placed the cord on JonBenet had placed it while JonBenet was laying on her stomach. The almost perfect circumference of the cord, and the wet long-johns prove JonBenet had been lying on her stomach when she died. The long-johns were wet in the front as opposed to the bottom.

 

[DeeDee249]

I had wondered about there being urine on the floor in the basement. The paintbrush shards in the same area point to the brush being broken there, and not using an already broken brush. This is in keeping with what many believe, including myself- that the garotte was made on an unconscious (from the head bash) and dying JBR, she was killed in the basement, and the urine found on her long johns and panties was post-mortem release. This is also why it was not found on the white blanket. She was wrapped in it after the urine had dried. There may not have been a lot of urine-especially if she DID wet the bed that night. The carpet could have absorbed most of it.
What puzzles me about it is that it is perfectly possible to have fashioned that garotte with an UNBROKEN brush. There really was no need to break it...unless you had plans for the other piece.

 

[BOESP]

Originally Posted By BOESP:
"I don't know of anything that proves a portion of the paintbrush handle was used vaginally on JonBenet but maybe someone can come up with something convincing that demonstrates that possibility. I think, based on my reading, that this is theory that has taken on it's own life and become a "fact."

BOESP,

I think your absolutely correct in your statement above. I believe there are MANY things,that as sleuthers,we tried to brainstorm as to what we think MIGHT have happened,and before you know it it's being taken as "fact".

I may not agree with Det. Arndt on a lot of things,but I tend to agree with her statement that 90% of the information that's "out there" is inaccurate. She claimed she was going to write a book ... I'd be interested in what she has to say.

I think about Arndt's statement too (boldface above). It really makes it hard for the public to know what to think. I can't see the general public ever being able to figure out exactly what happened and how it happened. There is a lot of good information in the autopsy, interviews, depo's and videos, to come to some good conclusions about who the best suspects are. Frankly, I think the Ramseys did themselves more harm with their book and public appearances than they did good.

 

[DeeDee249]

True. I think people felt that way about the Rs and their TV appearances and book 10 years ago, as it was happening, also. Not just with the hindsight of passing time.

 

[Albert18]

Linda Arndt was one of the best things to have ever happened to the Ramsey's. I wonder if John doesn't drink a toast to her once in a while.

 

[UKGuy]

The paint tote was placed downstairs on or before the 23d of December...LHP was asked by Patsy to remove everything from the butlers pantry.

It is fact that LHP was the person who placed the paint tote and other painting materials in the basement.

The garotte was fashioned either the 23, 24, or 25th as evidenced by the paintbrush shards on the basement floor.

My belief is that the garotte was being put together on an unconcious JonBenet as evidenced by the tangled hair and necklace surrounding the cord. The tightening of the cord sealed JonBenet's fate. She died and in doing so released the bit of urine left in her bladder. Urine was found in the carpet outside the wine cellar room.

Whoever placed the cord on JonBenet had placed it while JonBenet was laying on her stomach. The almost perfect circumference of the cord, and the wet long-johns prove JonBenet had been lying on her stomach when she died. The long-johns were wet in the front as opposed to the bottom.

Toltec,

My belief is that the garotte was being put together on an unconcious JonBenet as evidenced by the tangled hair and necklace surrounding the cord. The tightening of the cord sealed JonBenet's fate. She died and in doing so released the bit of urine left in her bladder. Urine was found in the carpet outside the wine cellar room.

Any urine may have been transferred by osmosis via her longjohns, also I've never seen it recorded that there was a urine stain?

.

 

[Toltec]

Toltec,

Any urine may have been transferred by osmosis via her longjohns, also I've never seen it recorded that there was a urine stain?

.

I'll have to look into that further.

Another thought....when she was lying face down while the garotte was being placed on her....her arms could have been above her head during the process.

 

[BBB167893]

Holding back information at this point is pointless, I agree. Not so sure about in the beginning.

 

[UKGuy]

I'll have to look into that further.

Another thought....when she was lying face down while the garotte was being placed on her....her arms could have been above her head during the process.

Toltec,

Most likely since rigor-mortis would have progressed.


I'm not 100% convinced that it all took place either just outside or inside the wine-cellar door.

The reason: very little forensic evidence.



.

 

[JMO8778]

Holding back information at this point is pointless, I agree. Not so sure about in the beginning.

do you think that's being done to protect the R's? for example,I can't figure out why the pictures from the White's party aren't being released,unless it's to keep something incriminating to the R's from being noticed.

 

[DeeDee249]

Toltec,

Most likely since rigor-mortis would have progressed.


I'm not 100% convinced that it all took place either just outside or inside the wine-cellar door.

The reason: very little forensic evidence.



.

That would also explain why her wrists could be tied no closer than 15" apart!

 

[UKGuy]

do you think that's being done to protect the R's? for example,I can't figure out why the pictures from the White's party aren't being released,unless it's to keep something incriminating to the R's from being noticed.

JMO8778,

JonBenet not wearing hair-ties. So if the parents put her straight to bed what is she doing, when discovered, wearing size-12 underwear asymmetric pony-tails, and hair-ties?


Late night shopping at bloomingdales?


.

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778,

JonBenet not wearing hair-ties. So if the parents put her straight to bed what is she doing, when discovered, wearing size-12 underwear asymmetric pony-tails, and hair-ties?


Late night shopping at bloomingdales?


.

yes,and with an 'intruder' at that.and they even stopped for pineapple !
or so the R's would have us believe...
but thx,that makes sense.I figured her hairstyle had something to do with it,but was it said for sure she had hair ties in her hair? I thought just a basket of them was found in her room..

 

[Squishified]

yes,and with an 'intruder' at that.and they even stopped for pineapple !
or so the R's would have us believe...
but thx,that makes sense.I figured her hairstyle had something to do with it,but was it said for sure she had hair ties in her hair? I thought just a basket of them was found in her room..

Wasn't her hair in two ponytails with different color hair ties??
Someone help us out!!!

 

[UKGuy]

Wasn't her hair in two ponytails with different color hair ties??
Someone help us out!!!

Squishified,

Yes, from memory it itemized in the autopsy.


.

 

[JMO8778]

thx, I remember that now.I should have anyway,as long as I've been reading up on the case.

 

[DeeDee249]

The list of items removed from the body states 3 hairties- 2 blue and 1 red, black & white. The coroner writes that the top ponytail was tied with BOTH a blue and the red/black/white hairtie. The lower ponytail was tied with the second blue one. This, to me, is something a parent would so- and I myself used to do, when making a topknot in my own daughters long hair. I'd make the ponytail with whatever held the hair best, then put on OVER it a hairtie that matched her outfit. Whether JBR wore the red turtleneck or the white shirt with the black pants, the red/black/white is certainly a choice a mom might make.
Many people believe that the red potholder loom seen in crime photos on her nightstand could have been the source of the hairties. I do remember what those little loom kits were like. They came with many fabric loops of different colors that were stretched across the loom to weave s square. Without a photo of the hairties, we have only the opinion of an older male, perhaps unfamiliar with what little girls put in their hair (like a Scrunchie or colored elastic) .

 

[Squishified]

Thanks UKGuy and DeeDee!!
JBR's hairstyle and hair ties are quite a puzzlement to me.

 

[UKGuy]

Thanks UKGuy and DeeDee!!
JBR's hairstyle and hair ties are quite a puzzlement to me.

Squishified

I guess you can look at the hair-ties in two different way. They were on her head prior to her death or they were placed there afterwards?


Due to the staging factor I favor the latter choice, it simply appears as if someone has applied the hair-ties to make JonBenet look as if she had been in bed?

Although some might say she was and with the wrong person?


.