Motion for protective order to destroy videos of family visits

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The part I don't quite get is that the defense has not requested (in the Motion) that the jail visit audios be "sealed". They only request that all past videos be destroyed (ridiculous because they are already out in the media in a multitude of copies), and they request that any future visits not be recorded at all (not recorded -- then sealed from public publication).
It seems to me that the Motion is asking for special treatment of their client, and it will not be granted.
I do not understand why the Defense has not specifically asked that the videos be sealed?
It is my opinion that the Defense does not want to lose complete control of what their client says to her family and vice versa, and be put in the position of having to do damage control, after the fact, and on a public stage.

Interesting point. I think that Casey in her August visitation videos made it very clear that she was well aware of the Sunshine Laws and the fact that the videos would be released; she stated clearly that "the press is going to have a field day" in the video of her mother pushing her for information. Given the number of legal advisers available to all of them as well as their clear conciousness of the cameras, I think that they may face an uphill battle on having any of the videos destroyed given that it is the status quo for all other inmates and employees in the jail.

I think that they should go to the mat to try and prevent the videos of Casey when she learned of the discovery on Suburban Drive because they are clearly indicative of guilt-JMO based on the amount of fire power being devoted to destroying any and all tape of their client. It is inspired to use the rights of non inmates (visitors) as a springboard if that is what they are doing.

Ah hah! This may be exactly what they are going for! Never mind that some of these previous videos are now posted on You Tube. Let's just try to get all past tapes destroyed, which would include the video of her reaction of course, and move on from there! And they want to accuse the SA of destroying evidence? GMAB!
 
The difference is...

that the murderer in prison has been convicted and their conversations are most likely not audio recorded (although they may be video monitored), while KC is not convicted, there is a criminal investigation underway, and everything she says on a phone or in a visitation (other than her attorneys' visits) is open to audio taping for the purpose of gleaning evidence.

The language of the Florida Sunshine Law is such that any record USED FOR THE PURPOSE OF CONDUCTING GOVERNMENT ACTIVITIES is subject to the Sunshine Law and available to the public upon request. Because anything that KC says on the phone or in a family visit can (and will!!!) be used against her in a court of law toward the prosecution's attempt at conviction, it qualifies as "used for the purpose of conducting government activities" and therefore is subject to the Sunshine Law.

In other words, the Sunshine Law is not there so we can hear what prisoners say - but there to make government business transparent to the taxpayer so they can see that their government activities are being conducted properly.

Well put Valhall and additionally, I don't understand how the videos impair KC's right to a fair trial. Jurors must be able to render a verdict based on evidence presented at the time of trial. We have seen too many high profile trials that resulted in acquitals, hung-juries or mistrials for us to presume that publicity equals tainting the jury pool. Where do we draw the line in providing information to the public regarding a crime and its investigation without compromising a fair trial? To assume jurors are unable to make these decisions on their own is an insult to the intellegence of the jurors and the entire jury based trial system.
 
Honestly, I am no fan of Casey Anthony...but Florida's law is so weird in this regard! Here in Oregon we have murderers in jails and no one will be privy to their visits from family. How on earth is KC supposed to have a fair trial when every conversation she has had with family is released prior to her day(s) in court? I guess they just hope that some jurors aren't interested enough to look at these things..they'll be jurors who don't watch the news? I think it is a very strange situation ---that we are "allowed" access to all these conversations. They've been very entertaining...but it is so odd. I know that it is unlikely that suddenly KC would start having real conversations with people (sans code) but I have to think it would be helpful to all involved if she could. Maybe she would confess and the taxpayers of Florida would save a couple Mil!

Florida Taxpayers must have voted on this, I'd love to know how the A's voted? We are privy to KC's visits with her family b/c HER MOTHER and her LAWYER couldn't stay away from any camera, keeping our interest in the case by outraging us with the lies. Before Caylee was discovered, CA was out defending KC daily or nearly. Even after Caylee was found, CA (sometimes dragging GA and BC along) still went out and found the cameras. As did JB. If they'd have just kept their pie holes closed we wouldn''t have given a darn about KC. Ask for searchers for Caylee, where ever LE believed they should look and the public would have obliged. But she just couldn't leave it at that. So, IMO,. the A's and JB brought most of this on themselves Sunshine Laws or no. MOO
 
While Sunshine Laws mandate that discovery is made public, it is still okay to have items "under investigation" withheld from the media for a time.

If JB wants to use this as an "investigative tool", he could do that, couldn't he, and simply hand it over as discovery later to the prosecution who could then turn it over to the media when they, too, were through investigating its value.

I'm not for private visits or special treatment, but I think this whole ploy is JB's attempt at damage control. I think AL wants the family to have a talk with their daughter about how nonsensical certain "strategy" in this case has been up to now. She probably has no real influence over her client at this point - JB and KC have mixed spit in their Twizzlers and KC is not intelligent enough - or is too isolated - to see how damaging his entire year of "defending" her has been. I think the Anthony family tried earlier, with BC, around the memorial.

Once again, there's nothing this family can "corroborate" or cook up any more. They've had plenty of time for that in the almost two months KC was out on bail. Not to mention they collectively have the credibility of hallucinations.

Why couldn't they simply have a private visit first and have Judge Strickland decide if the motion should hold after he hears the conversation?

This is a possibility, although I think Casey has "put all her eggs in one basket" so to speak in relying solely on JB. AL may not have any control over her client, as you say, but I wonder if George and Cindy have any control left at this point?
 
I'm no lawyer. But from what I understand, the 'right to privacy' isn't an expectation when a person is an inmate. If they thought they had it, they loose it out during their first cavity search.

The cameras are for everyone's protection. The Jail states they are not going to stop filming. And Visitation is done via camea phones. The visiter is actually across the street from the Jail. So there is no way to visit, except by being filmed.

This process was put in place to combat drugs and other no-nos from being passed from visitors to inmates. It also makes it easier for "Big Brother" to monitor all conversations and record them. Which of course, they do. EVERYONE knows this when they visit. Including the Anthonys's.

I believe these such recording have all ready been used in other cases that have been tried.

The only difference is that all the Drama that the A's have made of these case, had drawn so much interest, that even their jail house visits want to be heard by the media and public at large. If they had boring meetings, folks would eventually leave them alone.


Prisoners have NO RIGHTS to privacy. Guards can and do look into the cells on a routine basis. Cameras are everywhere.

I pray that there's not a chance that the defense will win this motion. It's not like what they are doing to Casey is anything more than they do with all the prisoners.

Any phone call from jail immeditely brings forth a routine mesage that this call is being taped - and this message is heard by both the caller and the receiver. So it should be no surprise to anyone that everything being done is being taped. These tapes are used if any altercation breaks out between prisoners to determine the origins aand the instigator. They work FOR the prisoner's safety as much as for the jailhouse information.

I say let Baez spend the night in jail and get beaten up. I think his attitude about video taping would change dramatically if they were needed to prove HIS point.
 
I may be wrong here, as I have really only worked cases in Virginia but I believe, actually Oregon must be unique! I have not gone and looked up Orgeon's laws on this and would have to at a later time, but I have tried to explain this with some other cases that we have been looking into but there hasn't been one to explain it yet. Huckabee has everything sealed and gagged up and there is no defendant yet with Haleigh.

The reason that you can always hear a 911 call in pretty much any case is because 911 calls are public record. My understanding is that Florida is unique in that they specifically write their Sunshine Laws to include the media? Please correct if I am wrong, I live in VA. However, if you think all this paperwork that we have been getting in Discovery (Doc Dumps) is fascinating just in this case, you couldn't be more wrong. These types of things are released to the public in ALL cases, at least here in VA and in FL. I can't really think of any state where discovery isn't public record, as are trial transcripts. Once Misty C has been arrested, (sorry had to, moo ;) ) and lawyered up (court appointed most likely), and discovery has been handed over to the defense and filed with the State, someone could go down and get that Discovery like dear Muzikman does for us. :)blowkiss: @ Muzikman) Someone could go down to the court house and get all of the info on the Huckabee case once that is all over with and she has had her trial and the seals are all lifted (might not every happen on autopsy, however the info on the injuries and such will most likely be in the trial transcripts :()

This could be done in pretty much every state that I know of. Anything that is public record is available for any tax paying citizen of that state or commonwealth. Once the trial is over you can go down and get the trial transcripts if you want. Often times these things are not done, not only by media but every day citizens alike because of the expense. Some states are allowed to charge as much as a dollar a page, even if given on disc!

Also, there is not a state that I know of that does not record, both video and especially audio every visit and ever phone call. Those calls are used A LOT in court. Anything that can be used in court is public record. You would have to go down and requests the videos of the prisoner (Like I said, Maybe not in Oregon, maybe they are different there) and pay the "reasonable fee" under the law for obtaining the item and then you walk away with it. Post it on the net if you want, give it to the media, whatever. Bring it to your friends here at WS! Hint, hint, ;);) Think how great it would be if we could get all of this kind of info on every case! Perhaps this case will cause other news outlets to pay more in depth attention to other cases like they have this one. Now that the public knows what discovery is and how much good stuff is in there they can help make the WS members job/hobby easier! NOTE: I am not asking anyone to do this, and would never expect anyone to do so if they could not afford it. Just mentioning how nice it would be if we had the info or other news stations did this in other cases so that the public didn't have to put out the big bucks it sometimes costs to get all the papers.

I also believe that this is helping to educate the public on how the criminal justice system works. Always a good thing. A million times over I have wished that the people in VA understood that we have a court rule here that states that any evidence of innocence that comes up more than 21 days after sentencing is FOREVER barred from judicial review all the way to the Supreme court. And by judicial review I mean it can NEVER be brought up in court. There was a guy here convicted of murdering his brother, who was actually still alive but had left the state in a huff. When he returned home we took him into court and said that the client could not be guilty because the person he "murdered" was still alive. It took more than 2 more years to get him out. Sorry Charlie! Been more than 21 days, so we are not allowed to look at that evidence, and you can't appeal my decision on that because the appeals courts are not allowed to look at anything the original court didn't look at and so on up the line. I think it is wonderful how many people, here and everywhere are learning how the legal system works to follow this case. Caylee has done amazing things in her tragic death. I can only imagine what she would have accomplished had she been allow to live and grow. :(

I will probably look up Oregon later. I am curious. And if any of you do request something and they deny you, you can always submit a FOIA request (might have to anyway, here we can just go into the court and ask for it), but in most cases you must be a tax paying resident and by resident, you have to legally reside there and carry a state ID or they can easily and quickly deny you and they do notice where they are sending things. If the FOIA request is denied they must give you good cause and state the law and legal reason for your denial as well as give you appeal procedures so that you can appeal if you choose to do so. Any if anyone is looking for information on FOIA requests, I do not know the procedure for all states, but am working on it for a little project of my own so I would be happy to help anyone looking to do so with how it is done.

I must add that GOOD defense attornies will tell their clients to NOT go for publicity and bringing the media into the trial.
 
Honestly, I am no fan of Casey Anthony...but Florida's law is so weird in this regard! Here in Oregon we have murderers in jails and no one will be privy to their visits from family. How on earth is KC supposed to have a fair trial when every conversation she has had with family is released prior to her day(s) in court? I guess they just hope that some jurors aren't interested enough to look at these things..they'll be jurors who don't watch the news? I think it is a very strange situation ---that we are "allowed" access to all these conversations. They've been very entertaining...but it is so odd. I know that it is unlikely that suddenly KC would start having real conversations with people (sans code) but I have to think it would be helpful to all involved if she could. Maybe she would confess and the taxpayers of Florida would save a couple Mil!

This is the best option for Casey, if she's smart enough to recognize it. If she confessed and asked for mercy, it's a good possibility that the death penalty would be eliminated in exchange for life without the possibility of parole.

The real problem is that I think Casey has been led to believe that JB is going to get her out of this mess and she expects a not guilty verdict at trial. She thinks she's going walk free.

For his part, I think JB has always wanted a trial so he can promote himself. From the beginning, I think JB saw this high profile case as his ticket to fame and fortune. He's not acting in Casey's best interests as much as he's looking out for his own best interests.
 
I think the granting of this motion might require an amendment of some of our state's penal infrastructure. Surely the defense team doesn't have time and manpower to devote to this task ~ Especially if they are saying they are incapable of applying such to defend Casey against the civil suit due to the Herculean efforts required for her murder trial.
 
The part I don't quite get is that the defense has not requested (in the Motion) that the jail visit audios be "sealed". They only request that all past videos be destroyed (ridiculous because they are already out in the media in a multitude of copies), and they request that any future visits not be recorded at all (not recorded -- then sealed from public publication).
It seems to me that the Motion is asking for special treatment of their client, and it will not be granted.
I do not understand why the Defense has not specifically asked that the videos be sealed?
It is my opinion that the Defense does not want to lose complete control of what their client says to her family and vice versa, and be put in the position of having to do damage control, after the fact, and on a public stage.

THIS!

The entire motion seems absurd and amatuerish (did this come from JB or AL?). It is questionable whether a Judge could actually order those videos destroyed. They are mandated records and part of the prison system. It would require changes in the penal code to effect them. Sealing the videos is a reasonable request that a good defense attorney could make. Destroying? Not making them? Demanding private unmonitorred meetings? Sorry but our favorite felon certainly has no right to that and no sane judge will entertain the idea.

And hasn't Strickland pretty much already ruled on this issue in multiple ways and times?
 
No way, IMO will this happen!! Every visit is taped, as is every phone call... not just Casey friggin' Anthony's! It's jail-they best start getting used to it now cuz it won't stop once she goes on to prison!
 
I still believe this motion to prevent videoing the family is so that KC can get straight with CA and GA what "the story" is. As has been said a hundred times already, if this was just to give privacy to a "family moment" (shiver me timbers at the thought) they would just meet, express their love and support, cry and leave. If they did that, and it was released, the defense has the chance of some positive benefit from it. "Grieving family meet for first time in almost a year" type stuff. Also, if they did meet, and that's all it was, JB could file a LEGITIMATE motion to have the judge review the tape and see that it has no relevance to the case - and probably win. (Though I don't know why he would from a legal standpoint - bein's he needs all the positive PR he can get for his client.)

But I've come to believe this whole Anthony camp (lawyers and all) are so dysfunctional that this scene is TRULY impossible for them. That, and I believe CA and GA know darned well they're staring at their granddaughter's murderer when they're looking at KC...so faking that for 30 or 45 minutes with a camera shooting you would be pretty hard (especially for GA).

The whole camp is lawyered up and committed to ignoring the truth - whatever that takes. And I don't think any of them will let another of them rebel...

During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

Universal deceit...that's what we've got going here.
 
Florida Taxpayers must have voted on this, I'd love to know how the A's voted? We are privy to KC's visits with her family b/c HER MOTHER and her LAWYER couldn't stay away from any camera, keeping our interest in the case by outraging us with the lies. Before Caylee was discovered, CA was out defending KC daily or nearly. Even after Caylee was found, CA (sometimes dragging GA and BC along) still went out and found the cameras. As did JB. If they'd have just kept their pie holes closed we wouldn''t have given a darn about KC. Ask for searchers for Caylee, where ever LE believed they should look and the public would have obliged. But she just couldn't leave it at that. So, IMO,. the A's and JB brought most of this on themselves Sunshine Laws or no. MOO

The Anthony's attitudes, as well as JB's approach, have pretty much shaped the progression of this case for Casey and may have locked her into to consequences far, far more serious than she could have been headed for without their intervention, if the truth or someother story could have out right away. Normally, in a case like this, there might have been a confession within a week or so, with reduced consequences as a result, if it was an accident or negligence. The police started right in along those lines by giving KC chances to admit that something had happened that she didn't mean to happen but had now covered up. If she'd copped to that right away and led police to the body, there may have been charges and probably jail time, but I doubt she'd be looking at anywhere close to life, let alone the DP. If there WAS an accident, or if she lost it and did something stupid, not really intending to hurt Caylee, it could have more easily been proven as such had the body been discoved sooner with the potential of physical evidence to corroborate that story. There might not have been computer searches finding chloroform had been googled or yahood. There might not even have been body farm tests of the trunk finding chloroform traces. However, in the beginning, I believe KC's initial reticence to tell the truth was stoked by a deep seeded need for her family not to find out the truth, whatever it is, or was, as well as by her own sociopathy which, by the time the police were talking to her, probably had gone full-blown. Plus, I think she fell for her lawyer.

Then, the Anthony's started spinning their own version of events in the media. Caylee WAS alive, had to be alive. KC was mother of the year. It would have been impossible for her to hurt Caylee. Nothing happened to lead to a bad situation. There was no fight. The theft from grandma was no big deal. It was only pizza. Cindy was just trying to get the cops to come faster. Yes, KC lied but she would never hurt Caylee. Caylee was alive. They had their own investigation under way and there were explanations the police were failing to follow-up. They had their own persons of interest under surveilance. KC was holding back, protecting Caylee and them. Her friends or acquaintainces did this somehow. The police were inept. There WAS a babysitter. The police hadn't checked every Zanny in the world. Maybe Zanny was a code-name for someone else. People all over had seen Caylee, but the police wouldn't investigate. Not only was KC a victim, but all the other Anthonys were victims too. In my estimation, all of that made it harder for KC to come clean, set her even more firmly in the course that her family could never know.

At the same time JB was advising her. IMO, there was some spark between them, or KC thought there was. She had a history with men. She never had any problem getting men interested, so she could usually hook them and use them to take care of her, to keep her family at bay. He probably saw her case as his e-ticket to fame. It seemed to have gotten him on Giraldo's boat. KC probably didn't want to tell him the truth any more than her family, but she may have. IMO, because I've only seen him on this case, he hasn't seemed very astude, probably because he hasn't had a lot of big-case experience. He probably told her not to talk to her family, or even to see them, because the tapes were being made and released and could be used against her. Possibly, he wanted her away from their influence, for whatever reason. A sensible family might have been more insistant that their child tell the truth, whatever that was, but the Anthony's didn't seem to necessarily want to hear the truth, and I personally believe JB may have been in the same boat.

Still, around the time of Caylee's discovery, things did seem to change. The Anthonys appearance took a drastic turn for the worse and they went uncharacteristically silent (up to Larry King just prior to the discovery of Caylee's remains.) Mark Nejame resigned. Kid finders went full-blown. A photo surfaced the Anthonys alledged could be Caylee. There would be a news conference. Then nothing. There was an interview with George doing all the talking where Cindy sat beside him looking devastated? It seemed to me that something happened. We now know a PI was out looking behind the A's on psychics' orders. Lawyers were arguing the death penalty shouldn't be out there because the state couldn't prove there was no accident. The death penalty went off the table for a while. My own belief has been that JB was after a plea but he needed the body to do it. I think the Anthonys might have been told that Caylee was gone at that point. When a body wasn't found, the A's might have gone on LK in KC protection more, or to pressure FL in some way. Of course, this is all speculation, but something sure seemed to change around that time. Then, Caylee was found and things changed again. It doesn't seem there's could be any deal. The DP went back up.

If there was an accident, or if the defense wanted to put forth that story, it seems to me the last thing they should do is wait until trial to go there. The more time that passes, the more evidence of something else that can be gathered, the better theory of something else that can be developed, the less chance there is of lower consequences. It seems like KC should have been STRONGLY advised of that by both her family and her lawyer from the beginning. I'm not sure that was done. Maybe that's where AL is trying to go now.
 
This is the best option for Casey, if she's smart enough to recognize it. If she confessed and asked for mercy, it's a good possibility that the death penalty would be eliminated in exchange for life without the possibility of parole.

The real problem is that I think Casey has been led to believe that JB is going to get her out of this mess and she expects a not guilty verdict at trial. She thinks she's going walk free.

For his part, I think JB has always wanted a trial so he can promote himself. From the beginning, I think JB saw this high profile case as his ticket to fame and fortune. He's not acting in Casey's best interests as much as he's looking out for his own best interests.

And, I believe that JB's goal is to somehow miraculously get his client out of a murder conviction because a CONVICTED felon cannot "profit" from their crime .... as in no future movie or book deals. I think JB's sole motivation is making $$$$$$$$$$$$, and everything he does is geared to accomplish that goal. IMO
 
We now know a PI was out looking behind the A's on psychics' orders. Lawyers were arguing the death penalty shouldn't be out there because the state couldn't prove there was no accident. The death penalty went off the table for a while. My own belief has been that JB was after a plea but he needed the body to do it.
<snipped for space>
Plea in exchange for giving up the location of the body? Is that what you meant? Like Hans Reiser?
Excellent summary, by-the-way!
 
Personally I do not believe that Casey cares what her family knows or does not know. She is not wired that way. She has never cared about her family one way or another except insofar as they could profit her in various ways. Casey did not lead anyone to the body for one reason alone-if she did, it would have proven that she murdered Caylee in cold, hard blood and THAT she could not have. Casey thinks she is going to walk on these charges. She is so propped up on her pedestal that she actually believes that she will either be found not guilty or will have mistrial after mistrial until she is finally allowed to walk out on those grounds. I think we give Casey way too much credit when we believe that she cares anything for her parents. Sociopaths do not care for other people except for whatever those people can do for them. Other people are just pawns to the sociopath, and their feelings never enter in to anything. She keeps her parents caught up in the lies so they WILL defend her. She knows if she came right out and told them the truth of the horror that she committed against Caylee that it is unlikely they would ever even speak to her again much less defend her...she is keeping them on a string and they are letting her do it just like they have let her do it her entire life. She may have told them that Caylee's death was an accident and they are believing that, but there is not a chance that she told them she murdered her baby...not a chance.

And if they need to get their stories straight, well, they can do that through the attorneys can't they? Their conversations are not recorded, so they can certainly iron out the wrinkles in their lies through the mouthpiece of Jose or Ms. Lyons or any of the other entourage of attorneys they have working for them. A private meeting to get their stories straight is prohibited at this stage-she is incarcerated on murder charges and that ain't how it's done...sorry Anythonys, sorry defense team, this is not going to fly and it shouldn't.
 
I've read a few people suggest getting their stories straight through counsel. The problem with that is -- it's too risky for the attorney. JB and KC discussing lies to be told is one thing; it's her word against his. But when one has a room full of people discussing a fraud upon the court that's a whole 'nother ballgame. When the A's all turn on the attorney facilitating this little fabrication festival, it's bye-bye ticket to ride due to the ethical violation(s) suborning perjury.

That's why the family needs to meet alone without counsel. The family clearly has no ethical obligation and from their behaviors, no moral compass either.
 
And, I believe that JB's goal is to somehow miraculously get his client out of a murder conviction because a CONVICTED felon cannot "profit" from their crime .... as in no future movie or book deals. I think JB's sole motivation is making $$$$$$$$$$$$, and everything he does is geared to accomplish that goal. IMO

I don't think JB is worried about KC's ability to profit from her crimes; it's his own ability to profit from her crimes that is his only concern.
 
No way, IMO will this happen!! Every visit is taped, as is every phone call... not just Casey friggin' Anthony's! It's jail-they best start getting used to it now cuz it won't stop once she goes on to prison!

The sense of entitlement and self-celebrity of this family is truly mind boggling. I'll never understand it nor why the media allows/encourages it.
 
THIS!

The entire motion seems absurd and amatuerish (did this come from JB or AL?). It is questionable whether a Judge could actually order those videos destroyed. They are mandated records and part of the prison system. It would require changes in the penal code to effect them. Sealing the videos is a reasonable request that a good defense attorney could make. Destroying? Not making them? Demanding private unmonitorred meetings? Sorry but our favorite felon certainly has no right to that and no sane judge will entertain the idea.

And hasn't Strickland pretty much already ruled on this issue in multiple ways and times?

He has and always against the defense. One has to wonder if the lack of recent headlines motivated this recent ploy? Or is AL really that uninformed about this case?
 
I think the granting of this motion might require an amendment of some of our state's penal infrastructure. Surely the defense team doesn't have time and manpower to devote to this task ~ Especially if they are saying they are incapable of applying such to defend Casey against the civil suit due to the Herculean efforts required for her murder trial.

Oh, but don't you see -- this is part of the Herculean efforts necessary to adquately defend a patently guilty defendant! Along with change of venue, teaching schedules and other self-made issues...
 
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