Mr.X

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Rupert, Sep 28, 2005.

  1. Rupert

    Rupert Former Member

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    Well, I saw the Tracy Mills documentary Sunday night on Fact & Movie. I was astounded, if in fact it presents the truth. I looked up the previous thread and think this should be revived.

    1. Helgoth was obviously murdered. The crime photo shows his gun to the right while the shot was from the left and the shot was through a pillow used as a silencer.

    2. In the photo was a stun gun and hi-tech boots with the same mud markings stated as in the Ramsey cellar.

    3. A couple of interviews, not just with Kenady, stated that Helgoth and his pal were into Ninja and stalked. There were a number of break-ins near the Ramseys with little taken and later one where the intruder wore dark clothing like a Ninja. The Ransom Note led everyone to think that it must be someone close to the family, if not within the family. But if you're a Ninja and visited that home many times, then you could have learned alot about the family, and wrote that note. That would explain alot of things.

    Let's see, Ninja, Japanese, German, Nazi, Nietzche, Leopold & Loeb.

    Regardless of JonBenet, who murdered Helgoth? Was it Mr.X? Or was it another Mr.Y? Did they really check out Mr.X? Where there's smoke, there's fire.
     
  2. Becba

    Becba Former Member

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    This has never sat right with me. Is it a frame? Is it intentional to have connection to the JonBenet case? Is it accidental to have clues left connecting him to the murder?

    If it was a frame up to cast blame, someone had to be hired to do it.

    If it was intentional to have these clues left than it was the killer of JonBenet that killed him.

    If it was accidental, it was someone in on the murder that killed him and wanted to shut him up.
     
  3. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Becba,

    Neither Helgoth, nor Mr. X, nor anyone else who is not a Ramsey family member killed JonBenet. The Ramseys wouldn't be lying, obfuscating, refusing to cooperate with the investigation and covering up, to protect anyone but a Ramsey.

    BlueCrab
     
  4. Rupert

    Rupert Former Member

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    This never sat right with me too. However, the photo of Helgoth with the stun gun and hi-tech boots on the documentary does not seem to look like a frame up. Those articles seem to be incidental in the photo.

    Also, if it was an intruder killer, he might not have worried about leaving the stun gun and hi-tech boots because I don't think the stun gun and hi-tech boots were public knowledge then. If they were public knowlwdge or known by certain insiders, then those coincidences would really bother me.
     
  5. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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    There was a poster on here not so long back, I forget his name but you will find his posts if you go back through the threads...he claimed to live in Boulder and to have known Helgoth. They weren't close friends but moved in the same circles.
    He said he did commit suicide and was heart broken over some girl who had broken up with him on Valetines Day....or something like that.
    He was talking about that show also saying it contained alot of untruths....
    Sorry I cant remember properly but if you look you will find his posts.
     
  6. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Active Member

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    This person posted here? Can you refresh my memory?

    Everyone may want to check out these previous threads, as they contain some very interesting info.

    http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10219&highlight=Gigax

    http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9535&highlight=Gigax
     
  7. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    His name was Michael Cook. For some reason, he seems to have gotten himself banned!
     
  8. Rupert

    Rupert Former Member

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    JonBenet died December 26, 1996.
    Helgoth died near Valentines Day February 14, 1997 (only 1 1/2 months later).
    Police photo of Helgoth indicates Hi-tech boots and stun gun.

    Surely the Hi-tech boot prints and stun gun were not public knowledge yet. The stun gun thing was not even raised internally until Lou Smit came on the scene. So, I don't think the stun gun and Hi-tech boots were a plant by anyone. Please correct me if I am wrong with the timeline.

    Regardless of whether or not Helgoth's death was a suicide or how much you believe Tracy's documentary was a "crock", the photo of Helgoth which includes two coincidental items related to the JonBenet case cannot be ignored.

    I understand that the BPD ruled the Helgoth death as suicide. The photo which shows the gun lying to his right while he was shot through a pillow from the left suggests to me otherwise.
     
  9. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Rupert,

    DNA taken from Helgoth's Hi-Tec boots did not match the foreign male DNA taken from JonBenet.
     
  10. Camper

    Camper New Member

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    [QUOTED FROM NEHEMIAHS LINK] #1
    [​IMG] 07-20-2004, 04:09 PM
    Tricia [​IMG] vbmenu_register("postmenu_287347", true);
    Administrator
    Join Date: Sep 2003
    Posts: 1,481


    Just Spoke with Mr. Gigax. He is 100 percent Innocent.
    I just got off the phone with Mr. Gigax. He asked me to convey to you that he is absolutely innocent of this crime. He has positive proof that he left Boulder in Sept. of 1996 and he has a ton of proof that on the night in question he was with a houseful of people.

    Mr. Gigax spoke with Ramsey D.A. investigator Tom Bennett. Bennett told Mr. Gigax that he is NOT a suspect and never WAS A SUSPECT.

    I asked Mr. Gigax directly if he was angry with FFJ for posting the document that Tracey showed on camera therefore posting his name. He said at first he was but he is over it now. He is angry with Tracey.

    Mr. Gigax is also very angry at the person who killed JonBenet Ramsey. He said, " I want to see that bastard fry."

    Mr. Gigax admitted he is not a choir boy. I told him we are not talking about his past. His past does not enter into this situation. We are talking about the Ramsey case which he knows nothing about.

    In the coming weeks we should have more on this story. Hopefully Tracey will be exposed to the world as the liar he is. He needs to be stopped.

    I would encourage all members of WS to post their thoughts and support of Mr. Gigax here. I think it would be appropriate to let him knowm, that the world knows, he had nothing to do with the death of JonBenet Ramsey.

    Tricia
    __________________
    tgrif@xmission.com
    Snail Mail:
    Websleuths C/O Tricia Griffith
    P.O. Box 682453
    Park City UT
    84068
    [END OF QUOTE FROM NEHEMIAHS LINK]

    ===============================

    ===============================This should settle 'today's wonderment of posters.

    IF IF all of this wonderment were factual then:

    1. Would Lou Smit just give up on such information IF IF it were true, I don't think so. Lou earned his title of FOX.

    2. WHO wrote the ransom note, and just how literate were all of those people in the Tracy documentary. Would any of them have known French, and the accent mark, er even what an attache case was? I would have suspected that the writer of the ransom note would have requested the money be delivered in a plastic grocery sack or a brown paper bag. Does $118,000.00 divide evenly amongst HOW many of em in their 'faction'.
    Maybe Tracy is still trying to figure out how many of em were involved, and how the money would have been divided IF they had gotten any, instead of ZIP $$.

    3. There should have been handwriting samples aplenty to compare with the note, er maybe they did not know how to write with a pen. Somehow I think IF the group involved did it, they would have had enough folks to cut out letters from magazines and made the ransom note short and sweet and rather
    'traditional', as ransom notes go.

    4. In the movie Ransom as I recall there was NO NOTE, it was a phone call!

    5. OH, that there had been a phone call when JonBenet was TAKEN out of the house, oops wait a minute she was NOT taken out of the house.


    .
     
  11. Rupert

    Rupert Former Member

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    From his boots? Whatever. I know Helgoth's DNA was no match so IF Helgoth was involved, he must have had an accomplice with the right DNA. The accomplice thing fits with the pillow.

    Furthermore the Ninja thing fits totally with the RN.

    I even came across an SBtC while surfing Ninja, but I think it was later than 1996.
     
  12. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    There is no evidence to connect Michael Helgoth to the Ramsey crime scene. Hi-Tec boots were common enough. The stungun found beside Helgoth's body was not the kind which Smit thought had been used on Jonbenet.

    There is no conclusive proof that a stungun was used on Jonbenet. The leading expert on stunguns says he does not believe a stungun was used on JonBenet. The only way that it can be proved that a stungun was used is to exhume her body and test the tissue.
     
  13. Camper

    Camper New Member

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    they ever do exhume her body, check that scarf that JR 'tucked' around her in the casket and see if any of the fibres found on her body match that.

    This would be the scarf that JonBenet had NEVER seen. Hmmm.

    Wonder where the red and black scarf actually disappeared to that had 'its' picture taken on the wet bar accidentally. I am right on the wet bar ? er, correct me if it was in a different location.


    .
     
  14. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    Yep, good sleuthing logic. Isn't that what we are here for, to logically "use" the evidence available in developing possible scenarios?
     
  15. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    Boulder should have hired Janet McReynolds to solve this crime. In her letter, if memory serves, she outlined an underlying political, sociopathic "feel" she "got" described in her.. "she deserved to die".
    118,000 (as reported by the Atlanta Constitution)children were at risk to die in Iraq because of the sanctions in place.
    John Ramsey worked for lockhead a company that supplied arms.
    Small factions were alive and well in Boulder, AIM and others,from the VERY little I understood from the rantings of Churchill,suggesting that factions weren't an oddity in that college community.
    Would a politically motivated real faction kill this child? I "sorta" doubt it, however, would a fringe sociopath with his own intent use the political climate as the "REASON" she "had to die",leaving him blameless . Isn't this how sociopaths work? Do they not build the blame on something/someone else ,always leaving them guilt free.
     
  16. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Jayelles,

    It's probably too late to exhume the body. I don't think anything would be left to examine except bones. Rule of thumb is that for average burials and average moisture conditions in the ground, putrefaction is complete after 5 years for a child and after 10 years for an adult. JonBenet's been dead for almost 9 years.
     
  17. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Former Member

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    Good thinking, imo, very interesting about the Ninja gang. I don't know anything about them. We don't know if this "Michael Cook" who knew Helgoth slightly is an okay guy or not, and we no longer have anyone at WS who lives in Boulder, correct?

    Whoever shot Helgoth certainly could have been an accomplice, or could have been someone Helgoth didn't even know, who was nervous about the threatening announcement police had just made and needed a scapegoat.

    The breakup with the girl probably had nothing to do with it, and We don't even know if it's true. Did this "Michael Cook" hear it from someone else? You suppose that could have been Helgoth's killer? But killing him would have been for some reason of his own. Some guess that Kenady pal also could have done it. Helgoth didn't seem to have very loyal friends. We're not basing anything on the coincidence that he had a certain kind of boots. There's plenty of other points to consider.

    All kinds of people have speculated that a police announcement was supposed to have made Helgoth nervous enough to kill himself, but like you said, he certainly appeared to have been suicided. By someone or ones who watched for not-really-plausible alibi "reasons" for Helgoth to kill himself.
     
  18. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    Would that be the same for an embalmed body?
     
  19. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    Michael Cook backed up previous claims that Helgoth had been depressed about the ending of a relationship and that it was no coincidence that he committed suicide on Valentine's Day.

    There was NO trace evidence to put Michael Helgoth at the Ramsey scene.

    The stungun was not the same kind of stungun suspected by Lou Smit.

    The person who pointed the finger at Helgoth was Kenady - a convicted paedophile with little credibility who ALSO stole a $50,000 cheque and some artwork when he allegedly broke into the Helgoth home to obtain the Hi-Tec boots as "evidence".

    Conspiracy theorists could rationalise a case against anyone IMO.
     
  20. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Jayelles,

    Embalming only replaces the blood in the body. Everything else decays.
     

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