My crazy theory...

[Jillybeans82]

Hello All! This is my first time posting on any forum about Jonbenet but I've been studying this case for years. I was in high school when this happened and I can still remember my shock and horror that this precious child was killed on Christmas. Now that I have children of my own, I look back at some of the interviews done by the Ramsey's and I can't understand their lack of emotion and, even more telling, their constant defense of themselves. Furthermore, I have had a very traumatic loss on a young person in my family and no one, I mean no one, in my family acted like they did. The medication excuse doesn't fly with me because I was also put on heavy medication and I still grieved. At the very least, I cried, I talked about my loved one that I lost suddenly, and I couldn't hear his name without breaking down for at least a year. I know people grieve differently, but these people seemed almost aloof, almost disassociated from what happened. Furthermore, I have heard that there may be a lot of evidence not released to the public. I don't think we truly know everything (not even close) having to do with this case and some of what we think we know is probably not correct.
Anyway, I would like to give my amateur theory and I would like to know what you all think. So, here goes...
#1- I believe Patsy is solely responsible for this murder. I do not believe it was an accident. I think it was premeditated murder perpetrated by a very sick person who was having delusions/psychosis. I think she had decided to send JB off to heaven on Christmas day. I do not believe anything was staged.
#2- I believe Patsy was also responsible for the present and past vaginal trauma. This happens more than people realize. Again, I think PR was probably very sick and having "episodes". Remember PR was hospitalized a couple of years before this due to psychological issues.
#3- John only realized what was going on when Patsy gave him the note. It was a coded, secret message to John. It displayed her contempt towards him and some inside messages, or hints, that we will never understand. John only kept with the charade in order to protect his mentally ill wife who he had neglected to find help for. Remember he always claimed that he felt responsible for the death. *Also, there is an older post on WS about all the similarities in the letter and in Patsy's favorite book, The Prime of Mrs. Jean Brodie. This is what actually started me researching this theory. (ex: She fed JB "happiness" before her death- "happiness" in the book is pineapples in cream)
#4- Remember the sign off Victory! S.B.T.C? I believe Patsy thought she now had victory over John, or perhaps over death itself. She had managed to send JB to heaven so that she will live on forever and will be with PR when she eventually succumbs to cancer. I also believe that Patsy had already decided the four things she would bury with her child. S= scarf, B= bracelet, T= tiara, C= cross. Each one of these things had meaning to Patsy. If you look at JB's injuries, they certainly match up with SBTC: A scarf represents strangulation, a Bracelet represents the wrist bindings, a tiara represents the head bash, and the cross represents the "punctures" (I believe the coroner had identified them as punctures and not stun gun marks). I know this out there, but remember the big cross that Patsy got from the Native Americans to help heal her cancer, I believe that the measurements from the bottom of the cross to one of the arms of the cross would be a very similar measurement to the 3mm puncture wounds found on JB. Look at the pictures and see what you all think.

I have a lot of circumstantial evidence and solid evidence (such as Patsy's fibers in the ligature, EVERYTHING used in the murder belonged to PR, PR's signature all over the murder), however, I definitely can't fit it all here. I'm just going to include a few more things about my crazy theory that might be important:

* Remember she gave her a bracelet with her name and the date "12-25-96". I think she knew that would be her daughter's death date.
*I also believe that JB's body was posed, like an angel on the wall. The wrist ligatures fit in with this perfectly. Others have stated this before and it would make a lot of sense. I believe she was then taken down and wrapped in a blanket.
* Patsy's cancer treatments were difficult for her (obviously). She may have been suffering from psychosis as a side effect from ovarian cancer (this is a real thing). It would be sad if she had been displaying symptoms and John did nothing to help his wife. Remember he was very busy and worked a lot. Maybe she had cried out for help and no one took it seriously? Remember the housekeeper had noticed major mood swings before the time of JB's death. I think PR was having some type of mental episode, killed her daughter, then possibly came back to reality and "found" the note. Perhaps she was off of her meds during the holidays and got back on them right after? Also, think about the 911 call from their house on the 23rd. Perhaps this had something to do with PRs erratic behavior. Who knows what may have gone on at that party or in the days leading up to the murder. Maybe everyone feels a bit responsible for not helping the woman.
* Many people close to the case think PR murdered her daughter. A firm hired to do a psychological profile on Patsy says that she was having delusions and phychosis. All of this seems to be a manic, yet premeditated, religious-fueled episode. IMO.
*Patsy frequently has said things such as, "well, now she's in a better place" and "she won't have to know the pain of having cancer." These are very odd statements from the parent of a dead child. This may be her giving us her motive.
* Perhaps after her episode(?) and now on meds, she didn't even realize that she was the one who did this. Maybe she started believing her own lie that an intruder did it.
I know most people will find this theory crazy, but to me, this is the only one that fits all of the evidence. Let me know what you all think!!

 

[neesaki]

Very interesting.

 

[Tobiano8th]

Interesting... Thank you

the "she's in a better place" is textbook Christian I think

 

[Tobiano8th]

Just finished ST book... There is zero IDI evidence or close to it

 

[Fabra]

Lots of little treasures in your post, Jillybeans. I'm intrigued by the idea that the ransom note was a coded message to JR. That makes a lot of sense, actually--just as much, if not more, than any other theory out there.

John only realized what was going on when Patsy gave him the note. It was a coded, secret message to John. It displayed her contempt towards him and some inside messages, or hints, that we will never understand. John only kept with the charade in order to protect his mentally ill wife who he had neglected to find help for. Remember he always claimed that he felt responsible for the death.

And yes, the pineapple thing was always weird to me, though I could never put my finger on why. Perhaps because I'd never heard of pineapple and cream together, lol, but this makes so much sense--and another coded message.

Were her psychological issues ever elaborated upon?

So many things in your post to reflect on. Thank you for this.

 

[Tobiano8th]

SBTC............. patsy loved abreviations, apparently

2 things that are floated out there are 1) saved by the cross..2) apparently the first letters of each paragaraph (?) of psalm 35 or 36, done backwards. and this was open in the bible (JR's). seems like way too much to me, but steve thomas liked it.... subic bay training center too, but i think that's been pretty much ruled out.

 

[fr brown]

SBTC............. patsy loved abreviations, apparently

2 things that are floated out there are 1) saved by the cross..2) apparently the first letters of each paragraph (?) of Psalm 35 or 36, done backwards, and this was open in the bible (JR's). seems like way too much to me, but steve thomas liked it.... subic bay training center too, but i think that's been pretty much ruled out.

Here are a few observations that establish the beginning of Psalm 35 as the source of SBTC. Because a picture is worth a thousand words, I suggest that you look at post #403 on the FFJ thread "John Ramsey's New Book -- The Other Side of Suffering." The included photo is from my NIV Study Bible, the same Bible that was open on the 3rd floor desk in the alcove off the Ramseys' bedroom. SBTC fairly jumps out of the page. On the facing page, one can readily see a translator's comment that Psalm 34 is an acrostic psalm, ie, the first word of each line begins with a different letter of the Hebrew alphabet. The next post, #404, by questfortrue shows how the Bible lay open, the ribbon bookmark seemingly carefully draped over the page.

This Bible has almost 2000 pages. Don Foster says that "SBTC" does not occur as first letters of contiguous lines or first letters of contiguous words anywhere else in those almost-2000 pages. I searched Psalms myself until I got tired and didn't find any other instance of either CTBS or SBTC. I have no idea if SBTC meant anything to Patsy, but it's extremely unlikely that the Bible was open there by chance.

And a while ago I was skimming through DOI and found a long passage by Patsy about God steering her to a passage in Psalm 57 before her first cancer treatment. She took this passage as a promise from God that He would deliver her from cancer. I don't have a Gideon Bible, but I looked up Psalm 57 in the NIV Study Bible and found myself reading a psalm very similar to Psalm 35 all about deliverance from enemies. In particular it contained one comical literary image that was the same in both. A closer look revealed that the Psalm 57 was cross-referenced to both Psalm 35 and Psalm 34. The anecdote about God's promise as revealed in Psalm 57 was important to both Ramseys; it appears in both DOI and TOSOS.

Why would Patsy leave the Bible on John's desk ostentatiously open like that (albeit after flipping the page)? In her '98 interview, Patsy is asked a lot of questions about that open Bible. (She never asks the detectives why they're asking all these questions. She doesn't ask because she already knows.) At the beginning she acts like she's not even sure what she's looking at. Is it a Bible? This Bible was a wedding present. It sat on a desk in an alcove with a view overlooking the Flatirons. Personally, I would sit there and read it, if only for the inspiring view. But according to Patsy, she never went near this chopped-liver Bible. On the other hand, according to her John was always reading it. She could have said that both of them read it or that neither of them read it very often. Instead she distances herself from it while at the same time hanging it around his neck.

John got his own back, though. In TOSOS he says that when she was on her deathbed Patsy asked him to read something from psalms. Did he read "The Lord is my shepherd"? No! He read Psalm 34. It's a mostly hair-raising psalm that instructed Patsy that if she wanted to live a long life, she should have refrained from telling lies and speaking evil. It promises that those who have injured the righteous will suffer eternally and their memories will be erased from the earth. By the end of the psalm, Patsy was weeping, we're told. No surprise there.

 

[Jillybeans82]

Here are a few observations that establish the beginning of Psalm 35 as the source of SBTC. Because a picture is worth a thousand words, I suggest that you look at post #403 on the FFJ thread "John Ramsey's New Book -- The Other Side of Suffering." The included photo is from my NIV Study Bible, the same Bible that was open on the 3rd floor desk in the alcove off the Ramseys' bedroom. SBTC fairly jumps out of the page. On the facing page, one can readily see a translator's comment that Psalm 34 is an acrostic psalm, ie, the first word of each line begins with a different letter of the Hebrew alphabet. The next post, #404, by questfortrue shows how the Bible lay open, the ribbon bookmark seemingly carefully draped over the page.

This Bible has almost 2000 pages. Don Foster says that "SBTC" does not occur as first letters of contiguous lines or first letters of contiguous words anywhere else in those almost-2000 pages. I searched Psalms myself until I got tired and didn't find any other instance of either CTBS or SBTC. I have no idea if SBTC meant anything to Patsy, but it's extremely unlikely that the Bible was open there by chance.

And a while ago I was skimming through DOI and found a long passage by Patsy about God steering her to a passage in Psalm 57 before her first cancer treatment. She took this passage as a promise from God that He would deliver her from cancer. I don't have a Gideon Bible, but I looked up Psalm 57 in the NIV Study Bible and found myself reading a psalm very similar to Psalm 35 all about deliverance from enemies. In particular it contained one comical literary image that was the same in both. A closer look revealed that the Psalm 57 was cross-referenced to both Psalm 35 and Psalm 34. The anecdote about God's promise as revealed in Psalm 57 was important to both Ramseys; it appears in both DOI and TOSOS.

Why would Patsy leave the Bible on John's desk ostentatiously open like that (albeit after flipping the page)? In her '98 interview, Patsy is asked a lot of questions about that open Bible. (She never asks the detectives why they're asking all these questions. She doesn't ask because she already knows.) At the beginning she acts like she's not even sure what she's looking at. Is it a Bible? This Bible was a wedding present. It sat on a desk in an alcove with a view overlooking the Flatirons. Personally, I would sit there and read it, if only for the inspiring view. But according to Patsy, she never went near this chopped-liver Bible. On the other hand, according to her John was always reading it. She could have said that both of them read it or that neither of them read it very often. Instead she distances herself from it while at the same time hanging it around his neck.

John got his own back, though. In TOSOS he says that when she was on her deathbed Patsy asked him to read something from psalms. Did he read "The Lord is my shepherd"? No! He read Psalm 34. It's a mostly hair-raising psalm that instructed Patsy that if she wanted to live a long life, she should have refrained from telling lies and speaking evil. It promises that those who have injured the righteous will suffer eternally and their memories will be erased from the earth. By the end of the psalm, Patsy was weeping, we're told. No surprise there.

 

[Jillybeans82]

Fr Brown...Wow! This is so interesting!!!

 

[Jillybeans82]

Lots of little treasures in your post, Jillybeans. I'm intrigued by the idea that the ransom note was a coded message to JR. That makes a lot of sense, actually--just as much, if not more, than any other theory out there.


And yes, the pineapple thing was always weird to me, though I could never put my finger on why. Perhaps because I'd never heard of pineapple and cream together, lol, but this makes so much sense--and another coded message.

Were her psychological issues ever elaborated upon?

So many things in your post to reflect on. Thank you for this.

Fabra, thank you so much! I think she had some type of mental issue in 1994 and had to be hospitalized. I'm sure the cancer and having 2 young children was taking a serious toll on her. If this theory is correct, I feel bad for the entire family that they didn't recognize it and get her more help. Poor little JBR.

 

[galleyport]

ITA. I have thought this for years. Nothing makes sense because the crime was committed by a sick illogical mind. No staging. So tragic.

 

[fr brown]

Fr Brown...Wow! This is so interesting!!!

Thanks. Don Foster, of course, discovered SBTC in Psalm 35 of the NIV Study Bible. He must have obtained a digital copy and/or gotten a hard copy of the Bible because Patsy's sister, I believe, removed the Ramsey Bible soon after the murder.

There was apparently another open book in the house: a dictionary with the page edge folded to pointing to the word "incest."

In my view Patsy wasn't sending a coded message to John unless it was "I'm going to tell them you did it." I think Patsy framed John in a clever not-too-obvious way.

 

[Fabra]

I think she had some type of mental issue in 1994 and had to be hospitalized.

Usually this means she was a threat to herself or to someone else. That's a huge red flag, if she were indeed committed previously.

ITA. I have thought this for years. Nothing makes sense because the crime was committed by a sick illogical mind. No staging. So tragic.

Unless an outsider committed the murder, the entire thing, including the ransom note, was staged. Whether you believe in staging just depends what side of the fence you're on.

 

[neesaki]

Thanks. Don Foster, of course, discovered SBTC in Psalm 35 of the NIV Study Bible. He must have obtained a digital copy and/or gotten a hard copy of the Bible because Patsy's sister, I believe, removed the Ramsey Bible soon after the murder.

There was apparently another open book in the house: a dictionary with the page edge folded to pointing to the word "incest."

In my view Patsy wasn't sending a coded message to John unless it was "I'm going to tell them you did it." I think Patsy framed John in a clever not-too-obvious way.

Omg, this makes so much sense to me. It would explain everything, imo.

 

[fr brown]

Omg, this makes so much sense to me. It would explain everything, imo.

I think so. It even explains the flashlight. Why wipe it down, including the batteries, and leave it in plain sight on the counter? (Even the drawer where it usually lived was hanging open.) Why not just put it back in its drawer? Chances are the police wouldn't give it a second look. Why wipe the batteries? Ramsey fingerprints on a Ramsey flashlight aren't incriminating.

When Patsy's asked about the flashlight she says that she doesn't use it and doesn't change the batteries because it isn't her "thing." But John, she says, uses it to look in the car and under the car.

An intruder wouldn't bother to wipe down the batteries and Patsy wouldn't have wiped the batteries because her fingerprints couldn't be on them--according to her. That leaves John. The flashlight incriminates him, but not in a way that would be obvious to him that morning.

 

[887sMtreme]

Your theory doesn't sound crazy to me at all. There are many interesting features to it.

 

[retrometro]

This theory makes a lot of sense to me. I've been leaning in the direction of PDI for a while now, and this scenario would explain a lot of strange details, like the pineapple and the ransom note. It would also be consistent with the idea John slept through the night and wasn't involved in the murder itself, and it might also explain why Burke seems so weird in interviews. (Most kids can pick up on family secrets and it's possible that his awkwardness reflects the fact that he grew up knowing his parents were hiding something from him).

To add to the theory, I've previously wondered if Patsy or John had a prescription for Ambien or easy access to someone else's prescription. Given Patsy's medical history and John's grief from Elizabeth's death a few years earlier, it would make sense if either or both of them had been prescribed it at some point. (According to Wikipedia, Ambien entered the U.S. pharmaceutical market in 1992). One of Ambien's now well-known side effects is that it can cause people to do bizarre things while "asleep." It tends to lower people's inhibitions and leaves them with only fuzzy memories of what happened. So yes, I agree it's possible that Patsy committed the crime but doesn't remember doing it, at least clearly. It might also explain why John didn't turn on her once he realized what happened.

 

[UKGuy]

I think so. It even explains the flashlight. Why wipe it down, including the batteries, and leave it in plain sight on the counter? (Even the drawer where it usually lived was hanging open.) Why not just put it back in its drawer? Chances are the police wouldn't give it a second look. Why wipe the batteries? Ramsey fingerprints on a Ramsey flashlight aren't incriminating.

When Patsy's asked about the flashlight she says that she doesn't use it and doesn't change the batteries because it isn't her "thing." But John, she says, uses it to look in the car and under the car.

An intruder wouldn't bother to wipe down the batteries and Patsy wouldn't have wiped the batteries because her fingerprints couldn't be on them--according to her. That leaves John. The flashlight incriminates him, but not in a way that would be obvious to him that morning.

fr brown,
The flashlight was likely used by the person(s) who staged JonBenet in the wine-cellar. In Dr Phil's interview with Burke he mentions John saying he put Burke to bed using the flashlight as a guide, but nothing is said about how the flashlight arrived back downstairs, never mind on the counter.

IMO: I looks like cleaning the flashlight was an after the fact task. The batteries only need wiped if you have an OMG moment, because you remember you changed the batteries, probably because they ran out mid-staging?

The main question is who was the cleaner , you have three options?

Really only two if you think John is covering for someone else as he admits handling it around the time JonBenet was killed!

John does not need to worry about Patsy as she is deceased, so that leaves Burke?

The thing is that flashlight might have caused JonBenet's head trauma, it might have been used in a bedroom with the lights out, from memory JonBenet's main bedroom light was out of action?

.

 

[UKGuy]

Hello All! This is my first time posting on any forum about Jonbenet but I've been studying this case for years. I was in high school when this happened and I can still remember my shock and horror that this precious child was killed on Christmas. Now that I have children of my own, I look back at some of the interviews done by the Ramsey's and I can't understand their lack of emotion and, even more telling, their constant defense of themselves. Furthermore, I have had a very traumatic loss on a young person in my family and no one, I mean no one, in my family acted like they did. The medication excuse doesn't fly with me because I was also put on heavy medication and I still grieved. At the very least, I cried, I talked about my loved one that I lost suddenly, and I couldn't hear his name without breaking down for at least a year. I know people grieve differently, but these people seemed almost aloof, almost disassociated from what happened. Furthermore, I have heard that there may be a lot of evidence not released to the public. I don't think we truly know everything (not even close) having to do with this case and some of what we think we know is probably not correct.
Anyway, I would like to give my amateur theory and I would like to know what you all think. So, here goes...
#1- I believe Patsy is solely responsible for this murder. I do not believe it was an accident. I think it was premeditated murder perpetrated by a very sick person who was having delusions/psychosis. I think she had decided to send JB off to heaven on Christmas day. I do not believe anything was staged.
#2- I believe Patsy was also responsible for the present and past vaginal trauma. This happens more than people realize. Again, I think PR was probably very sick and having "episodes". Remember PR was hospitalized a couple of years before this due to psychological issues.
#3- John only realized what was going on when Patsy gave him the note. It was a coded, secret message to John. It displayed her contempt towards him and some inside messages, or hints, that we will never understand. John only kept with the charade in order to protect his mentally ill wife who he had neglected to find help for. Remember he always claimed that he felt responsible for the death. *Also, there is an older post on WS about all the similarities in the letter and in Patsy's favorite book, The Prime of Mrs. Jean Brodie. This is what actually started me researching this theory. (ex: She fed JB "happiness" before her death- "happiness" in the book is pineapples in cream)
#4- Remember the sign off Victory! S.B.T.C? I believe Patsy thought she now had victory over John, or perhaps over death itself. She had managed to send JB to heaven so that she will live on forever and will be with PR when she eventually succumbs to cancer. I also believe that Patsy had already decided the four things she would bury with her child. S= scarf, B= bracelet, T= tiara, C= cross. Each one of these things had meaning to Patsy. If you look at JB's injuries, they certainly match up with SBTC: A scarf represents strangulation, a Bracelet represents the wrist bindings, a tiara represents the head bash, and the cross represents the "punctures" (I believe the coroner had identified them as punctures and not stun gun marks). I know this out there, but remember the big cross that Patsy got from the Native Americans to help heal her cancer, I believe that the measurements from the bottom of the cross to one of the arms of the cross would be a very similar measurement to the 3mm puncture wounds found on JB. Look at the pictures and see what you all think.

I have a lot of circumstantial evidence and solid evidence (such as Patsy's fibers in the ligature, EVERYTHING used in the murder belonged to PR, PR's signature all over the murder), however, I definitely can't fit it all here. I'm just going to include a few more things about my crazy theory that might be important:

* Remember she gave her a bracelet with her name and the date "12-25-96". I think she knew that would be her daughter's death date.
*I also believe that JB's body was posed, like an angel on the wall. The wrist ligatures fit in with this perfectly. Others have stated this before and it would make a lot of sense. I believe she was then taken down and wrapped in a blanket.
* Patsy's cancer treatments were difficult for her (obviously). She may have been suffering from psychosis as a side effect from ovarian cancer (this is a real thing). It would be sad if she had been displaying symptoms and John did nothing to help his wife. Remember he was very busy and worked a lot. Maybe she had cried out for help and no one took it seriously? Remember the housekeeper had noticed major mood swings before the time of JB's death. I think PR was having some type of mental episode, killed her daughter, then possibly came back to reality and "found" the note. Perhaps she was off of her meds during the holidays and got back on them right after? Also, think about the 911 call from their house on the 23rd. Perhaps this had something to do with PRs erratic behavior. Who knows what may have gone on at that party or in the days leading up to the murder. Maybe everyone feels a bit responsible for not helping the woman.
* Many people close to the case think PR murdered her daughter. A firm hired to do a psychological profile on Patsy says that she was having delusions and phychosis. All of this seems to be a manic, yet premeditated, religious-fueled episode. IMO.
*Patsy frequently has said things such as, "well, now she's in a better place" and "she won't have to know the pain of having cancer." These are very odd statements from the parent of a dead child. This may be her giving us her motive.
* Perhaps after her episode(?) and now on meds, she didn't even realize that she was the one who did this. Maybe she started believing her own lie that an intruder did it.
I know most people will find this theory crazy, but to me, this is the only one that fits all of the evidence. Let me know what you all think!!

Jillybeans82,
Interesting theory, I've no doubt Patsy had mental health issues. She is sorted financially, married to a millionaire, yet she wants to groom JonBenet for a pageant career, not good at all.

The thing about the evidence implicating Patsy is, why does she leave her forensic markers all over JonBenet and the wine-cellar when the idea is to avoid detection by doing the staging?

One this is clear: The Ramsey's were a dysfunctional family, JonBenet and Burke were left to do their own thing in a large mansion with lots of rooms.

After all these years the German police seem to have found Madelaine McCann's killer, its possible we might find out who killed JonBenet,even if there is no conviction, due to time constraints?

.

 

[retrometro]

Jillybeans82,
The thing about the evidence implicating Patsy is, why does she leaeve her forensic markers all over JonBenet and the wine-cellar when the idea is to avoid detection by doing the staging?

This is why I think Jillybeans' theory is worth serious consideration. If Patsy was truly having a psychotic episode, she wouldn't have consciously tried to conceal evidence in her mentally unstable state. It would also explain the ransom note; rather than being a red herring meant to distract police, it was the work of a person with a loose grip on reality who wasn't making sense to begin with. Perhaps John tried to quickly stage the scene (e.g., the flashlight) once he realized what had happened but before police arrived. Heck, Burke says in one of his interviews that his mom was "going psycho" that morning -- it may have been a more literal expression than he knew.

I think it could also account for why John didn't turn on Patsy, which some people here have hypothesized that he would have if he suspected her of the crime but was not involved in the murder itself. It may have been that he could dissociate the "real" Patsy from the psychotic Patsy who committed the crimes. It may have been that after losing two daughters, the idea of locking up his mentally ill wife while knowing that she was Stage 4 cancer survivor was too much for him to handle. As usual, MOO.