Mother of one of Lisa Irwin’s half brothers speaks out

[greenpalm]

Sole physical custody means that a child shall reside with and be under the supervision of one parent, subject to the power of the court to order visitation. If a child lives with only one parent, that parent has sole physical custody and is said to be the custodial parent. The other parent is said to be the non-custodial parent, and may or may not have visitation rights with his/her child. If Jeremy wanted his child to spend any time with his mother, (even supervised visitation) he could ask for changes in visitation.

The comment from Raim's parents (first few days after Lisa disappeared) was that Jeremy was ruthless in seeking custody of the eight-year-old.

Or he may have been ruthless because that's what he is. The speculation can swing both ways. A woman who has little education, no job or means of support such as DB is perfect prey for an abuser. Refusing to allow DB to be interviewed alone and not allowing the interviews of the boys are HUGE red flags.

JMO

Yes, that's also possible, but he sure doesn't come across that way everytim Deborah cuts him off mid sentence in an interview. He speaks so softly, and he keeps his head down. Deborah seems a lot more assertive than he does, we don't know that it's Jeremy making those refusals. We really don't know anything.

 

[Abby Normal]

We certainly should not assume just because she has an attorney now, she could also afford an attorney years ago. This attorney may be Legal Aid provided so that she can file for emergency, temporary custody of her son until this is sorted out.


JMO

According to casenet posted by someone else in this thread she has the same lawyer now that she had then. It was linked and not snipped, so I assume it's allowed.

not directed at you, just including a disclaimer:
Since it seems infinitely unclear, let me just emphasize that I do not believe this woman did anything wrong. I simply objected to the ASSUMPTION that JI was a controlling abuser who denied her the right to her child. Nothing more than suggesting we need more information.

 

[MyBelle]

:waiting: I've been through this custody battle thingy on the board with ron cummings. He was a horrible parent, never married the mother and got full custody.

Whoever has physical custody of the child at the time of filing usually winds up the winner. It takes thousands and thousands of dollars to get an attorney to fight. Somtimes, all it comes down to is who has the most money. I am getting the impression that jeremy's family has money. Jeremy may have presented the court with house ownership (his parents gift). We may be looking at a better schooled and funded parent in this battle.

As in the Cummings case, jeremy had a place to live, a job, insurance and his parents may have told the courts they would babysit the child while he worked...dollars to donuts, he had an attorney.

Don't assume just because the mother didn't get custody that she did something bad.....not necessarily.

ITA. The mother may have feared he would make her life or perhaps the child's life pretty miserable if she put up any kind of fight. Or, he may have agreed to visitation and then failed to honor the agreement. So much we still do not know.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

According to casenet posted by someone else in this thread she has the same lawyer now that she had then. It was linked and not snipped, so I assume it's allowed.

Since it seems infinitely unclear, let me just emphasize that I do not believe this woman did anything wrong. I simply objected to the ASSUMPTION that JI was a controlling abuser who denied her the right to her child. Nothing more than suggesting we need more information.

I'm going by the story that states the mother said she has not been allowed to see her son in years. Who was she referring to if not JI? Who was both Dr. Drew and Nancy Grace referring to when they said JI had not allowed any interviews of DI without him? His lawyer?

JMO

 

[KCMommie]

Yes, that's also possible, but he sure doesn't come across that way everytim Deborah cuts him off mid sentence in an interview. He speaks so softly, and he keeps his head down. Deborah seems a lot more assertive than he does, we don't know that it's Jeremy making those refusals. We really don't know anything.

Don't let the quiet ones fool ya! IMVHO! Actions should always speak louder than words.

I personally know someone who is a control freak that acts exactly as JI does. You would think he is as simple and dumb as a bag of rocks! These are the scary types to me! You may not see them coming.

IN fact, these type of abusers look to get involved with those who they deem "less intelligent" than they are, or people with a low self esteem. (This could be male or females) They tend to foster that sense in their partner to remain in control. This topic .. will rabbit trail, so I will say as before... It is also not uncommon for two PD's to get together... Codependents and Abusers... then the Co dependent take on qualities of the abuser. I'm NOT saying this for sure in this case, but a couple of posters have raised this question in other threads and right now, the idea is plausible.

I'll wait until facts are in on that one.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, that's also possible, but he sure doesn't come across that way everytim Deborah cuts him off mid sentence in an interview. He speaks so softly, and he keeps his head down. Deborah seems a lot more assertive than he does, we don't know that it's Jeremy making those refusals. We really don't know anything.

DB may be trying to make him feel that she supports him and is trying to protect him so that he'll reveal where Lisa is to be found.

JMO

 

[Jacie Estes]

If you miss your hearing date, if takes months to reschedule IF you are allowed to reschedule. Many indigent women don't know how to reschedule a hearing and can't pay an attorney to help them. I am a advocate for those falsely accused of child abuse/neglect by CPS and for those that must attend family court hearings. Go read on forums about CPS abuse or family court forums. If you don't believe any of those individuals and their stories, read this from NPR. The reservation is not the only place where unfair practices occur involving CPS and family courts.

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/25/141662357/incentives-and-cultural-bias-fuel-foster-system?ps=cprs

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/26/141700018/tribes-question-foster-groups-power-and-influence

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/25/141672992/native-foster-care-lost-children-shattered-families

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/25/141650809/a-fight-for-her-grandchildren-mirrors-a-native-past

****

Excellent links, thank you. I had heard of Ms. Howe and her problems through friends. One of the reasons that I came back to South Dakota was because it is IMHO one of the most politically corrupt states in the country. There is a, I'll use the word BIAS, here that is apparent every day.

ICWA has very specific parameters but in a poor state money talks and BS walks. To deprive these children of their connection to cultural practice is abhorent. That said, I think that there are women of any/every ethnicity who face uphill battles if they do not have the money/support in a court battle.

 

[Abby Normal]

I'm going by the story that states the mother said she has not been allowed to see her son in years. Who was she referring to if not JI? Who was both Dr. Drew and Nancy Grace referring to when they said JI had not allowed any interviews of DI without him? His lawyer?

JMO

I don't know. Because we have lots and lots of words, and very few facts.

Also JMO

 

[CanManEh]

How do you start a new threat can anyone help?. different topic completly

 

[carole]

I'm going by the story that states the mother said she has not been allowed to see her son in years. Who was she referring to if not JI? Who was both Dr. Drew and Nancy Grace referring to when they said JI had not allowed any interviews of DI without him? His lawyer?

JMO

BBM

To quote the article, "Raim said she has not been able to see her son for years."

"Not been able to" might mean JI keep her son from her, or she doesn't have enough money to take time off from work or buy gas, or maybe she doesn't have a car, or some other kind of problem.

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...irwins-half-brothers-speaks-out#ixzz1bxdGtLVn

 

[Jaxson]

How do you start a new threat can anyone help?. different topic completly

Go out to the main page of the forum and look for forum tools where all the threads are listed (starting with media and at the top) click the forum tools and new thread option is there.

 

[katshep]

I looked over the legal documents (what little info is available) and for the life of me can't figure it out. I'm not a lawyer though - LOL!

If someone wants to take a peek, here's the link:
https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/nameSearch.do

I'm not sure what happened...?

(ETA: And unless I'm missing something major, I'm not sure the boy's mother fully understands her legal rights. Could that be?)

No, mother was represented by counsel until March 2009 when her lawyer moved to withdraw as counsel. Both parties had attorneys and each party filed for temporary custody resulting in contested hearings that resolved in JI's obtaining sole custody. (I do not see the order/judgment in the docket.) Both parents were ordered to the standard parent education class.
There have been no further filings since, so mother has not pursued the matter through the courts.

 

[MyBelle]

BBM

To quote the article, "Raim said she has not been able to see her son for years."

"Not been able to" might mean JI keep her son from her, or she doesn't have enough money to take time off from work or buy gas, or maybe she doesn't have a car, or some other kind of problem.

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...irwins-half-brothers-speaks-out#ixzz1bxdGtLVn

"Not being able" means something or someone prevented her. I don't know too many mothers who would stay away for years just because they are low on gas money. I also don't view it as a coincidence that the other boy's father also has not seen his son in years.

I think the "problem" is the same for both these parents.

JMO

 

[Jacie Estes]

I've stated previously that the reason I was never adopted out was because of my ethnicity. Indian Child Welfare Act Of 1978. I am familiar with native issues, and most of what you posted above.

You seem to have the impression that I think she's guilty? I've said in most of my posts otherwise.

My previous comments for reference:
post 1- "Who knows THIS situation, but I think we should judge this situation for what it is and what we know and not assume it's the man's fault. MOO"
post 2- "Absolutely. We shouldn't assume anything about either of them without information. JMO."
post 4- "I'm not saying this is the mom's fault. I'm saying that we should not assume it's JI's fault. I'm just saying that dead-beat mothers also exist."
post 6- "ITA that if there isn't a major negative reason for her to be denied visitation, that she shouldn't be."

I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it that I don't think we should assume anything about EITHER parent without more information. Dad or Mom. :waitasec: I never said she was in the wrong, I am saying it's a 50/50 shot in either direction. :waitasec:

BBM I agree, we don't know the whole story and may never; is it germaine to what happened to Lisa. Unknown and unsleuthable.

My Mom and my gmother on my Dad's side were adopted out pre ICWA; I wish that people understood the harm that it does to seperate Native/AI children from their families, their culture and their inherent nature.

 

[carole]

"Not being able" means something or someone prevented her. I don't know too many mothers who would stay away for years just because they are low on gas money. I also don't view it as a coincidence that the other boy's father also has not seen his son in years.

I think the "problem" is the same for both these parents.

JMO

BBM

Absolutely, I agree with my bolded above in your comment.

I was just saying that everyone who was blaming the mom should not be so critical of her because we really don't know her circumstances.

 

[Abby Normal]

BBM I agree, we don't know the whole story and may never; is it germaine to what happened to Lisa. Unknown and unsleuthable.

My Mom and my gmother on my Dad's side were adopted out pre ICWA; I wish that people understood the harm that it does to seperate Native/AI children from their families, their culture and their inherent nature.

I do agree that if at all possible, a child should be kept closely to the community.

It's hard to make that mesh with my belief that a permanent adoptive home is better than bouncing through fosters when no other option is present. JMO, and my opinion is obviously biased by my own experience.

I could make a strong argument for both of the sentiments above, unfortunately. I think I see way too much gray and not enough black and white. :crazy:

 

[HatesSociopaths]

What is perhaps telling is the timeline of this article. She got an interview days after Lisa's disappearance, but the video was off of a cell phone. Perhaps the producer rejected this and the article was shelved, then reignited with the boys being interviewed on Friday. She was called and talked to on Wednesday, but her attorney said no camera interview so they had to go with the cell phone footage, IMO. What may be going on is that she NOW has an attorney. A notable thing she said on Wednesday is that she is worried about her son. Worry = problem, and perhaps part of the solution to that problem is that she wants custody, and so got an attorney for this. MOO. I am hopeful this is the case.

Speculation: It should not be overlooked that this custody battle in 2008 was right about when Debbie entered the picture. It is not a given that the viciousness was originating from Jeremy, perhaps he was just the lapdog boyfriend doing what his girlfriend told him was best. MOO.

 

[Abby Normal]

What is perhaps telling is the timeline of this article. She got an interview days after Lisa's disappearance, but the video was off of a cell phone. Perhaps the producer rejected this and the article was shelved, then reignited with the boys being interviewed on Friday. She was called and talked to on Wednesday, but her attorney said no camera interview so they had to go with the cell phone footage, IMO. What may be going on is that she NOW has an attorney. A notable thing she said on Wednesday is that she is worried about her son. Worry = problem, and perhaps part of the solution to that problem is that she wants custody, and so got an attorney for this. MOO. I am hopeful this is the case.

Speculation: It should not be overlooked that this custody battle in 2008 was right about when Debbie entered the picture. It is not a given that the viciousness was originating from Jeremy, perhaps he was just the lapdog boyfriend doing what his girlfriend told him was best. MOO.

It's the same attorney she had at the time of the custody hearings according to casenet linked earlier in this thread.

It's also a defense attorney who specializes in criminal matters but also sometimes takes a variety of things, including uncontested divorces. http://www.savorylawfirm.com/practice_areas

Please delete this if it counts as sleuthing. The attorney is quoted in the article and I looked up her public information website that she put out for advertising- not undercover sneaking or searching. :innocent:

 

[HatesSociopaths]

It's the same attorney she had at the time of the custody hearings according to casenet linked earlier in this thread.

It's also a defense attorney who specializes in criminal matters but also sometimes takes a variety of things, including uncontested divorces. http://www.savorylawfirm.com/practice_areas

Please delete this if it counts as sleuthing. The attorney is quoted in the article and I looked up her public information website that she put out for advertising- not undercover sneaking or searching. :innocent:

Thanks. So let me morph my speculation to fit that. She decided to have the custody battle re-opened, and called the attorney she felt comfortable with who handled the earlier court matters with her. MOO.

 

[MyBelle]

BBM I agree, we don't know the whole story and may never; is it germaine to what happened to Lisa. Unknown and unsleuthable.

My Mom and my gmother on my Dad's side were adopted out pre ICWA; I wish that people understood the harm that it does to seperate Native/AI children from their families, their culture and their inherent nature.

I'm lost I guess. Is there someone in this case who is native American and was adopted?