MT - James Many White Horses, 2, found dead in car trunk, Great Falls, 21 July 2008

bessie

Verified Insider
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
31,765
Reaction score
1,307
Thanks for starting this thread, Benji. The similarities are uncanny. The difference is that the Montana case has been solved. So, what can we learn from that case that would shed light on this one?
 

Samijeansg

Former Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Messages
894
Reaction score
0
Thanks for starting this thread, Benji. The similarities are uncanny. The difference is that the Montana case has been solved. So, what can we learn from that case that would shed light on this one?

Very true, maybe there is something to learn here. So sad to hear about another baby dying like this. Maybe this happens more than I even realized.
 

Benji

New Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
81
Reaction score
0
Thanks for starting this thread, Benji. The similarities are uncanny. The difference is that the Montana case has been solved. So, what can we learn from that case that would shed light on this one?

It would be interesting to know what the trunk was like after the body had been there wrapped and in plastic. What kind of bio evidence was there in comparison to Casey's car for one thing.
 

TripleA

Active Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
2,856
Reaction score
18
So for all of those who doubted that Caylee's body could have been in Casey's trunk undetected for quite some time...here you go.
 

jeannebreault

Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
399
Reaction score
0
Most interesting to me in light of Caylee Anthony case is why no strong odor of decomp like has been reported in Casey's car?
 

oceanblueeyes

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
26,446
Reaction score
43,575
GREAT FALLS, Mont. - The body of a toddler found in the trunk of his mother's car may have been there for months as she drove around town, evaded questions about him and was even arrested, police said.


The mother, Summer ManyWhiteHorses, was charged Monday with deliberate homicide. Authorities say the body of her 2-year-old son, James, was found Friday in the trunk of her car — more than six weeks after it was towed to a wrecking yard when she was arrested.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080909/ap_on_re_us/toddler_in_trunk
 

January.

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
1,499
Reaction score
32
How on earth could he go undetected for that long? Wouldn't the smell be horrid? The police officer didn't notice?? How?
 

Fuzzymuffin

Crazy Dog Lady
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
178
Reaction score
21
I grew up in Georgia but now live in Montana. I live close to Great Falls, where this happened. The weather here in Montana is different. We have had a very cool, rainy Spring and Summer. Our humidity is significantly lower than in Florida. These are contributing factors. A lot of dead animals sort of mummify here and/or the bugs deal with it from the inside out. In Georgia, and probably the same in Florida, the gases from decomposition build up in the body quickly and you have bloating then the bodies explode. Not so much in Montana. Death isn't as stinky here.

I have actually read about crimes and bodies found only 50 feet from busy sidewalks. I wish I could find the last one I read something like this about so I could post it. I think the last one I read was where the skeleton was found and all testing showed the homeless person had died only 50 feet away from a busy sidewalk.

I think most of us if we catch a whiff of decomposition really don't look closely, we just assume it is an animal, not a person.
 

zadari

Active Member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
2,092
Reaction score
9
omg that poor child .. i hope the mother or lack there of rots in hell
 

bessie

Verified Insider
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
31,765
Reaction score
1,307
How on earth could he go undetected for that long? Wouldn't the smell be horrid? The police officer didn't notice?? How?

The climate in Montana is much different than Florida. Even in late May, the temperature can be very cool. That might've delayed the decomposition and the odor. By the time odor set in, the car was in the wrecker yard. Everything in Montana is spread out, at least that's the way it seemed to me when I spent time there, so the wrecker yard might be large and the cars are relatively far apart. The odor wouldn't have been as obvious as it was in a crowded tow yard in a more highly populated and much warmer locale like Orlando.
 

Reannan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
3,898
Reaction score
321
I have a feeling that this case is going to be more complicated than first appearances may reveal. The child had autism. Autism is not a pathetic excuse for a parent to murder a child. This case does, however, deal with a Mother who had TWO children; at least one of which was high needs, and NO father in the picutre. Big sigh..... I always get frustrated with "fronts", and I have little patience for "the good old boys".
 

oceanblueeyes

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
26,446
Reaction score
43,575
When I read this story, the first thing I thought of was the theories about Caylee! This is so sad! Seems strange that this mom was able to continue driving her car around for so long with the babies body in it, and that the police didn't smell anything when they stopped her!

http://my.att.net/s/editorial.dll?p...rg=blsadstrgt&_lid=332&_lnm=tg+ne+topnews&ck=

I think this poor little baby had been dead for many months even before they arrested the mom and the car sat at the towing yard.

Poor little babies......so many never stand a chance and the ones that seem to hurt and kill them are supposed to be the very ones that is supposed to love them the most. :doh::(
 

hipmamajen

I love the friends I have gathered together on thi
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
1,199
Reaction score
2
Her aunt said: "Nobody expected this," Small said in an interview at the courthouse. "I know she gets violent, but never thought she would do this to her baby."

That just doesn't sit well with me...

That said, I think Summer ManyWhiteHorses is a very pretty name :)
 

Law_girl41

Former Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
2,096
Reaction score
0
Very sad. Although it does make me sad that the LE didnt check the trunk prior to taking it into custody...come one..I know the aunt said "why would he?" -but she was driving irratically and to me that would make me search the car and its contents.

Anyways, thanks for sharing this story with us.
 

spiritao36401

Former Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Messages
49
Reaction score
0
The climate in Montana is much different than Florida. Even in late May, the temperature can be very cool. That might've delayed the decomposition and the odor. By the time odor set in, the car was in the wrecker yard. Everything in Montana is spread out, at least that's the way it seemed to me when I spent time there, so the wrecker yard might be large and the cars are relatively far apart. The odor wouldn't have been as obvious as it was in a crowded tow yard in a more highly populated and much warmer locale like Orlando.

Hi all, I am new, but saw this posted and wanted to make a comment. I live here in Great Falls where this happened, the wrecking yard is located right next to a fence that has a restaurant on one side just being built and many workers out there. The other side of the wreck yard has a store. Believe me, people working on the restaurant did complain about smell, but on the other side of the street is a gas refinery, it stinks, so they thought it was the source of the smell.
 

bessie

Verified Insider
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
31,765
Reaction score
1,307
Hi all, I am new, but saw this posted and wanted to make a comment. I live here in Great Falls where this happened, the wrecking yard is located right next to a fence that has a restaurant on one side just being built and many workers out there. The other side of the wreck yard has a store. Believe me, people working on the restaurant did complain about smell, but on the other side of the street is a gas refinery, it stinks, so they thought it was the source of the smell.
Thanks for adding that, Spirit. Clears up that question and further convinces me that Caylee's little body was not in the trunk of that car for an extended period of time. That her body was in the trunk of her own mother's car for any amount of time is beyond horrible, but somehow I feel better knowing she wasn't there long.

In fact, I really thank the posters who brought this article to us because it puts to rest the outlandish theories that have been running through my mind.

The truth is so simple, yet so unthinkable to “normal” people, that we can’t accept it. Add to that, the family’s highly atypical behavior, and we’re all left banging our heads against that proverbial wall. We’re at such a loss that we search our imaginations for a glimpse of logic and come out with all sorts of explanations, many of them plausible.

Examining the two stories side by side, however, it’s clear to me that Casey did this by herself. (She might’ve had help with the clean up, but I don’t think she got it from her family.) There was no conspiracy, and the details, i.e., names, phone numbers, she threw around so easily were just bits of data stored in her twisted brain that she inserted where needed. None of this is new, but I wasn’t totally convinced until now. And this is how I see it.

After the big argument on the 15th, the one neighbors overheard, an enraged Casey became violent and struck Caylee, perhaps repeatedly, perhaps with a weapon. The child fell unconscious. When she couldn't revive her, she drove around aimlessly not knowing which way to turn. Who knows where or how she spent the night. After crying and screaming, she might've driven to a secluded spot near the airport and fallen asleep in her car. In the clear light of day, she assessed the situation and did what she always did, called the family for help. When no one answered, she realized that she was on her own and began looking for ways to hide her deed. The first mission was to dispose of the body. Out of sight, out of mind.

Her first thought was to bury the baby in the backyard. That’s a childish thing to do, and sinister as she might be, she’s also very much a child. She borrowed the shovel, but after digging awhile realized that she couldn't dig a hole that deep by herself. That's when, I think, she found another way to dispose of the body, probably in water somewhere. Having achieved that, the only problem that remained was creating an alibi. She bought time by avoiding her family and making up the nanny stories for her friends. She partied and behaved as if nothing were wrong. But, she had watched enough CSI to know that she had to get rid of evidence. That's probably when she started researching chloroform. Who knows where she got it, but, somehow, somewhere, she obtained some and used it to clean the car. No matter how much she tried, however, the odor wouldn’t go away. And on top of the decomp odor, the car now reeked of chloroform. Finally, she ditched it at AMSCOT with the purse inside, hoping it would be stolen and never found. And, if it were found, she’d be absolved of blame. Evidence would’ve been contaminated, and the thief would’ve unwittingly become her exculpatory agent.

GA didn't notice anything on the 24th because he didn't open the trunk on the 24th. The whole story he told to Greta was a false alibi, as if to say that there couldn't have been a body in the car because he didn't smell or see anything unusual. I don't think he had a hand in the crime beyond telling that lie.

Only one mystery remains, and I pray we know the answer soon. Where did she leave Caylee's little body?

Edited to add: Regarding GA's statement that he saw CA and Caylee on the 16th, he might've lied about that, too. I don't know. My point is that I don't believe GA was an accomplice except in trying to provide an alibi after CA's arrest.
 

gibby207

Pooh just is.
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Messages
6,799
Reaction score
13
I grew up in Georgia but now live in Montana. I live close to Great Falls, where this happened. The weather here in Montana is different. We have had a very cool, rainy Spring and Summer. Our humidity is significantly lower than in Florida. These are contributing factors. A lot of dead animals sort of mummify here and/or the bugs deal with it from the inside out. In Georgia, and probably the same in Florida, the gases from decomposition build up in the body quickly and you have bloating then the bodies explode. Not so much in Montana. Death isn't as stinky here.

I have actually read about crimes and bodies found only 50 feet from busy sidewalks. I wish I could find the last one I read something like this about so I could post it. I think the last one I read was where the skeleton was found and all testing showed the homeless person had died only 50 feet away from a busy sidewalk.

I think most of us if we catch a whiff of decomposition really don't look closely, we just assume it is an animal, not a person.

WARNING GRAPHIC!:

I agree with your post. I am in WA but frequently in MT and the weather there is very arid. I have smelled decomp from animal AND person, and while there is a difference (not much per se) the weather in MT, especially that part of MT, makes decomposition a slower process. I am no forensic scientist, but it only takes a layperson to see the evidence in animals in each state. I am originally from IA but live in WA now and there is a vast difference in decomposition in "roadkill." Now, this isn't taking into consideration the water/gator aspect of it all either. There are rivers/lakes in MT but the water is very cool, and decomp can last for a long time. Ever seen a dead trout in a cool MT river? Now compare to a dead fish in a hot and humid FL river? Weather patterns differ greatly between these 2 parts of the country, but the story was compelling nonetheless.
 

lilllbird

New Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
68
Reaction score
0
Her aunt said: "Nobody expected this," Small said in an interview at the courthouse. "I know she gets violent, but never thought she would do this to her baby."

That just doesn't sit well with me...

That said, I think Summer ManyWhiteHorses is a very pretty name :)

Wow. And nobody expected this?
 
Top