Mommie Dearest?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Spangle

New Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
1,858
Reaction score
1
It's hard for me to believe that ICA never abused Caylee. Several reasons. 1. How could a supposedly loving mother go from never disciplining let alone abusing to murdering a child? 2. We have all seen ICA's temper...enough said. 3. There was a lot of time that ICA was supposed to be working, that she had to have had Caylee, since there was no nanny...and that goes back to #1...how in all that time did she never abuse her child, but got so angry with her she killed her on a whim. We all know she was researching ways to kill someone, and whether it was for her parents or Caylee, we will never know. But if it had been for Caylee, then it was obviously on her mind for months that she wanted to get rid of her.

I am more inclined to think that it wasn't necessarily physical abuse, but more along the lines of mental abuse because ICA is a master at playing mind games and I would not be surprised at all to learn that she had done some horrid mentally abusive things to Caylee prior to killing her.

I think the problem is that we don't want to believe a person can just snap. That there HAS to be signs. Other wise, it could happen to any of us. A friend of mine has bought JB's opening statements. She has a hard time believing that this Mother could do that to her child. Just can't get past that point.

But, about what you were saying. It only takes a second. I strong shake, and some kids are killed. Not all parents "ment' to kill their child. It might have been the 1 and only time. Yet it happens. IT only takes a second to take things to far, no going back.

WE have all seen her temper. Hers and her Mothers (CA) If she was fit to be tied from an argument between her and her Mother (CA), it might not have taken much to make a scene from "Mommy Dearest" that might have been the only time she totally lost it that bad. When they drove off, Caylee might be reacting to the stressful event. Crying, maybe wanting to go home. Which to ICA might be seen as wanting to go to CA.

Remember, all the research and story's was pointing to the G-Parents death, not the baby. She might not have been planning on murdering Caylee. It might just have happened during a fit of rage. That she later excused some how in her mind. Turning it all into 'about' her hatred of CA.

She would not have HAD to have been an abusive Mother, to have lost it that night in a fit of rage, go to far and kill her daughter.
 

darcedarce

It's not easy to tell you goodbye
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
1,254
Reaction score
3
Well that is a blanket statement if I ever heard one. How about we rephrase that to; many people who aren't experienced around children or a person who constantly lies wouldn't necessarily recognize or pay attention to certain details? It's about experience not age and a person who can sniff out people she will be able to manipulate to slide under the radar. :twocents:

I totally agree! I had three children by the time I was 24 (early 20's definitely as I had my first when I was 20) All planned and very much wanted by my husband and I. I knew plenty about children so I agree with you completely, it's all about experience and not age.
 

MissJames

a yellowflutterby changed my life : )
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
6,738
Reaction score
1,580
I talk about sociopaths a lot on here. I am blessed with having one in my life who is the bio dad of one of my children. I can tell you that I really thought that this man was an amazing father. He and I both had children from previous relationships and he was A M A Z I N G with my children and with his own. I was really excited about our daughter and couldn't wait to see how he would act with her and what an amazing life she would have with this wonderful man........who told me he was going to do something and would be back in time for dinner, 8 days before she was born and the next time I saw him I was having my cheek swabbed for a DNA test. Not because he thought that she wasn't his, but by his own admission to the nurse doing the test he was "stalling." Child support in VA is due from the date you file--unless! You request a DNA test and no matter how many continuances you ask for, the money doesn't start being due until the day you get them into court, even though you are mailed the results within 10 days. In her 4 years, he has not spent 24 hours total with her and goes sometimes 9 months without even sending a text message to as if she is okay.

Some of you may remember a couple weeks ago I mentioned this and said that out of the blue he wanted to start having her for weekends and I was going to be fighting it. I was told this on Easter, in the middle of a visit that lasted no more than 1.5 hours. At the 1.5 hour mark, he "got sick" and would be back in a day or two to see her again. He promised. He promised her. Haven't heard from him since. ;)

Another sociopath that I know of is my kid's step grandfather on their father's side. I can't even begin to go into detail, but he is a vile individual who I suspect of child abuse and sexual abuse to more than one person. I have no proof, so until I can get some there is little I can do. Especially since he is a coach for the Special Olympics, made coach of the year several times, Parent Volunteer of the year 3 years running at the school his daughter attends, Best Coach in the League for Baseball 2 years running and the list goes on and on. When he comes home at night he tells his wife how much he can't stand spending all of his time with "Those retards." One of which is his own daughter.

Sorry to be long winded. But sociopaths can fool the best of us. I fully believe that she could pull off being super mom. Older, talking, getting into stuff Caylee wasn't around that long. :(

I'm so glad you told us this.It's important stuff and what insight ! I hate that you and your children must endure the fallout and hope you stay safe.
 

Spangle

New Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
1,858
Reaction score
1
I never even considered that but you are 100% right. I know my mother AND grandmother both would DIE if I had ever done anything like that with my children...it's so taboo for their generation. Also, the women from that generation, will not necessarily think GA 'hitting' ICA is abuse because like some previous posters have pointed out on various threads...it was not uncommon for their generation to be hit/spanked with spoons, etc.

Yes. And they would think it wrong if Caylee wasn't punished in some way when she misbehaved. AS mothers and g-mothers,t hey would know that all kids misbehave at some point. It's how they learn right from wrong. Not seen as a bad kid.

Actually, they would think that GA didn't punish her enough, since she still thinks it's ok to lie and steal. Seems more spoiled then abused.
 

ColdDayIn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
445
Reaction score
290
I think the problem is that we don't want to believe a person can just snap. That there HAS to be signs. Other wise, it could happen to any of us. A friend of mine has bought JB's opening statements. She has a hard time believing that this Mother could do that to her child. Just can't get past that point.

But, about what you were saying. It only takes a second. I strong shake, and some kids are killed. Not all parents "ment' to kill their child. It might have been the 1 and only time. Yet it happens. IT only takes a second to take things to far, no going back.

WE have all seen her temper. Hers and her Mothers (CA) If she was fit to be tied from an argument between her and her Mother (CA), it might not have taken much to make a scene from "Mommy Dearest" that might have been the only time she totally lost it that bad. When they drove off, Caylee might be reacting to the stressful event. Crying, maybe wanting to go home. Which to ICA might be seen as wanting to go to CA.

Remember, all the research and story's was pointing to the G-Parents death, not the baby. She might not have been planning on murdering Caylee. It might just have happened during a fit of rage. That she later excused some how in her mind. Turning it all into 'about' her hatred of CA.

She would not have HAD to have been an abusive Mother, to have lost it that night in a fit of rage, go to far and kill her daughter.

You are right. I had never thought about it like that at all, but that really makes sense. Thanks for giving me a different POV. It's so hard to fathom this whole situation anyway.
 

Pink Panther

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
10,715
Reaction score
150
Bill Sheaffer commented today that a few of the Jurors are women in their 50's and 60's and as he said they are from a completely different generational mindset when it comes to a young mother taking her child to late night parties, different beds, sharing beds with casual boyfriends, and he expects that will "not elevate ICA in their opinion of her mothering". They will not think she was the good mother that JB would have them think...
I think a lot of younger mothers would agree with their 50 and 60 -year old counterparts as well. We've already seen a couple of younger women testifying that would likely agree with women of an older generation.

moo
 

Pink Panther

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
10,715
Reaction score
150
You are right. I had never thought about it like that at all, but that really makes sense. Thanks for giving me a different POV. It's so hard to fathom this whole situation anyway.
Ok. So...How does three pieces of duct tape wrapped around her nose, mouth, jaw and hair with a cute heart sticker fit?
 

MissJames

a yellowflutterby changed my life : )
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
6,738
Reaction score
1,580
I think the problem is that we don't want to believe a person can just snap. That there HAS to be signs. Other wise, it could happen to any of us. A friend of mine has bought JB's opening statements. She has a hard time believing that this Mother could do that to her child. Just can't get past that point.

But, about what you were saying. It only takes a second. I strong shake, and some kids are killed. Not all parents "ment' to kill their child. It might have been the 1 and only time. Yet it happens. IT only takes a second to take things to far, no going back.

WE have all seen her temper. Hers and her Mothers (CA) If she was fit to be tied from an argument between her and her Mother (CA), it might not have taken much to make a scene from "Mommy Dearest" that might have been the only time she totally lost it that bad. When they drove off, Caylee might be reacting to the stressful event. Crying, maybe wanting to go home. Which to ICA might be seen as wanting to go to CA.

Remember, all the research and story's was pointing to the G-Parents death, not the baby. She might not have been planning on murdering Caylee. It might just have happened during a fit of rage. That she later excused some how in her mind. Turning it all into 'about' her hatred of CA.

She would not have HAD to have been an abusive Mother, to have lost it that night in a fit of rage, go to far and kill her daughter.
As a foster parent I have had some foster babies that had been shaken ."Shaken baby syndrome" can kill or leave children with torn retinas and brain damage. If the baby dies ,the shaker gets prosecuted.If the baby lives,they get to go back to the shaker,in my experience ,anyway.
For some reason caseworkers see it as an impulse not intended to hurt the child.:waitasec: Shaken babies were the only kids I can recall being returned to their parents.
 

Spangle

New Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
1,858
Reaction score
1
Ok. So...How does three pieces of duct tape wrapped around her nose, mouth, jaw and hair with a cute heart sticker fit?

The response was in reference to not believing that ICA didn't abuse Caylee before that night.

All these "Good Mommy" storys .. MIght be possible. But that doesn't change what happened that night.
 

Quiche

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
9,116
Reaction score
328
I've been watching the "weird" videos where no one speaks to Caylee-- I am certain that it's KC, "Kee." Caylee's reaction is perturbed, then aloof, then... you tell me. I pray there's no surprise videos coming our way, KC was a real camera hound. :mad:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBxvVckP3Ds&feature=related[/ame]
 

SkeeterWI

New Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
125
Reaction score
2
KC was SUCH a good mother, that she had to take Caylee away so KC could 'bond' with her - at the age of 3.... doesn't bonding usually happen when a child is an infant?
 

Pink Panther

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
10,715
Reaction score
150
Don't responsible mothers (young and old) who aren't wealthy (through other means) work to support and sustain their children''s well-being? I don't think that evidence shows KC as ever having held a job since the day her daughter was born. So JOSE, can you explain HOW Caylee was so well-nourished? Nicely dressed? Seemingly healthy? Who was ensuring that Caylee had the financial means to be cared for?

Her mother who doesn't seem to have been claiming funds of any kind from the government, who hadn't worked since her daughter was born, who was living with her parents with full-time days off? OK. And how was this loving, caring mother sustaining her child?

(I won't answer because I can't decide between stealing or leaching.)

moo
 

Pink Panther

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
10,715
Reaction score
150
The response was in reference to not believing that ICA didn't abuse Caylee before that night.

All these "Good Mommy" storys .. MIght be possible. But that doesn't change what happened that night.
"Good Mommy's" work so that they can pay for their childrens food, clothing, medical requirements without having to steal.

moo
 

Spangle

New Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
1,858
Reaction score
1
As a foster parent I have had some foster babies that had been shaken ."Shaken baby syndrome" can kill or leave children with torn retinas and brain damage. If the baby dies ,the shaker gets prosecuted.If the baby lives,they get to go back to the shaker,in my experience ,anyway.
For some reason caseworkers see it as an impulse not intended to hurt the child.:waitasec: Shaken babies were the only kids I can recall being returned to their parents.

I've not dealt with the babys. But I have dealt with older foster children. All returned to the parents.

Folks who think a child getting a spanking that leaves no mark is child abuse... Should hear some of the real horror story's.

Not talking about parents just loosing it and needing some help. But some really sickos.
 

Pink Panther

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
10,715
Reaction score
150
The response was in reference to not believing that ICA didn't abuse Caylee before that night.

All these "Good Mommy" storys .. MIght be possible. But that doesn't change what happened that night.
I don't believe it for a second. And I also don't believe that abuse is necessarily pummeling your child with a fist. This child probably spent hours and hours alone at home playing by herself, largely unsupervised while her mother texted, phoned, facebooked and myspaced. Geez. I wish the SA would lay the facts down a bit now...KC spent hours and hours and hours of each and every day doing these things, while Caylee was still alive! She made a full-time job of it!

moo
 

Spangle

New Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
1,858
Reaction score
1
Don't responsible mothers (young and old) who aren't wealthy (through other means) work to support and sustain their children''s well-being? I don't think that evidence shows KC as ever having held a job since the day her daughter was born. So JOSE, can you explain HOW Caylee was so well-nourished? Nicely dressed? Seemingly healthy? Who was ensuring that Caylee had the financial means to be cared for?

Her mother who doesn't seem to have been claiming funds of any kind from the government, who hadn't worked since her daughter was born, who was living with her parents with full-time days off? OK. And how was this loving, caring mother sustaining her child?

(I won't answer because I can't decide between stealing or leaching.)

moo

ICA stayed were she was able to ensure the her child was taken care off.

Sorry, I've known folks to leave a 'nice' situation, just to prove a point. And the kids were the ones who paid the price.

Do remember, CA allowed the situation. Most likely she got alot of ride out of talking about her daughter and her grand daughter.
 

Harmony 2

Administrator
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
12,874
Reaction score
22,086
I've been watching the "weird" videos where no one speaks to Caylee-- I am certain that it's KC, "Kee." Caylee's reaction is perturbed, then aloof, then... you tell me. I pray there's no surprise videos coming our way, KC was a real camera hound. :mad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBxvVckP3Ds&feature=related

The silent treatment:


You are giving people the silent treatment when you shut down to them, closing your heart and refusing to interact with them or acknowledge their presence. You act as if they are invisible, not responding to them at all or giving them a very minimal and withheld response. Your hope in treating them this way is that they will get the message that they have displeased you. They have done something wrong in your eyes and deserve to be punished, deserve to have your "love" taken away.

While it may seem to you to work for the moment, there are huge negative consequences following the silent treatment. Children feel unloved and unlovable, developing deep beliefs about their inadequacy. While they may comply to avoid your withdrawal of approval, inwardly they are likely to feel lonely and heartbroken - feelings that they can't handle - so they become angry and resistant to manage the feelings.
http://mental-health-matters.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1500
 

Pink Panther

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
10,715
Reaction score
150
I've been watching the "weird" videos where no one speaks to Caylee-- I am certain that it's KC, "Kee." Caylee's reaction is perturbed, then aloof, then... you tell me. I pray there's no surprise videos coming our way, KC was a real camera hound. :mad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBxvVckP3Ds&feature=related
It sounds to me like she's saying "watchy Kee". I don't know what to make of these "silent" videos. I have taken videos of my child without talking but they've been of precious moments that I did not want to interrupt. Dancing. Laughing. Getting into mischief. Here, I'm not quite sure what the point is but I also cannot claim it to be nefarious. It bothers me that Caylee is obviously trying to interact without getting a response but, it's difficult to pinpoint anything untoward. I found the video with KC filming Caylee from underneath the High Chair a bit more perplexing and disturbing.

moo
 

BigFatMommyDog

Active Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
4,933
Reaction score
5
I never even considered that but you are 100% right. I know my mother AND grandmother both would DIE if I had ever done anything like that with my children...it's so taboo for their generation. Also, the women from that generation, will not necessarily think GA 'hitting' ICA is abuse because like some previous posters have pointed out on various threads...it was not uncommon for their generation to be hit/spanked with spoons, etc.

Perhaps - but I'm in that 50 group and I know we were far too busy being "cool" than dare admit what was going on around us was "uncool" (so you had a baby... cool). I think you're seeing the same type of group-think among ICA"s friends. I graduated in 77 and ten years before that (age 60 plus now) would have been 1967. Quite a year. I think aging, perspective and and responsibility probably plays a major role in changing that, but I assure you a great many of us at the time were just trying to live up to the cool tag then, now we shudder....
 

Aedrys

If justice doesn't get you, karma will.
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
6,719
Reaction score
17
KC was SUCH a good mother, that she had to take Caylee away so KC could 'bond' with her - at the age of 3.... doesn't bonding usually happen when a child is an infant?

This is what seals it for me. There is no way three years go by and a good mother doesn't bond with her child at all. Cindy was so concerned about this, she wanted Casey and Caylee to go off together and bond. That is not a good mother. That is a spoiled child who made a mistake, was never made to be responsible for it, and who acted more like an annoyed babysitter or older sister stuck with looking after a younger sister, not a mother.

I don't think there was a whole lot of physical abuse because Cindy wouldn't stand for that. She's a nurse, and she would know how injuries came to be. She would get instant custody of Caylee if Casey was really physically abusing her. I do think there was a lot of mental abuse and neglect, though. Let me tell you, mental abuse and neglect can't be physically seen, but can be just as bad or worse than physical abuse. Just because Caylee looked healthy and was dressed and fed doesn't mean Casey wasn't playing serious mental games with her and then ignoring her when she got annoyed and had enough of Caylee. I don't think Casey was emotionally there for Caylee, and that is not a good mother.

Bottom line, Casey was NOT a good mother. Not in any sense of the word, and I don't even think she ever loved Caylee. She is a sociopath and the only person she can possibly love is herself. Repeating what I started with, good mothers don't need to go bond with their kids at age THREE. They should be doing that from the time the child is BORN! Or at least, bonding shouldn't have been a concern three years AFTER Caylee was born. Casey should have already bonded with Caylee if she truly was a good mother.

Caylee was just a tool to get Casey what she wanted, attention on herself. And when more attention was put on Caylee than her, Caylee had to go. Casey couldn't stand someone else getting more attention than her, especially more attention from GA and CA. Casey was the only princess, and she made sure it stayed that way, at least until Baez's opening statements. I wonder if she thought her parents would look past it and still worship her. How wrong she was!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top