Movies...

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by twilight, Apr 2, 2005.

  1. twilight

    twilight Inactive

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    I just had a great idea. I was responding to BlueCrab on another thread. S/he insists that only young boys watch the kind of movies that parallel the ransom note references like from Ruthless People, and Ransom. I disagree, but that is neither here nor there.

    The challenge I am proposing for this thread is to list MOVIES and TV shows from say 1990 - 1996 that the Ramseys would have watched. These movies and TV shows must contain no references that could be used in a ransom note. They can't be funny, or violent. They can't be action adventure as BlueCrab maintains that the Rams would not watch this sort of show.

    So, if we can create a reasonably rich non-violent atmosphere for them to exist in, we can conclude that they were not influenced in any way by the sorts of movies that influenced the note. So, let's give it a go.
     
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  3. twilight

    twilight Inactive

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    Sleepless in Seatle (1993)

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108160/

    Plot Outline: A recently-widowed man's son calls a radio talk show in an attempt to find his father a partner

    There is death in this movie, but it's minor.
     
  4. bensmom98

    bensmom98 Former Member

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    Twilight-

    Why can't they be funny?
     
  5. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Former Member

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    But Bro Moon had one, you'll all remember I'm sure. The Prime of Miss Jean Brody? Anybody want to tell what that was about? Only kids would watch the ones that were quoted? Not necessarily so.
     
  6. twilight

    twilight Inactive

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    Bensmom98 - Ruthless People - where the majority of the lines were lifted from is a Bette Midler comedy. BlueCrab posted that only young kids would watch these types of movies. Therefore comedies are out. Technically, there are funny bits in Sleepless as well, but...

    Eagle 1. BlueCrab is the one who is posting that the Rams would not watch these sorts of movies, so I thought let's profile who they would be if they were never exposed to 'violent' movies - there must be enough others out there to give us an idea of who they might be, right? TIC

    The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie - I tried to read the book. I kept dozing off and you've gotta know that mostly I read linguistic texts that are hardly nail-bitters for anyone but me... so maybe someone can give a little synopsis of the storyline provided it's not violent or funny.
     
  7. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    twilight,

    I didn't say the Ramseys would never watch action movies. I simply said that in regard to movies watched in a theatre it is mostly kids lined up to buy tickets, and you seldom see adults in the line. Home movies may be a different matter.

    Nevertheless, in reviewing the '98 interviews, it seems that the Ramseys seldom went to a movie theatre, but did occasionally watch movies at home. John liked old movies with Humphrey Bogart, etc., and Patsy wasn't too interested in movies at all. They put her to sleep. The kids watched lots of movies at home.

    TOM HANEY: "Do you go to the movies a lot?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "I didn't go to the movies too much. We would usually -- well, we didn't rent many movies. The kids watched a lot of movies."

    TOM HANEY: "So what I guess you are saying is the movies were mainly for the kids."

    PATSY RAMSEY: "Yeah."

    TOM HANEY: "Can you think of any you would have rented for yourself?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "Braveheart."

    TOM HANEY: "Whose choice was that?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "John. He and Burke usually go pick them out. I usually fell asleep. John loves like, The African Queen, all of the old movies."

    TOM HANEY: "How about things like Dirty Harry?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "I don't know."

    TOM HANEY: "Speed?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "I think I might have seen that on an airplane."

    TOM HANEY: "So do you put John to sleep with some of your choices?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "No, because I never picked them much. He and Burke would get them."
     
  8. twilight

    twilight Inactive

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    I guess there's not much point in pointing out that this interview was long after the Ramseys knew that the person who wrote the note was heavily influenced by movies. So, they're gonna say what - Oh, yeah, I'm a big movie buff.

    They would like you to believe they did not watch these movies, but there is evidence that they did.

    It must be kinda hard to come up with movies that are non-violent and non-funny, huh? This thread is not getting much response. Think I'll start another one.
     
  9. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah New Member

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    I'm confused as to what you are asking us to do, and for what purpose?
     
  10. twilight

    twilight Inactive

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    Well, I’ll start again. I just typed a whole long reply and then lost it searching for a URL. Anyway, the point of this thread was to define the effects of broadcast media on Patsy Ramsey’s ransom note writing ability. If she would not be affected by the type of movie depicted in the note, I asked people to supply the type of movie that she would watch.

    I warned right off that this would not be easy. The argument is that she did not watch action adventure movies like Ransom, or Ruthless People, which was also a comedy. Therefore I was curious as to what type of movie she would have watched. I suggested one – Sleepless, just to show that it could be done. But so far the response has not exactly been overwhelming.

    Yesterday, while doing some other research on a phrase, I discovered a site that suggests that entertainment events are shaping and infiltrating our language. Broadcasters and journalists pick up and disseminate creative phrases and save us the work of creating our own expressions.

    The site is fascinating and presents a list of commonly used expressions (85 in total if you scroll down) that make it hard to argue that they are not right. So, this being the case, the argument that Patsy Ramsey was exempt from this phenomenon is a hard sell. She would be just as likely to have phrases in her vocabulary and her memory cells as anyone else. The argument that only young boys, or only males, use this language does not work. We all pick up phrases from movies, whether we watch the movies or not, via broadcasters and journalists. Interesting, huh?

    I invite you to go take a look at the list of commonly used phrases. The one I was researching was ‘not a happy camper,’ because my son-in-law drew it to my attention when I used it in conversation at the dinner table on Sunday night. Where did it come from? – he asked. So, I spent several hours yesterday trying to figure it out. My kinda mystery. Anyway, I gave up when I got to:

    Trite Me
     
  11. WolfmarsGirl

    WolfmarsGirl New Member

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    How about this one?

    Hook (1991):

    Plot outline from IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102057/plotsummary

    Peter Pan (Williams) has grown up to be a cut-throat merger and acquisitions lawyer, and is married to Wendy's granddaughter. Captain Hook (Hoffman) kidnaps his children, and Peter returns to Never Land with Tinkerbell (Roberts). With the help of her and the Lost Boys, he must remember how to be Peter Pan again in order to save his children by battling with Captain Hook once again.


    Peter Pan is now a Fat Cat with kidnapped children...Hmmm...

    Certainly a family film. I am sure the Rs watched this one at least once.

    I don't remember much of the language from the film, except for the nanny who cried, "The children were screaming!," or something to that effect.
     
  12. twilight

    twilight Inactive

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    That is indeed a fine movie that I'm sure a lot of us watched, but alas, Patsy did not watch that sort of movie according to some of the posters on this forum. You see it was a kidnap movie and that's not allowed. Patsy only watched light hearted stuff. This thread is to determine if any such movies exist that she might have been able to watch. You see, even innocuous stuff like Peter Pan has elements that poor Patsy would not be able to stomach and that would ultimately polute her naivety and make her just as capable as any other adult of penning that note.

    This thread is intended to examplify the sort of movies Patsy would have been able to watch and the sort of person that would make her and the sort of note she would be able to pen.

    The argument is that the Ramsey parents did not watch the sort of movies that would contribute to their being able to pen a ransom note. They were so sheltered - apparently - that they weren't even able to read one. I'm just asking people to put their movies where their mouths are. Nicely, of course. Without sarcasm. If they didn't watch all the violent and humorous stuff the rest of us were watching - what did they watch? You see, not so easy to answer.

    If still confused - stick TIC! :cool:
     
  13. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Here's how I see the Ramsey's movie viewings:

    o John liked the oldies (Humphrey Bogart, etc.)

    o Patsy liked comedies (Chevy Chase, etc.)

    o Burke liked action (Mel Gibson, etc.)

    o JonBenet liked cartoons (Disney, etc.)

    However, according to the police interviews, John and Burke were the ones who went to Blockbuster and picked out the movies. When it was a movie appropriate for the whole family they watched it together on the big screen in the master bedroom. At other times Patsy had to watch whatever John brought home, and consequently she often fell asleep watching. Burke and JonBenet had VCR's in their respective bedrooms and watched whatever Burke brought home for the two of them from Blockbuster.
     
  14. twilight

    twilight Inactive

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    The idea was to post movies that the Rams would have watched that are not violent or funny. You yourself said they didn't watch that sort of movie. Only young boys would watch that sort of movie.

    underlining is mine.

    Teenagers? Burke was not a teenager. But you said he
    Look at your quote.

    So, let’s look at Patsy. Say for instance, the Chevy Chase comedy classic, Christmas Vacation that she said she liked - but alas, that is a violent movie with a kidnapping theme, so you probably don't want to go there.

    Now, in the same comedy genre is Ruthless People. It is also a little violent (arguably less so than Christmas Vacation) but also has a kidnapping theme. So, maybe you're right about Patsy liking that sort of funny dangerous movie - ya know the Chevy Chase type.

    If so, you need to know that a great deal of the text of the ransom note does parallel Ruthless People. Do you know where most of the differences lie? In the lines that contain distancing from the victim.

    Odd, huh?
     
  15. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    Does anybody really believe it when Patsy says that they do not watch violent movies???

    Bwaaahaaahaaa!

    Give me a break! I can almost guarantee that they rented every "popular" movie out there....AND...one movie that I know the Ramseys watched in 1996....

    "The Usual Suspects"
     
  16. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    twilight,

    I stand by my theory that a fifth person was likely in the house that night. That person was either a teen, or a young adult, or a highly intelligent and mature 10-year-old. IMO the note has young male written all over it. I think BR probably wrote it and the other young person helped with the text.

    Besides, the missing crime scene evidence didn't grow wings and fly out of the broken basement window all by itself. The roll of black duct tape; the rest of the white nylon cord; the tip of the paint brush handle; the dark-colored wipe-down cloth; the size 6 panties; the red ink pen; the stun gun; and the 9 pages from the notepad; were never found and, IMO, were taken out of the house by a non-Ramsey -- the fifth person in the house that night.

    BlueCrab
     
  17. bensmom98

    bensmom98 Former Member

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    :confused:
    So, now I am just a little confused. In PMPT, on p. 293-294, Schiller says that parts of the RN resemble lines from the movies "Dirty Harry," "Speed," and "Nick of Time." He does not mention either "Ruthless People" or "Ransom" as being possible inspirations for the phrases in the RN. Could someone please clarify this for me?
     
  18. lawman

    lawman New Member

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    great post bluecrab
    just one question regarding the size 12/14 underclothes.
    what is the source for the size ?
    i know they had the word 'wednesday" written on them but have not been able to find the size.

    lawman
     
  19. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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    Hi Lawman,
    The source is from ACR
    Case Material
    P.Ramsey 8/00 interview.
     
  20. lawman

    lawman New Member

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    thanks narlacat for the info.
    do you happen to know what on earth she was wearing them for ?

    lawman
     
  21. twilight

    twilight Inactive

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    Here's what you do. Watch the movies. That's what I did. Then transcribe the first phone call in 'Ruthless People' - I forget just exactly how far into the movie it is, but I think it's fairly close to the start. Then compare to the ransom note. You will be surprised. I know I was. Same thing with 'Ransom.' Check the phone call. (most movies do have phone calls - but the Rams knew this would be a problem) The differences are very telling to a linguist as well. I could explain the whole thing, yet again, but I don't feel like it.

    Bottom line is that for practically any member of North American culture to create a ransom note, movies are the source. The Ramseys did not live in a bubble and would have the same capabilities as you or I to accomplish this task. The fact that Patsy recognized the note as a 'kidnapping' (see 911 call) suggests that her language reserves contained the necessary phrases to make this identification.

    It is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that there are native speakers of the English language who would not immediately identify this note, containing these phrases, as a ransom note. Ask yourself - was there a single word or phrase in the entire note that you did not understand? We all know and recognize this language whether we've seen the movies or not. And we'd all probably use variations of this sort of language if we were creating a ransom note - especially a ransom note to explain the dire danger and reasons for death of JonBenét.

    And that's what the note is - a big explanation. Killed her because ... That's what makes it unusual. Killed her because ... Kidnappers say 'send money because' ... Big difference.

    The note says:
    This is who we are ... ?? ...
    This is why we killed her ... ?? ...
    Oh yeah, could we have a little money - maybe your Xmas bonus ... ?? ... (now where have I seen kidnapping over Xmas bonuses before - oh yeah, Christmas Vacation! Schiller missed this one too, I think.)
     

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