MS MS - Pascagoula, WhtFem Child 45UFMS "Delta Dawn", 1-3, in Dog River off I-10, Dec'82

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by coco, Jul 24, 2005.

  1. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing it might be some bizarre religious ritual, along the same lines as the Mormon concept of being baptized for deceased non-Mormon ancestors. They're "adopting" all these kids and counting them as their own.

    I'm glad you guys are reporting this. Let me know if I can help.
     


  2. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    I’m finding several of these kids were adopted from overseas... and there is more than one Doe. :eek:
    Just one example:
    John Valentine Hope (Unknown-2005) - Find A Grave...
    It wouldn’t be so concerning if they didn’t have photos of living children attached to memorials for deceased children who are still yet to be identified. The particular photos on this boy’s don’t look to be the same child even, but I’m afraid to say, Delta Dawn looks identical to the photo they attached to hers. A lot of the others I have easily found and were just copied and pasted from MSM sources. It’s the others, unidentified ones, that concern me. But I do agree that there may be some type mental instability behind the posters. JMOO. I think it’s my opinion...it’s just so weird. Hopefully the detective can figure something out...

    Thanks for caring, as always! :)
    Right now I’m just looking to see if all these are simply victims, like you said, that they ‘adopted’ with good intentions. The first names, locations and dates have corresponded with a couple of American cases. (Busy work until we know for sure ;) )
     
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  3. Gardener1850

    Gardener1850 Timeline Guru (Still Remembering Cupcake)

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    John Valentine Hope is another real unidentified child case and one I had not heard of before. We have a thread for him here: NY - NY - Rockaway Beach, Male Child UP2688, 3-5, Disney crib sheet, Feb'05

    Those photos, which look like real photos of real kids, should NOT be on his memorial at findagrave. Doing that is very misleading and not helpful. If he had a reconstruction photo that would be one thing to post there that but those photos make it seem like they know who he was. It's obviously more than one child's photo that was used too. That's just wrong IMHO.
     
  4. Triss

    Triss Well-Known Member

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    The child in the picture does look a lot like Delta Dawn but I'm pretty sure it isn't actually her. The photo quality looks too good to be taken in the early 1980s. Just my opinion.
    Whoever made these fake Find a Grave profiles is a disgusting troll. It's so disturbing, disregarding dead people's memory like that. I wouldn't be surprised if the personal information and the photos of the couple were stolen from someone else too. I wonder if they're reading this forum.
     
  5. Goecke

    Goecke Active Member

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    I tried searching for Ericka Nothdurft and nothing came up beside the Find a Grave profile, so I highly doubt that was her real name. It wouldn't surprise me if she was an actual murder victim, though, saying that Chalk and Riggall like to use pictures of murdered children. In the pic of her holding a kitten, she looks older than 2 as well. I work in childcare and she looks 4-6 to me.

    Also, regarding the John Valentine case- It's weird they used pictures of two different kids for him. I'll try and learn how to reverse google image search so I can see if I can connect any more of these pictures to real cases.
     
  6. Goecke

    Goecke Active Member

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    I'm currently reverse image searching the pics posted. NONE of the pictures for "Ericka Nothdurft" or John Valentine turned up any results. I'm going to keep looking.
    However, I did find the pictures posted on John Valentine's page (as well as his gravestone) on this page: Hayden Jacob Riggall (2001-2005) - Find A Grave...

    Going to update this as I keep searching:
    "Asha's" picture isn't connected to any murder case from what I can see. Her picture turns up a bunch of hair styling tutorials/ideas.
    The girls on "Bella" and "Donna's" page are Kaylee and Kenlie Henderson, who were murdered by their mother in 2017: Polisen lämnade familjen – tre timmar senare hade båda döttrarna dödats i sömnen
    As we already know, "Bindi" is Sherin Mathews, "Sally" is Te'Myah Plummer and "Delores" is Bella Bond.
    "Holly" is Mariah Woods: Privacy settings
    Oddly enough, the girl on the "Kyhesha" page was referred to by her real name (just not her real last name). She's Kyhesha-Lee Joughin: Police investigate 'suspicious' death of 3yo girl
    "Laura" is Katera Baker: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-1-year-old-at-home-in-a-hot-car-police-say/
    "Susan's" pictures may have come from a stock video.
    "Theresa" is Selena Hildago-Calderon. The boy she's holding in one of the pictures was her son, who was also murdered: 'We didn't give up,' sheriff says after man indicted in Sodus double slaying
    I found sources for the images for all three girls used on "Virginia's" page. The first two showed up on Pinterest and such and I don't think they're related to anything suspicious. The third is a girl named Sadan, born to Syrian refugees outside a train station in Hungary: Babies 'Hope' and 'Shelter' born amid chaos and despair of the migrant crisis
    Courtney Herron was a real murder victim, and the name and image on her page are real: Accused murderer Henry Hammond spent the night at a party with victim
     
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  7. Gardener1850

    Gardener1850 Timeline Guru (Still Remembering Cupcake)

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    delete
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
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  8. Goecke

    Goecke Active Member

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    It looks like all of the "Ericka" pictures are from that album. It seems like these pictures were from when the person who uploaded them was a child so I'm assuming she's alive and well.
     
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  9. Gardener1850

    Gardener1850 Timeline Guru (Still Remembering Cupcake)

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    Yes, you are right. We can see the person growing up in her photos and it is clear she is alive today from her grown-up photos posted more recently. I deleted my post as I don't want to break the rules here by sleuthing an innocent person. I'm convinced that those photos were stolen and the profiles on findagrave are fake.

    MOO.
     
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  10. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Ancestry.com says there's an Ericka Nothdurft who was born in 1980 in Australia.

    FamilySearch says she was born in 1908 and died in 2007 at age 98 (maiden name Nelder) Ericka Alice Nelder (1908-2007) • FamilySearch

    From an Australian genealogical site, A Tribute to our Pioneering Ancestors Who Immigrated to Australia 1841 - 1883 - They Came, They Stayed & They Prospered. - Person Page

    "
    • George Otto Nothdurft was born in 1902 in Queensland.
    • He was the son of Johann Peter Ferdinand Nothdurft and Wilhelmina (Minnie) Weis.
    • At the age of 24 years, George Otto Nothdurft married Ericka Alice (Ricka) Nelder, daughter of James Nelder and Maria Sophia (Mary) Spies, on 22 September 1926 in Queensland. They began their married life at Haden and then moved to Coalbank with their first child in 1927 after purchasing a property there and began dairying. They had six more children l.
    • George Otto Nothdurft and Ericka Alice (Ricka) Nelder appeared on the Electoral Roll in 1930 living at Coalbank. George was a farmer.
    • George Otto Nothdurft and Ericka Alice (Ricka) Nelder appeared on the Electoral Roll in 1943 living at Coalbank. George was a farmer.
    • In February 1956 George and Ricka moved to Crow's Nest but returned to their Coalbank home
      'Hillview" in 1959. They returned to Crow's Nest in 1964 when their youngest child married where they enjoyed retired life for 17 years before George passed away.
    • George Otto Nothdurft died on 7 July 1982 in Queensland. From Ericka's funeral service sheet:- " Ricka lived on at Andrews Road until 1996 after recovering from a hip fracture her eyesight began to fail. She agreeed to leave Crow's Nest and spend some time with her second daughter before moving to live at Murgon with her daughter and spending time at Chinchilla with her oldest daughterand at Coalbank with her youngest son.
      Ricka was a shy lady with strangers, but very caring and loving with family and friends. She was well-known for her Sunday roast dinners and plum puddings. There were twenty or more in attendance almost every Sunday for linch. Granma's cooking was 'something else' - her scones, cakes, preserves, jams, etc. She also enjoyed corcheting, knitting and painting. In her later years she passed her time reading.
      During May of 2006 her health deteriorated and she became a resident of Kooltoopa. She passed away on the morning of Thursday the 8th March 2007 at the age of 98.
      Ricka is survived by four children, 32 grandchildren, 83 great grand children and 56 great great grandchldren."
     
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  11. GJKJR

    GJKJR Well-Known Member

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    Woah, I couldn't find the source for those pics posted on the Delta Dawn page before, even with the reverse image search. With that information, I'm pretty certain that, at least, that is fake. I feel like some of these profiles could still be real, though. Weird situation, I don't really know what to think.
     
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  12. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    I’m saving everything to that link I posted earlier (which can be deleted if we or Mods think it’s best). I just can’t wrap my head around people who do these things. Some of the photos are downright frightening and disturbing. The older teen girl who appears to be sitting in a mall? ! It doesn’t look like she’s aware she’s being photographed. The preteen male who looks to be sleeping, with oxygen tubes... :eek: There’s a lot of accurate information as far as dates of death and places but then some of the dates of birth, most especially, are off. Courtney and Sherin being the two I can say for sure. Courtney has a legitimate Find A Grave aside from the one these people created. Looking at the dates that some of the photos were posted, in particular Delta Dawn who has been pretty high profile, I cant believe it’s gone unnoticed until now! (I mean, I can, but wow. How many more like this might be out there?)

    The adoption aspect of several of the children bothers me. There doesn’t appear to be a pattern or similarities in the children they chose, except that most were victims of crime. I just wonder why, out of the thousands they had to choose from, they picked these.

    I don’t put anything past some people these days. And I really hope there’s nothing deeply sinister about all this. Although it’s good you caught it @Goecke !!
     
  13. Fuuro

    Fuuro spicy user

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    I don't know what the thought processes were in creating these memorials, but I agree that they are in poor taste. I recall the "mother" insinuating to be the biological parent of one of the children ("Bindi" or Sherin Mathews) the "father" added to the website. In response to the fact that the child in question appears visually to be non-white, the "mother" says that she and the "father" are actually indigenous Australians.

    I am glad that we were able to find out that "Ericka" is okay. She appears to not live in Australia but rather Germany or a Nordic country (based on other images uploaded to the aforementioned Flickr account). She probably has zero clue that her photo is being used like this.

    Both "parents" have other social media accounts in addition to Find a Grave. They seem to have a liking for death, indigenous Australian people, babies, and Michael Jackson. The "mother" has a Flickr account where there is a picture of eight different babies lined up on a sofa with no context other than the fact that it was taken about ten years ago. I don't know if she took it herself or if she found it online, but the quality of the picture suggests that it was not professionally taken.

    Edited to add:

    I found this on one of the memorials:
    "When [NAME] was born on 10 January 1990, her father, [NAME], was 37, and her mother, [NAME], was 10. She had 74 brothers and 122 sisters. She died as a teenager on 12 July 2007 in Alabama, USA."

    Yeah.



    This is extremely offensive. I don't understand what anyone would get out of doing this. I'm sorry to take this thread off topic.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
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  14. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    I’m glad you mentioned it, I had forgot yesterday, but I too wondered what this poor woman might think if she knew her childhood photos are attached to such a thing! I wish there was a way to know for certain that it is the same girl. I can’t imagine that she too would be involved in the same thing these other two are, but the entire thing is so weird I don’t know what to make of it all.

    I’m still trying to figure out why these particular children. (Not all are from Australia) I guess I can understand being fascinated with death to a certain degree, but some of these aren’t necessarily “high profile” incidents. I’d expect someone with this much of an obsession to choose ones that were well known. Then again, the fact that they didn’t speaks volumes to the level of mental... whatever we choose to call it. Thinking far enough ahead to fly just under the radar is even more disturbing, IMOO.

    I’m reminded why I don’t get involved with cases involving children :(


    **FYI: I have not heard back from the contact in Mississippi, but he hasn’t forgotten about it... so I will keep everyone updated!**
     
  15. Triss

    Triss Well-Known Member

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    Both "parents" have DOZENS of identical Facebook accounts. They also made almost a thousand other accounts for their "children" and thepictures they used for those accounts are of celebrities and murder victims.
    Sounds like someone has a lot of time on their hands. Or they're mentally challenged. Either way, I'm sure their connection to Delta Dawn isn't personal or real and that they don't have any information that could lead to identifying her.
     
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  16. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Could it be some kind of spambot run amok?
     
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  17. Paul B.

    Paul B. Well-Known Member

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    Should this discussion be moved out of Delta Dawn's thread?
     
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  18. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    I requested the mods to move our discussion to a new thread.
     
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  19. crazyrabbitlady

    crazyrabbitlady Active Member

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    I've been thinking on this case the last few hours...so much emphasis has been put on trying to see about missing children...how much emphasis has been put on trying to identify the woman (possible mother)? Not knowing what happened to her, if she jumped, was murdered, etc. There were several people who seemed to have talked to her. Truckers and people at the truck stop(?). Has anyone offered to give any more details about her? Trying to look at things from a different angle here. Being down in the south, everyone has an accent, if she wasn't from around the area (based on clothing that has been mentioned prior) the accent would of stuck out. It's been brought up multiple times that she may of ran away and no one knew she had a baby...if that were the case then someone somewhere may still have her as a missing person. Just on a whim I looked up missing women from the 1981-1983 time frame, using Caucasian/blonde hair (going off Delta Dawn) and around birthing age 15-40 and it populated over 200 missing people cases in the country. Maybe one of them could be her? I really wish we could get more information from witnesses about her...maybe that could be the clue needed....just rambling thoughts.
     
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  20. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    Would be nice to see what else witnesses might remember... It’s a little out of the norm for a young girl hiding a pregnancy/birth to, seemingly out of nowhere, discard a child this age? IMO. I would have been closer to the child’s age than the mother’s so I guess I can’t really speak to the “norm”...I’m just used to reading about young mothers making a decision like this immediately after giving birth. That makes me even more curious though - what would have spurred the woman to haphazardly risk ‘disposing of’ (unbeknown to her or otherwise) a living, breathing almost-toddler? I’m sure it’s been discussed a thousand times but doesn’t hurt to rehash possible theories ....


    JMOO
     

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